Which mid range wheel and pedals?

[Leadfoot46]

Hi,
First post, sorry it's a big one

Need a bit of help deciding which wheel & pedals to upgrade to from my current Momo. It's for use on a PC with a F-GT Lite seat, playing Assetto Corsa, F1, Project cars, RF 2 and the good old Richard Burns Rally. Currently it's down to:
* Logitech G29/920
* Thrustmaster TMX/T150 (probably Pro for the TP3A pedals)
* Thrustmaster TX/T300 GT (again probably Pro for the TP3A pedals)

What I've worked out so far:
* Logitech is old (getting on for 10 years) gear driven technology, so not the best FFB but rock solid build with leather bound wheel, can be hard mounted and a decent set of pedals.
Cost $390 from Costco

* TMX/T150 - better FFB than Logitech - Hybrid belt/gears, add on gear shifter or handbrake is better then the Logitech. BUT can't be easily hard mounted without buying a plate from Richmotec in the US at $77 inclusive of postage, wheel is rubber coated, pedals OK, possibly on a par with Logitech?
Cost: $404 from Catch of the Day with my current $15 off voucher

* TX/T300 - best FFB - fully belt driven, interchangeable wheel (I'm not likely to do that), can be hard mounted, pedals same as TMX Pro.
Cost: $599 from centrecom,com

So, price aside, the best is obviously the TX/T300 but is it worth the extra $200 odd over the other 2?

And, regarding them, does the better FFB of the TMX/T150 outweigh the build and mounting issues?

On the TMX/T150 mounting, I could probably jimmy up a plate from MDF or perspex based on the Richmotec one.

I realise any of these is a big step up from the Momo and I'm sort of leaning towards the TMX/T150 but happy to receive any advice anyone out there can give me.

 

[blekenbleu]

Because the Logitech is so durable, consider getting a used one for less.
Logitech pedals are relatively easy to modify e.g. for more useful braking.
As the recently introduced Fanatec CSL DD continues to replace belt-driven Fanatecs,
particularly around Christmas, a fair number of used Fanatec wheelbases may
depress their used prices, as well as those of e.g. mid-range Thrustmasters.

 

[Leadfoot46]

Because the Logitech is so durable, consider getting a used one for less.
Logitech pedals are relatively easy to modify e.g. for more useful braking.
As the recently introduced Fanatec CSL DD continues to replace belt-driven Fanatecs,
particularly around Christmas, a fair number of used Fanatec wheelbases may
depress their used prices, as well as those of e.g. mid-range Thrustmasters.

Thank for that, not seeing much in the way of used T300 units ATM but I'll keep an eye out.

 

[blekenbleu]

not seeing much in the way of used T300 units ATM

Yes, I may drastically underestimate pent-up demand,
or too many (like myself) may simply hold onto old e.g. G29
because of selling hassles and in case current units fail.

You could post a wanted in Sim Racing Marketplace;
putting your location in the thread title would help.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Bite the bullet, get a CSL DD 5nm, the game has just changed.

 

[Leadfoot46]

Bite the bullet, get a CSL DD 5nm, the game has just changed.

$600 is my max to spend so the CSL will remain a dream sadly.

 

[Denis Betty]

You may just find yourself in a position where you're still dreaming of an upgrade every time you sit in your rig. My little mantra is "try to force yourself to spend more than you really want to". It's a hard thing to do, but you're unlikely to feel disappointed and wish you'd spent less after a few weeks have passed.

How many people have you seen posting that DD is not the way to go? There is one guy on RD that springs to mind. He's a knowledgeable guy too, but IIRC he has his own reasons and doesn't suggest that others should follow his lead.

I would hang fire. Get a used belt drive if you can't wait, but I wouldn't recommend a gear driven wheel. Just think long and hard "Is there any way I can get a DD wheel?". If you have money waiting, used DDs occasionally come up for sale on RD. Watch the Markeplace forum like a hawk. Scroll down to old threads to see what's sold on here in the past.

Many of us have bought multiple upgrades over the years and, as mentioned above, the old wheel often gets placed in a cupboard and kept as a spare. Save yourself the expensive journey and a fair amount of longing/wishing and find a way to get a wheel that you'll be really happy with for years to come.

