Worried about the future of rF2

[Richard Eriksson]

As the topic suggests...

As a long time ISI supporter and follower, i am now feeling a bit worried for the future.The number of new users coming in to rFactor2 seems to be dwindling.

Also there is a long time between the new official content. And even when there is official content released, it seems to fail to gather an interest (Civics in December) amongst the yet unitiated.

Also, the mod community seems a lot more reluctant than for rF1, with very few members adding content.This is even more worrying as it was the foundation of rF1 and a big selling point for bringing more people to the franchise (race anything you like).

ISI now also faces a stiff competition as the "sim" genre has become "hot" again with more titles in the works, that seem to gather a LOT more interest: AC, pCars etc.

The old veterans like myself are finding ourselves drawn to the likes of GSC, and newcomers are moving towards AC and probably DTM Experience.


I start this topic to see if someone shares my worries, and also to discuss if something can be done to once again bring more interest to rF2?


My personal idea is to go for Steam greenlighting (i actually REALLY like Steam as a platform), to gain exposure and also simplify the purchasing as well as updating.
Connecting it to Workshop makes modding interesting again, like what AC proposes.


I want rF2 to succeed, it is by far the most comprehensive take on simulating the actual race mechanics and based on that it should be the goto title for the serious sim-user, but right now i fear it is not.


Discussions on graphics i will however discard personally, as a) rF2 is pretty enough and b) the prettiest of settings in something like pCars is inaccesible to 95% of users.


So, what is your view of the status of the product?



Points of improvement needed going forward as identified in this thread so far:

* Better GUI (incoming)
* Steam integration and release
* Possible new distribution method that would automate updates and sync, if not steam
* New official content
* More transparent development
* Shorter build intervals
* More efficient code and optimization of codebase
* A possibility to "lock down" the core functionality, to deliver something considered stable and final
* New updater that allows automatic updating of content as well, including adding NEW
content

 

[Richard Eriksson]

Another thing that dawned on me... I wonder how many of the points we keep coming back to that are in fact related to the fact that most of the codebase is still rF1/gMotor2?

As far as i understand it, most of the codebase for AC is entirerly new (as in not from nK).

Including online parts, steam integration and rendering pipeline. As well as physics (that are "derived" but very much modernized, as i understand it).

In rF2's case it indeed seems that it is just an expansion of rF1, much like GSC2013 is.

Could this be the cause of some issues and would it have been better for ISI to scratch-write a new gMotor3? I think so...

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

Hi
The above post is what I am thinking of this sim ...rf2 unfriendly and stiff....
if you have some time off and want to do some racing with Fellow racers in multiplayer..
....you have to download mods install cars download tracks...and the rigth versions by the way..
....when you get to the racing part....they are all gone.. NeXT time evrything have to be upgraded...
its a fun killer...
Stig Bidstrup

You have to download mods in race07, rFactor etc as well. Of course ISI could have built some kind of autodownloader for their own cars/tracks, but 3rd party mods have to be downloaded manually anyways, so don't think it makes much sense. You can also download ISI content automatically when joining servers, and also other content if the mod is set up properly.

Regarding gMotor3, it would probably have been a better decision with hindsight. But at this point in the development cycle I would find it a small miracle if they decided to scratch build a new engine. All I am expecting is some optimizations to existing engine. Although that hasn't happened either. The performance is basically same as it was a year ago, so not sure there is much more to squeeze out of it.

 

[RaceNut]

Another thing that dawned on me... I wonder how many of the points we keep coming back to that are in fact related to the fact that most of the codebase is still rF1/gMotor2?

As far as i understand it, most of the codebase for AC is entirerly new (as in not from nK).

Including online parts, steam integration and rendering pipeline. As well as physics (that are "derived" but very much modernized, as i understand it).

In rF2's case it indeed seems that it is just an expansion of rF1, much like GSC2013 is.

