Cars [WIP] Caterham

[AccAkut]

Friend has a Caterham R400 with wide track suspension, would that be of help?

 

[Ben O'Bro]

Friend has a Caterham R400 with wide track suspension, would that be of help?

Heeey, that will be helpful when the time comes to model it )

I found a really helpful tutorial about suspension, with a nice script for the LookAt constraint in 3dsmax

so thanks a lot to that guy

and so far here is how it looks
to that stage i'm just too scared to import it to the editor to see it going all wrong. So for today i'll stop here and enjoy the little success.

I read that the movement in 3ds isn't what you will get in the game. Which is good, because truly here i simply moved the dummy up and down, but this is not how it would be in real life, and you can see in the gif how the bottom triangle exits its hinge.
I guess it would require more complete/complex constraint within 3ds, what do you guys think ?

 

[AccAkut]

I guess it would require more complete/complex constraint within 3ds, what do you guys think ?

Constrains won't get imported into the KS Editor, all it loads are Dummies and associated keyframes. Which you should be able to create with those Constrains in the 3DS, I guess. I only use Blender.

 

[NightEye87]

Yup, only the keyframes get used. If that bottom A frame really bugs you, you might want to consider animating the whole thing by rotating the dummy that's at the hinge there. It might need a redesign of your IK rig, but that way it will allow you to have everything sit in their place and animate correctly.

It looks great by the way

 

[garyjpaterson]

Yep, the DIR_ thing is awesome, I learnt it watching the same video some time ago. As you say, if the real suspension geometry in the physics matches your model close enough, the the travel range is properly limited, it should all look fine and work well.

Also, just in case you didn't know, with this system you should set USE_ANIMATED_SUSPENSIONS= to 0, as this system is not really animated.

Looks brilliant btw, I just love detailed modelling of the mechanical bits!

 

[AccAkut]

Yep, the DIR_ thing is awesome, I learnt it watching the same video some time ago. As you say, if the real suspension geometry in the physics matches your model close enough, the the travel range is properly limited, it should all look fine and work well.

Also, just in case you didn't know, with this system you should set USE_ANIMATED_SUSPENSIONS= to 0, as this system is not really animated.

Looks brilliant btw, I just love detailed modelling of the mechanical bits!

Do you know if its possible to combine both systems? I tried setting up my front steering arms according to the pipeline ("STEERING_ARM" empty on the wheel hub, "DIR_STEERING_ARM" empty pointed at it with the steering arm parented to it) So far I have been unsuccessful in making it work, but the DIR_STEERING_ARM does have its own keyframes to follow the up/down movement.

Sorry for the OT

 

[Ben O'Bro]

no worries for the OT
i will be interested in that aspect soon as well...
i mean if i understood it correctly: How will the steering arm deal with the suspension animation, and steering animation at the same time

in the meantime, and to delay a little the hassle of suspension animation ingame
i redid the textures, fixed a little unwrap (and noticed more fixing to do...) in 4k this time
it's funny to see it different than yellow
nothing noticeable in the render, but i started combining maps for the lights, dashboards etc. just like a pro. Reducing a lot already the file size!
and i now have the skin folder working with 2 choices at the moment here is below the second choice )

 

[NightEye87]

Nice!

 

[Stereo]

i mean if i understood it correctly: How will the steering arm deal with the suspension animation, and steering animation at the same time

That's what the DIR_ objects are meant for. You don't save animations directly to either the object or DIR_object, but their parents are moving (one end on the upright, one on the body) and then it rotates object. Since the object's position doesn't change, it stays mounted in the same spot on the upright, but always points where it should.

You can create longer chains of DIR_s but they become increasingly unstable. eg. I had the steering rack as a child of the left tie rod and pointing at the end of the right tie rod. But it wiggled around a lot. So I split the rack in half and the left half is a child of the left tie rod, right one's a child of the right tie rod.