Just my opinion of course and I understand that you may not see things that way, but if you take my advice I'm pretty confident that you'll be grateful for it.

All the best and good luck in your quest.

 

[blekenbleu]

$600 is my max

Used AccuForce wheels have sold for that here recently.

 

[Deleted member 1066209]

As a proud owner of a Thrustmaster T300, I would like to offer you my opinion.

I am very content with my T300. I enjoy using it each and every time, but now that I'm past the "honeymoon phase" with this wheel, I'm heavily considering an upgrade to a direct drive wheel. Funnily enough, when settling on the T300, I managed to convince myself that I didn't need a DD. That has held true to a certain extent, although looking back now, I realize I could have gotten a CSL DD for only a little bit more.

Being that you are using the F-GT Lite, I can only suggest the 5nm CSL DD as a suitable wheel, in order to avoid overstressing the chassis.

Also, please consider the fact that the force feedback from the steering wheel plays a large role in how you interpret the simulator/game. If the details from the FFB are muddy, you will have a very hard time to instantaneously judge the driving conditions. Other tools to better interpret the game are available, but usually require a larger investment, such as: VR ($$$), tactile transducers ($-$$$), motion simulators ($$$-$$$$), and other types of feedback hardware, like a G-Belt, or a G-Seat ($$$-$$$$).

Given that you will need a steering wheel regardless, I think the CSL DD will give you the best performance for your dollar. If you purchase anything less, I'm certain that you will wind up in my position, in search of better performance from better hardware.

Also, maybe you can see if you'd be able to reuse your old pedals without the accompanying wheel, in order to save some money?

 

[Leadfoot46]

Thanks for all the good advice folks, it's got me thinking but given $600 it my limit, it would have to be used gear to get a DD setup. Seems like the wheel base alone for a DD would eat up most of that, the Momo pedals are not re-useable so I guess I'd also be looking to find wheel and pedals.

As I said, I've currently got an old Momo wheel and pedals so anything in the $400-$600 range will be a huge step up. I'm not really thinking of getting into serious racing, just happy playing against the games themselves.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Lots of good advice up there.
But what would be best course action in situation?

My situation:

I started sim driving in Janary 2020 with the goal to improve my track knowledge of the Nordschleife.(where I did infrequent lapping sessions.)

For that I pulled a DIY alu profile rig in front of the main TV.
T300 with loadcell modded T3PA pro and PS4.

Covid hit and my car budget went into the simulator.

SC2 pro, Heusinkveld Sprint, tactile transducers on PC with triple monitors.
It escalated quickly,

BUT IT WAS NO FINANCIAL HEADACHE FOR ME !!

It´s true that the wish for more can hit hard, but never forget:

it´s only a (fancy) game controler.

So only spend as much as you comfortably can.

A T300 is a serviceable wheel at an ok price point.
After purchase immediately set it to "forced cooling mode" to avoid the known overheating problem.
Used steering wheels are plentyfull, I had three extra for little money.

All the attached pedals are not great, but if you don´t like them there´s a lot on the market. Everything loadcell from the T-LCM upward is a huge upgrade when you see the need and have the funds again so you don´t have to save on gas and beer.

Yes, DD is a lot more immersive and engaging, but life is outside the PC and the law of diminishing hits real hard after the T300 and decent pedals. (c. Chris Haye)

MFG Carsten

 

[GeekyDeaks]

the Momo pedals are not re-useable so I guess I'd also be looking to find wheel and pedals.

If you are ok with the pedals and happy to tinker, you could rig up a USB adapter. I found someone posted the pinouts for the pedals here: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/driving-force-gt-wiring-diagram.5677/#post-59147 - I'd personally double check it's correct with a multimeter though.
I used a cheap arduino pro-micro clone as an adapter, but you could also check out the leo bodnar boards for a slightly easier route: http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=94&products_id=204
Lots of people on this site can help guide you with this if you have the patience and the board will allow you to make your own button boxes etc... later on

 

[Leadfoot46]

Lots of good advice up there.
But what would be best course action in situation?