Could this be the cause of some issues and would it have been better for ISI to scratch-write a new gMotor3? I think so...

I think you make a good point and it touches upon how I feel about the two titles at this time.

Kunos has embraced the latest trends in terms of communication, inclusion of new players, broader access, and a fresh approach to Sim development. That also attracts more new players and ultimately should result in greater financial success. I would sum it up as saying that Kunos is doing better at adapting to and anticipating changes in game development. How that plays out remains to be seen but, it is interesting to follow.

When speaking to the issue of "Financial Success", I do not necessarily mean just "Profit" but, "Survival" as a game developer in a tough, demanding market.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Points of improvement needed going forward as identified in this thread so far:

* Better GUI (incoming)
* Steam integration and release
* Possible new distribution method that would automate updates and sync, if not steam
* New official content
* More transparent development
* Shorter build intervals
* More efficient code and optimization of codebase
* A possibility to "lock down" the core functionality, to deliver something considered stable and final

From my perspective it comes down the last point not being a possibility but a necessity - fulfilled by all other points.

WIthout that, the Modding Community will look to other products that can deliver a product with locked down core functionality.

And without the Modding Community support, rFactor2 will go stale based on the pace of it's current release history, wither, and fade away.

 

[Tim Meuris]

indeed Racenut,

What's so smart about Kunos' approach is, next to their excellent communication,
they have gave us a very clear developmentpath which they tried to follow to the letter
There were cars that were ready long before 0.7 but they didn't gave them yet
they always released little bits of the game to keep us happy
and we are! a new car, a new track, smart!
if they gave us already from 0.1 every track and car that was finished
we would be even moaning harder about MP than we do now

 

[David Wright]

Rf2 is something of an enigma. It has all the things I miss in RF1 which were in GTR2 - driver and pitcrew animations, rain, livetrack. It has licensed content instead of Rhez's and ZRs. It has historic content such as the BT20 and Spa/Monaco. It should be my perfect sim.

But the demo ran at just 30 fps on my ATI graphics card with one car and all details on their lowest setting. Shift runs comfortably at 60 fps with 16 cars on track and looking so much better than RF2 on its lowest settings. The default setup for the Corvette was dreadful - hardly any force feedback and very difficult on the limit handling. A better setup fixed both FFB and made the handling more like the forgiving Corvette in say GTR Evo,

Steam would potentially expose rF2 to a wider audience but you have to ask why rF1 customers haven't switched. GR2 killed GTR stone dead immediately as NR2003 killed NR2002. Why hasn't rF2 killed rF1? I guess its partly the poor optimisation plus the protracted beta development phase.

 

[Simon Christmann]

From the driving experience i totally agree with Frederic. I like that you get a little disadvantage from missing the line or stressing the tires to much .

That you always have to search for new content version is not ISI's fault. If many admins don't build immediately new vmods you wont have less problems. Some do it nice and put a link to car and track on their homepage.

That ISI has such a bad communication is unbelievable. Its hard to do it worse
It would be nice to see something like a time schedule even if they need to change it from time to time.

The positive side is that i have never seen a wrecker

 

[RaceNut]

indeed Racenut,

What's so smart about Kunos' approach is, next to their excellent communication,
they have gave us a very clear developmentpath which they tried to follow to the letter
There were cars that were ready long before 0.7 but they didn't gave them yet
they always released little bits of the game to keep us happy
and we are! a new car, a new track, smart!
if they gave us already from 0.1 every track and car that was finished
we would be even moaning harder about MP than we do now

Yeah, that's it - If I have one-word to describe KS approach thus far - it's "Smart". Not stellar perfect but, smart.

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

From my perspective it comes down the last point not being a possibility but a necessity - fulfilled by all other points.

WIthout that, the Moddding Community will look to other products that can deliver a product with locked down core functionality.

And without the Modding Community support, rFactor2 will go stale based on the pace of it's current release history, wither, and fade away.

