PC1 why is the pCARS forum buried?

[Damage Inc]

Took me a while to find this forum. Was wondering why it's tucked away amongst "old" sims when it's very much a "future" sim?

 

[Andy_J]

irrelvant, am I here abusing poeple using my anonymity? Or am I being polite and using netiquette?

But we can have a guess who you are though.

The great thing about the internet is that people can have an opinion and unless you own the website, you can't do a thing about it. Must be very frustrating for you?

Anyway, as time passes more and more members/investors or whatever you call them this week, are seeing the game for what it is. Simcade of the highest order. No different than Shift 2 in any way. If anyone was to see it running for the first time in a replay they would think it was Shift 3 without a doubt. I actually prefer Forza to be honest. Actually I prefer Shift 2 with it's great mods.

I really hope the game gets turned around by the time it's released and that it is good by then, but going on the current builds, nothing fills me with confidence that it will get any better.

 

[Damage Inc]

It's not "the" yardstick, but it's clearly important especially as we only have controllers/wheels to judge what the cars doing....also, weak or low detail FFB always seem to be part and parcel of simcade games like F1 2010/Dirt3 etc.

As far as any elitism on my part, it's just my opinion and my preference, but I certainly don't change it to suit modern racing game marketing slogans.

RD is the official support forum for GSC, so yes, you'll always be directed here, but I found it to be fairly easy to set up, if you can set up any sim, you should be fine with GSC, but support is available here.

EDIT....noticeable car behaviour=physics.

Just to say i wasn't directing the "elitism" thing at you, really enjoying our discussion and it's a shame others here aren't able to discuss it like you!

This is what I don't understand....I fully realise that dirt 3 and F1201X qualify as Simcade, I've borrowed F12010 off my father inlaw, and dabbled with F12012 demos on PC and PS3, didn't really like them from a "car control" perspective, felt weird and couldn't get a good ffb feel no matter what I did. There is a world of difference between pCARS ffb and those titles. pCARS may not have the ffb as good as other sims (yet-have to put that in!) but to class it simcade for that reason is very harsh IMO. Reading the WMD thread about the ffb and the tyre physics is a bit of struggle as a layman because the language there is rather in depth and complex, SMS are most definitely trying to get the ffb as good as they can and as real as they can.

 

[Damage Inc]

But we can have a guess who you are though.

The great thing about the internet is that people can have an opinion and unless you own the website, you can't do a thing about it. Must be very frustrating for you?

Anyway, as time passes more and more members/investors or whatever you call them this week, are seeing the game for what it is. Simcade of the highest order. No different than Shift 2 in any way. If anyone was to see it running for the first time in a replay they would think it was Shift 3 without a doubt. I actually prefer Forza to be honest. Actually I prefer Shift 2 with it's great mods.

I really hope the game gets turned around by the time it's released and that it is good by then, but going on the current builds, nothing fills me with confidence that it will get any better.

Anyone with knowledge of Metallica will guess who I am. Go on have a guess if it's a game you want to play, I'm not bothered one jot.

Your opinion means less to me than that of a bricks I'm afraid. You clearly have an agenda, to either wind up or just to troll. Never seen a decent post from you on the subject of pCARS, you are incredibly biased, argumentative, unreasonable with a thin veneer of reconciliatory comments to end with that no-one falls for.

It's most certainly not frustrating. I have many problems in my life in reality and discussions about Sim labelling does not cause frustration. It causes a meloncholy that the community can be so fragmented.

I would say no members are doing anything of the sort, the game is improving build after build. Many can see the improvements yet you keep insisting there are no improvements, this is delusional at best.

I will admit I'm getting worried about the lack of Ai work, but other areas are coming along nicely and not that far away from the competiton. No idea if they can get up to or even surpass other sims in some areas, but in others areas like weather and Day/night transition pCARS destroys other sims. Really hoping they can tie it all into the physics so more power at night with cooler air but harder to keep tyres up to optimal temp. It's a game people should get behind to push the other devs to include stuff that will only make future sims more realistic and better. Clearly that's not important for you.

 

[Andy_J]

Anyone with knowledge of Metallica will guess who I am. Go on have a guess if it's a game you want to play, I'm not bothered one jot.

I don't need to guess, I know. You can insult me as much as you like old chap. Water off a ducks back you see. I have an opinion on the game that you don't like. That seems to give you the right to insult or call names. I don't call you names, I don't insult. You carry on making a fool of yourself like you have previously. By the way Metallica? Nah I don't like pop music.

edit: You have the nerve to call me a troll?

ps, why don't you buy this website and then you can control it too.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

There is a world of difference between pCARS ffb and those titles. .

Last build, pcars operated well with my wheel, ie, no blatant deadzones etc, but I didn't find the FFB detail convincing or the driving model, but for sure, it should be a viable racing game with wheel or gamepad.