My situation:

I started sim driving in Janary 2020 with the goal to improve my track knowledge of the Nordschleife.(where I did infrequent lapping sessions.)

For that I pulled a DIY alu profile rig in front of the main TV.
T300 with loadcell modded T3PA pro and PS4.

Covid hit and my car budget went into the simulator.

SC2 pro, Heusinkveld Sprint, tactile transducers on PC with triple monitors.
It escalated quickly,

BUT IT WAS NO FINANCIAL HEADACHE FOR ME !!

It´s true that the wish for more can hit hard, but never forget:

it´s only a (fancy) game controler.

So only spend as much as you comfortably can.

A T300 is a serviceable wheel at an ok price point.
After purchase immediately set it to "forced cooling mode" to avoid the known overheating problem.
Used steering wheels are plentyfull, I had three extra for little money.

All the attached pedals are not great, but if you don´t like them there´s a lot on the market. Everything loadcell from the T-LCM upward is a huge upgrade when you see the need and have the funds again so you don´t have to save on gas and beer.

Yes, DD is a lot more immersive and engaging, but life is outside the PC and the law of diminishing hits real hard after the T300 and decent pedals. (c. Chris Haye)

MFG Carsten

Excellent advice, thanks, got me thinking I'll go with a T300 and maybe later look at a load cell mod for the pedals.

 

[Leadfoot46]

If you are ok with the pedals and happy to tinker, you could rig up a USB adapter. I found someone posted the pinouts for the pedals here: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/driving-force-gt-wiring-diagram.5677/#post-59147 - I'd personally double check it's correct with a multimeter though.
I used a cheap arduino pro-micro clone as an adapter, but you could also check out the leo bodnar boards for a slightly easier route: http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=94&products_id=204
Lots of people on this site can help guide you with this if you have the patience and the board will allow you to make your own button boxes etc... later on

Thanks for that but, the Momo pedals are pretty basic so I'd want better ones for sure.

 

[Leadfoot46]

Hi, just wondering why the T300 RS with the 2 pedal set is generally priced dearer than the T30 RS GT with the T3PA pedal set? Is it maybe because the GT version is newer and Thrustmaster are pushing it or is there something "better" about the non-GT version. I thought they are exactly the same except for the pedals?

 

[Deleted member 1066209]

I am fairly certain that the wheelbase is the same for both the GT and non-GT. The difference lies only in the pedals.

I don't know if anyone has ever modded a load cell onto the 2-pedal set.

 

[stigs2cousin]

I don't know if anyone has ever modded a load cell onto the 2-pedal set.

Probably not.

I think loadcell mods for pedals are not worth it anymore if you can't DIY it for 20€ in parts.
The T-LCM and the entry Level Fanatec are way better pedals for around 200€.


MFG Carsten

 

[Jan Larsen]

Out of the bunch you outlined in the first post - G29 all the way. Yes the T300 is a better wheel FFB wise, but JesusC it sucks when it comes to heat management. I had modded 2 extra fans on it to try and keep it cool and it still fried itself, so I threw it out in anger and bought Fanatec 5 mins later, job done.
The G29 is a geared wheel and yes you'll know that right away as it rattles like mad when FFB is applied, BUT, its bulletproof. My G27 which works as a backup wheel, is STILL going after a gazillion laps over the past 11 years. But as Denis said, you really should consider spending a little more than the 600$ budget and get the CSL DD and one of the cheaper wheels, like the McLaren V2 or the WRC wheel. It'll be a million times better experience.

 

[stigs2cousin]

My T300 went strong for over a year, even with lockdown use.
Now a friend has it.

Gxx I tried at a friends place, put me of simracing for half a year because it felt that bad. Only bought a wheel myself after testdriving the T300.
So, your mileage may vary.
Try to testdrive before buying....

MFG Carsten

 

[GeekyDeaks]

Try to testdrive before buying....

Definitely second this. I have upgraded recently from a G29 which served me really well for 2+ years and I'm still using the pedals (although they have been modded like crazy). I found the noise in certain cars/tracks made me avoid them though and had to drastically reduce the kerb/road effects. Cannot complain too much as it only cost me £100