 

[JackCY]

As far as I know nothing really changed. You've got the suspension editor for a while now, the ingame dev apps, etc. Aero calculations can be done with flow software, but usually there is some data laying around on the web.
There is also a good work sheet for suspension design. I believe by felipe..? Obviously you'd need the measurements pictured above, too.

I have some spreadsheets from AC forum yes, some stuff there is useful, mostly the comments. The suspension there is more about how to add the setup values so it's driveable, I can do that without any tools but say the rod length which is suspension geometry dimensions thing is something I did use to estimate and validate.

Either I am missing something or the Kunos app is that simple:

There is pretty much nothing and I have more calculated in my own spreadsheet than what Kunos shows in the app.
I'm trying to make my own app as this one from Kunos is simply unacceptable/unusable/useless.
There are some spreadsheets, dunno of on AC forum or elsewhere I just search everywhere, real cars forums etc. but the only I found does the calculation in 2D with 2D visualization, which is wrong and just an estimate.
I have it calculated in 3D just like it should be but not in an app yet.

On the other side of the scale where Kunos's app is lies MSC Adams, lots of stuff but clumsiness of the app is off the limits and it still can't do 3D visualization and even 2D is more of for checking only and not real time tuning at all.

I'll check AC forum later and RD if there is something new that can be reused.

 

[AccAkut]

I have some spreadsheets from AC forum yes, some stuff there is useful, mostly the comments. The suspension there is more about how to add the setup values so it's driveable, I can do that without any tools but say the rod length which is suspension geometry dimensions thing is something I did use to estimate and validate.

Either I am missing something or the Kunos app is that simple:

There is pretty much nothing and I have more calculated in my own spreadsheet than what Kunos shows in the app.
I'm trying to make my own app as this one from Kunos is simply unacceptable/unusable/useless.
There are some spreadsheets, dunno of on AC forum or elsewhere I just search everywhere, real cars forums etc. but the only I found does the calculation in 2D with 2D visualization, which is wrong and just an estimate.
I have it calculated in 3D just like it should be but not in an app yet.

On the other side of the scale where Kunos's app is lies MSC Adams, lots of stuff but clumsiness of the app is off the limits and it still can't do 3D visualization and even 2D is more of for checking only and not real time tuning at all.

I'll check AC forum later and RD if there is something new that can be reused.

Well, yeah, that's all the Kunos app has to offer. It's not even working on solid axle type suspension, which will just crash the app lol.

It would be much appreciated if you'd try your hands on creating a new 3D app... if you do please have it show the tire size from the tires.ini

 

[Ben O'Bro]

And a first export tryout (without the spring)
i only exported the dummies ( DIR_ ) meaning animated_suspensions=0
i measured in 3dsmax the space between the two axis, and put the same in the ini files, and changed the dummy pivot to that axis so it's all aligned properly ingame.
But... i have a funny behavior! see below how the wishbone is rotating... any clue ?

is the strict solution to bake and export the animation and then use the parameter animated=1 ?
Because now i'm happy about pretty much everything but the bottom wishbone! The steering arm is working both in steering and suspension!
Then comes the question about the spring... and the animated=0 ... so many questions

 

[JackCY]

Well there is lots of ideas but not enough time and energy. My main goal is to make real time adjustment and visualization of the main suspension geometry so that the DWB can be made without having to use incorrect or expensive and complicated tools none of which offer real time visualization really of all the values I want, camber, toe, ... when the suspension moves up/down plus steering.

What is needed from tyres.ini? I have not had issue with tyres other than Kunos uses ten million of magic numbers to define the tyres for their physics engine. But I reuse those from Kunos's tyres. I did not dig deep into tyres yet as I don't want to make custom super grip tyres like most mods have, I want the feel Kunos has on their tyres and cars so it's consistent with what is in the game and what Kunos probably invested time into and has sources for.
You want a calculation of 185/70/13 into width, height, circumference... of the tyre? I did that online, maybe some in spreadsheet, other I simply copied from the tyre specs.
I do not know myself why Kunos doesn't have an Editor that has import/export and is able to edit and visualize real time the changes done in .ini files in graphs and numbers. Considering how many cars they make especially. Or they simply do not tune the cars they just paste in real values which they may be able to obtain but modders aren't.