When I drive the 458 in FVA, I feel like a have a real animal in my hands, heavy FFB but it also gives me stress points of FFB detail so that I know I have to slow down or improve my braking modulation etc.

I'd swap AC physics and FFB with FVA in a heartbeat.

No car in GTR EVO feels as good as the FVA 458, but that's not to say there's isn't excellent FFB detail which I can work off, but as yet, pcars lacks plenty in that regard.

As for all the complexities at WMD, remember that even a simcade requires lots of work, but clearly not as much as a tight sim car.

Anyway, WMD still have time up their sleeve, if they've leaving the physics to the last minute that's a big mistake IMO, but anyway, all game developers should at the very minimum aim to make a good game and pcars looks like it'll hit that mark, however, it's just not in the sim category for me as yet.

Another thing to remember is that most people don't seem to care about the details of a sim, they mainly want GFX and cars that move fairly well, lol.

 

[Deleted member 151827]

I hate the saying "simcade"!

 

[Damage Inc]

I don't need to guess, I know. You can insult me as much as you like old chap. Water off a ducks back you see. I have an opinion on the game that you don't like. That seems to give you the right to insult or call names. I don't call you names, I don't insult. You carry on making a fool of yourself like you have previously. By the way Metallica? Nah I don't like pop music.

edit: You have the nerve to call me a troll?

ps, why don't you buy this website and then you can control it too.

LOL you have no idea who I am, I'm thinking you think I'm someone heavily invested in pCARS. Well on there and a few other sites I'm Leper Messiah. Only got the 45 euro package because all I wanted was to get the game, no interest in all that other stuff.

Also I didn't insult you so no water to swim in. You have an opinion indeed, you also clearly have a personal negative agenda towards the game that no amount of "I hope they get it together" will fool anyone.

you call me a "fool" (which FYI is pretty much an insult), yet you describe Metallica as "Pop" music. That is either ignorance at best or another case of mindless trolling so yes I call you a troll because you pretty much tick all the boxes of the "troll" description. You're only here to derail a discussion, get some anger and get the mods involved to close the thread....so yeah...troll.

I could discuss my particular favourite Metallica era, the names I choose are a clue, they will always be a Thrash Metal band in my eyes, what they did in the Bob Rock era was not a high point for them in my eyes, but no-one with the least bit of intelligence would call that music "pop".

My arguments against your opinion is the same as my arguments with David, he manages to converse on the subject without coming across as bad as you do, try taking a leaf from his book if you're capable of that level of discourse. That's the only way I'll stop calling you a troll.

 

[Damage Inc]

Last build, pcars operated well with my wheel, ie, no blatant deadzones etc, but I didn't find the FFB detail convincing or the driving model, but for sure, it should be a viable racing game with wheel or gamepad.

When I drive the 458 in FVA, I feel like a have a real animal in my hands, heavy FFB but it also gives me stress points of FFB detail so that I know I have to slow down or improve my braking modulation etc.

I'd swap AC physics and FFB with FVA in a heartbeat.

No car in GTR EVO feels as good as the FVA 458, but that's not to say there's isn't excellent FFB detail which I can work off, but as yet, pcars lacks plenty in that regard.

As for all the complexities at WMD, remember that even a simcade requires lots of work, but clearly not as much as a tight sim car.

Anyway, WMD still have time up their sleeve, if they've leaving the physics to the last minute that's a big mistake IMO, but anyway, all game developers should at the very minimum aim to make a good game and pcars looks like it'll hit that mark, however, it's just not in the sim category for me as yet.

Another thing to remember is that most people don't seem to care about the details of a sim, they mainly want GFX and cars that move fairly well, lol.

Never tried FVA, a shame but I need more bang per buck to get my wallet out and dust off the cobwebs!!

I understand your argument, but all it proves is that one game is inferior to another in a subjective way, you have to accept that the "cade" part refers to "arcade" and that implies no attempt whatsoever at reality. You have to acknowledge that that is NOT happening with pCARS. Being able to control the game with a pad is irrelevant, unless you also call Assetto "simcade", becuase they are doing a similar thing as SMS.

Let me try a Football analogy:

For arguments sake I'll put FVA leading the top division, iRacing 2nd.... ok? So pCARS isn't not up there in your opinion, fair enough that is not what I'm arguing about. Arguably they are mid table. But it seems to me that inferring any sort of connection to "arcade" implies pCARS in the lower division. Do you honestly think that is a fair and unbiased reflection of the coding of the physics engine?

IMO the only fair reason to use "simcade" is if a game purposely alters the handling to achieve unreality regarding the handling, or the game has an arcade racer style structure.

 

[Damage Inc]

I hate the saying "simcade"!

I do too, I think it's a divisive term...I must admit I'm guilty of using it (not on any site just personal), to label games like Forza/GT/grid etc etc. They have some elements of Sim but also a lot of arcade elements. But I wish the term did not exist if I'm honest.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I hate the saying "simcade"!