It's a fact however that modern indie games/simulators are not developed to a final release version, it's all about early access and incremental development nowadays to get small projects financed. As I said few posts above, mods/tracks released a year ago work perfectly with current version of rF2, so it's mainly an excuse for community to not create content. Some new physics features have been added such as flexi chassis but the core driving on existing mods hasn't changed at all since last summer. If ISI changed physics massively they would even have to update their own old mods, and they do it very seldom.

AC is being an exception in that they mention a version 1.0, but AC 1.0 will supposedly not have pit stops and a bunch of other features which will arrive in DLC, so I don't see how it is any more final than rF2 currently is.

 

[Stig Bidstrup]

Hi

all this comes Down to Money and Money....imagine that the simracing developers had the same
kind of Money....as they have in lets say Battlefield 3 and 4....that would be a dream scenario...for us
...imagine the amount of servers..imagine the amount of finished content coming out with 6 month intervals
.....but we are not so many......a looot more runs around in camoflage....

Stig Bidstrup

 

[Lou Sytsma]

As I said few posts above, mods/tracks released a year ago work perfectly with current version of rF2,

And the current version remains non-optimized and runs sluggishly. The product can remain open for expansion but the core of it must be optimized for it not only to thrive but just for it to survive.

 

[Richard Eriksson]

New content finally delivered... The choice is interesting. Choosing a roadcar indicates a "slight" spying on AC going on i suppose... Because a road car is not really what i expected.

 

[Rupe Wilson]

Well there is a Panoz in the picture i think. So why not the road car,
and were still waiting for the kart and the muscle cars as well as the other Panoz

I cant wait for the next one.. They have defiantly made big improvement since the start of the year. Still lots to do but it is getting better and i'm looking forward to what ever else they can give us.
cant forget the Cobra 427 we saw also

plus the modding community is getting there mods out now, its taken a while but its coming along nicely

 

[Matej Lakota]

Since last update ... i don˙t know ... with same graphic setup I˙ve got much better sharpness, live colors and (compared to some month ago) unexpected performance. And when this morning I tried LeMans with Lola ...

... I really like this game more and more and I agree with Rupe, just wait and see.

 

[Gijs van Elderen]

Here is a video of a club event: a good looking car at a good looking track. And it is not havy on graphics.

 

[Richard Eriksson]

Well, as far graphic fidelity, i said it before and i still think the complaints are not called for... It looks good.

Still more work to do with the core optimization however. And a lot of work in packaging the product better, streamlining the experience both online and offline.

I am still worried, obviously, but if it's one thing the new Panoz does show off it would be that ISI is still unrivalled in physics simulation. This strength is, as i have also stated earlier, what needs to be better packaged and distributed. And better optimized.

And i still contend the point that locking down the core code soon, to build on the rest, would be a good move.

 

[Ricardo Edelmann]

Thank you @Gijs van Elderen for spreading this Video But you said it is not heavy on graphics... it is... i have a FX8350 @ 4.2 GHz and 2 GTX660ti SLI and sometimes i only have about 27 fps... and rFactor 2 is still Missing some Major Plugins for Spectators... like Live Timing, fast carswitching etc...
I think there's a lot of work to do....

 

[Gijs van Elderen]

Lol, i have 2 GTX660 ti's in SLI on tripple screens.
I have to sacrifice some graphic settings. But with the new build everything is running more stable and it is like @Matej Lakota said, looking better with the same graphic settings. There is still work to do, but that counts for AC, Iracing, RRRE too. But on other subjects.

BTW: the new Panoz:

 

[Ricardo Edelmann]

maybe it's better now after the update... we'll see... but it still isn't as pretty as a game nowadays can be

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

Just linking in case someone has missed, this game will get a new, proper UI once the FSR season starts. It's frustrating that packaging, UI and 3-screen performance are such letdowns in otherwise fantastic product. But we are getting there slowly...