I have to dig out how Kunos does solid axle as we might use that on the old Caterham.

I saved this page so I can dig you out later when/if it comes to R400 later. It helps to have someone with access to the real car even if it's just to put a huge ruler on the suspension and take decent high res photos and share some car data if available from suspension stats, dyno, consumption, ...

Step by step though

 

[Ben O'Bro]

still asking for help!
see below previous post

ps, read about live axle there few weeks ago http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/live-axle-suspension-geometry.21514/

And a first export tryout (without the spring)
i only exported the dummies ( DIR_ ) meaning animated_suspensions=0
i measured in 3dsmax the space between the two axis, and put the same in the ini files, and changed the dummy pivot to that axis so it's all aligned properly ingame.
But... i have a funny behavior! see below how the wishbone is rotating... any clue ?

is the strict solution to bake and export the animation and then use the parameter animated=1 ?
Because now i'm happy about pretty much everything but the bottom wishbone! The steering arm is working both in steering and suspension!
Then comes the question about the spring... and the animated=0 ... so many questions

 

[JackCY]

Thanks, checking it. I can always read it out of Kunos cars what the magic config names for .ini files are, as long as they made one. Will see how it works, ... so far not that great, typical Kunos hacks from what I read people trying to use it and Aris explaning something:

Live Axle geometry is more tricky to setup in virtual worlds because every link is a joint, while in reality almost all are hinges.
So that means that every link you create can rotate freely and you can't force a single axis of rotation except if you block it with another link.

So yeah, you still can't specify a type of joint... Kunos.

Will check what would be closest in behavior to the suspension we need to make. AXLE should simulate the best if all the other parameters can still be adjusted without restrictions which may not be possible, but it's been a year and maybe Kunos lifted that restriction I read about. DeDion is kind of the "smartest" axle suspension type which can be adjusted and is not locked or have excessive unsprung weight. Even normal axle can be adjusted if the gears are crowned? As in not perfect straight but can be used at an angle.
Otherwise there is always DWB...

 

[Ben O'Bro]

Daaamn it's been a while.

I'll just leave that here...

Finally found a nice owner to leave me with his car for an afternoon!

 

[Xtriko]

Ben O'Bro, keep pushing, never give up

 

[Ben O'Bro]

More details and work done, so it was time to stop spamming the "What Are You Working On?" Thread !

getting into details.
few more details unwrap, baked, textured, normal map, all that!

and more screens here : http://benobro.org/i/7mod/

and the big thing, i redid the driver anim, the guy even does some (lazy-ass) shifting! (thanks a lot to the rig driver made by the_meco!)
i messed up the settings in the recording so the video isn't HD... but hey, i'm too tired to redo it for today... since the sound from the academy is broken, i used a sound from an opel kadett for testing purposes. Funnily enough it's not too bad from certain angles!
The left spring is going nuts for some reason, rest of the system is pretty steady

that's all folks!

 

[AccAkut]

woah, that looks amazing. You're not taking steps, you're leaping.

Could you maybe share the Shader settings you used on that spring? Or PM them to me? I have a few parts on my car (like the springs) that in comparism still look like lego.

 

[Ben O'Bro]

no secret recipe!
i used the page in assetto forum you actually did long ago to get the basics
rendered the shadow bake thing, added colors for the plastic, brand, and stripes for the thread. Made a normal for the thread.
here it is: (2300 pixels wide picture, open in new tab..)

edit; because i have a skin modifier in 3dsmax on the spring, ksEditor made a skin material, i didn't choose it, ks did! So i'm not sure what it does exactly.
hope this helps!