Depends on which scale you put it.

If the spectrum goes from Mario Kart all the way up to iRacing its defenitely not an insult to be a simcade game in the middle group.

Actually if simulation is regarded the highest rank in order you can also state that when it comes to difficulty simracing games are 130% harder than real life racing. In that case simcade might even be closer to the real thing than some think.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

And why are sims above simcades and arcade games at all? It's targeting another market, thats all. I don't rank Forza, GT or pCars to be any less than GSC2013 or AC, but I'm not interested in them either because they are not offering me what I want from a game.
You're just fuelling the elitism you're trying to squash by acknowledging the "fact" that simcades are any lesser than simulators, when in fact they're not, they're simply targeting another audience as mentioned.

 

[Damage Inc]

And why are sims above simcades and arcade games at all? It's targeting another market, thats all. I don't rank Forza, GT or pCars to be any less than GSC2013 or AC, but I'm not interested in them either because they are not offering me what I want from a game.
You're just fuelling the elitism you're trying to squash by acknowledging the "fact" that simcades are any lesser than simulators, when in fact they're not, they're simply targeting another audience as mentioned.

If that's aimed at me I'll reply, at NO point do I say they are "lesser", all I said was they are games with "arcade" game elements, if someone likes that sort of thing fair enough, not my cup of tea, but doesn't make them "lesser" just a different market. Like it or not pCARS is in the same market as AC, GSC, iRacing etc etc. So am not fuelling any sort of "eliteism" at all.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I am trying to put it on a scale of difficulty @Kjell Eilertsen . Which is not insinuating a value at all.

As long as a virtual car has wheels I really don't care if its arcade or simulation.

My collection of games ranges from: Mario Kart (yes!), TDU series, Flatout, F1 Race stars, all the way up to the more simmish titles as AC, iRacing and everything in between such as GT5, Forza, EuroTruck Simulator etc.

I'd be the last to fuel elitism as I really don't give a crap if something is arcade, simcade or sim. As long as I enjoy it its fine

 

[Damage Inc]

I am trying to put it on a scale of difficulty @Kjell Eilertsen . Which is not insinuating a value at all.

As long as a virtual car has wheels I really don't care if its arcade or simulation.

My collection of games ranges from: Mario Kart (yes!), TDU series, Flatout, F1 Race stars, all the way up to the more simmish titles as AC, iRacing and everything in between such as GT5, Forza, EuroTruck Simulator etc.

I'd be the last to fuel elitism as I really don't give a crap if something is arcade, simcade or sim

But labelling does fuel elitism, it divides if you have more than one label. That is a fact, that is the whole point of it! Hence why it's much better that we strive to stop using the Simcade label. The sim community is already quite small in comparison to others, why divide it further?

 

[Deleted member 151827]

I am trying to put it on a scale of difficulty @Kjell Eilertsen . Which is not insinuating a value at all.

As long as a virtual car has wheels I really don't care if its arcade or simulation.

My collection of games ranges from: Mario Kart (yes!), TDU series, Flatout, F1 Race stars, all the way up to the more simmish titles as AC, iRacing and everything in between such as GT5, Forza, EuroTruck Simulator etc.

I'd be the last to fuel elitism as I really don't give a crap if something is arcade, simcade or sim. As long as I enjoy it its fine

BAMN! If i am having fun playing then that's all that matters! Sometimes though when i hear people using that "term" it completely turns me off racing games! It shouldn't, but for some reason it sets me off when i hear or read it. lol

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Nothing wrong with labeling. Some games are simply not a realistic simulation racing experience.

Does that make them bad? Not at all.

Just to give an example. Toca Race Driver 2 is the game I have logged the most hours on online ever. No other game in the future will make me spend so many hours behind a monitor

Simulation? Not at all. Fun? Absolutely.

Would still be playing it if CM decided to re-release it with dedicated server support.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

But labelling does fuel elitism, it divides if you have more than one label. That is a fact, that is the whole point of it! Hence why it's much better that we strive to stop using the Simcade label. The sim community is already quite small in comparison to others, why divide it further?

So labeling Metallica as heavy metal fuels elitism? It might be that I'm mentally challenged but I don't understand why a label to define a game within a genre has to be something that belittles it.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I'd be the last to fuel elitism as I really don't give a crap if something is arcade, simcade or sim. As long as I enjoy it its fine

It was aimed at Damage Inc as you posted while I was typing my reply, but I completely agree, I don't care what the game is labeled as, what matters is whether I'm having fun or not.

 

[Deleted member 151827]

Sorry guys. Didn't mean to start the firestorm. lol

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Sorry guys. Didn't mean to start the firestorm. lol

No problem. Help is near. Pick whatever is suitable.