What to buy to get into Sim Racing

First, I'm still very new to all this, I apologize in advanced if I'm breaking some code of conduct as to where to post. I may not have read the Terms of Service properly. If these type of posts do not belong on this subforum, or on Racedepartment at all, I apologize for the inconvenience.

Again, sorry if this is an unorthodox post or doesn't belong on this forum. Apologies in advance for reading this.

Well, I was recommended to this forum by a member on my main forum, Overclock.net.
I'm interested in playing racing games again, and transitioning from arcade to simulation. I want a proper starter setup for arcade style: Grid, TDU 1/2, F1 2011 and Simulation racing: Race07/GTR Evolution, rFactor 2 (a bit afterwards, maybe in Beta, will purchase a years subscription) and iRacing when the time comes and I'm a bit better and more accustomed to all this, and don't suck.

Budget: up to $700

Parts to think of:
I was talking to said member, who is extremely helpful and prominent on my computing forum, and we went over a list of possible options for wheels. After much debate and reading and advising, I've decided on the time tested Logitech g27. For the pedals, I'm picking up the Fanatec CSRe, rather than waiting for the v2 of the CSP. Keeping stock shifter from the g27.

Thoughts on Fanatec: I like to think of fanatec now (as opposed to mid 2010 - early 2011) as an IF company. They're components are of Ultra high quality, and they only work on wheels. Their prices are also very affordable. But they seem to be overpressured often, and heres the if, IF I get a lemon for whatever reason, I have to ship all the way back to Germany, wait for however long the company takes (and even to this day, from seeing such sites as 911wheel.de to gtplanet.com to SRT's forum) can be awhile before I get my wheel back, and this is assuming there are no problems a second time around. I rather not have this chance happen. Logitech, problem with wheel, they respond and ship back very quickly, good warranty option too. For Fanatec I was thinking of just getting the CSRe Pedals which have less chance of having problems, most rectifiable with little hassle. Their pedals are top notch and don't cost much for the amount they deliver. The wheels worry me though. I was interested in the GTR3 v2 Elites package.

Thoughts on Thrustmaster: No doubt is the t500rs an amazing wheel. But, A) the T8rs cost $150, B) weighs a ton C) has no load cell. I like to think of their current revision (I'm guessin v1) of the t500rs as a WHEN wheel, to take from an amazon review I read (though this could be garbage). When as in, most of their component selection is top notch, their build quality and QC apparently is appalling. It is a matter of time before it breaks down and one must ship the wheel to FRANCE. Not sure if I want that hassle. Again I don't want to believe everything I read, but I did read this and it has put me down to not want that.

Thoughts on higher end companies like ECCI: Hahahahaha, can't afford that kind of setup.

Next we have the cockpit or stand dilemma. I read a Tweaktown review of a cockpit (http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4158/gt_omega_racing_simulator_review/index8.html)

Now, here the reviewer stated that going from Couch Racing to cockpit racing was a great and welcome change. The reviewer specified the angle of the pedals. Now, it will take some convincing for my parents ( I am a commuter college kid who doesn't rent an apartment yet) to let me take up more of their living room space with a large and immobile cockpit that also costs $350+

But for $150, I can get the GT Omega Wheel stand with a right shifter arm, and later get their keyboard and mouse arms when they release (an email from them said it will release soon for the stand). Now that sounds like a sweet deal, considering only Gamepod and Fanatec sell Wheel stands aside from their cockpits, and Playseat and Rseat sell only cockpits. GT Omega gives the price of the Rennsport stand with the utilities of the Gamepod GT1, and seeing as I don't need to pay $20 for a beverage holder , the GT1 is pricy for upgraded materials, but at what cost.

Most importantly the GT Omega Wheel Stand comes with adjustable pedal plate mount. Woo, perfect for my arm chair / office chair racing.

Do you guys think it is worth getting a wheel stand over a cockpit? or is the experience just that much more true to life with the cockpit vs with a wheel stand?

Clarifications about what Ill be using: Gaming computer (i7 930, 6970 crossfire) with a true 120hz 1080p Led TV. I may at a later date get 3x, though I've used eyefinity before for FPS, not a big fan. I've got a fantastic eIPS panel (u2311h) to use with 3x, but this is years from now.

Finally, There's the question of the Buttkicker series. There was a post on here about them, and how they enhance the gaming experience.

So it really boils down to:
- Logitech G27 = $220
- Fanatec CSR-Elite Pedals (no inversion kit): $150
- GT Omega Wheel Stand Pre-order with Right arm mount for shifter: $160
- Buttkicker Simulation kit: $180

Is that a good setup?
 
There is no shame in having a G27, i use a G25 and am very happy with it. I also have a CSR Standard wheel and pedal set but it is packed away because i like the overall feel of the G25 better. Only reason i bought the CSR was to play Forza 4 but 360 bit the dust, i prefer the G25 so in the closet went my CSR.

Pedal stand is a good idea. When i first started simracing my pedals were flat on the floor and i was also using a office chair and found it uncomfortable after driving for a long period of time. What i didn't like about using a office chair was it wasn't afixed, it would move and i didn't like that. I use a Playseat now and it feels so much better driving in a more "Real Driving" like and solid position. I bought a used Obutto rig and Buttkicker system yesterday but didn't have time to set it up. i'll do that this weekend.

BTW welcome to RD!:thumbsup:
 
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There is no shame in having a G27, i use a G25 and am very happy with it. I also have a CSR Standard wheel and pedal set but it is packed away because i like the overall feel of the G25 better. Only reason i bought the CSR was to play Forza 4 but 360 bit the dust, i prefer the G25 so in the closet went my CSR.

Pedal stand is a good idea. When i first started simracing my pedals were flat on the floor and i was also using a office chair and found it uncomfortable after driving for a long period of time. What i didn't like about using a office chair was it wasn't afixed, it would move and i didn't like that. I use a Playseat now and it feels so much better driving in a more "Real Driving" like and solid position. I bought a used Obutto rig and Buttkicker system yesterday but didn't have time to set it up. i'll do that this weekend.

BTW welcome to RD!:thumbsup:
Thanks for the welcome :D

Yeah, on a few interviews I saw, like for iRacing and some prominent iRacers, a lot of users use the G27/G25. No complaints at all. I'll wait until at the least next year for the ClubSport Wheel to release, and/or the CSR-E wheel to lower in price, and wait for Fanatec to get their "act" together me (dedicated driver page, strong support, faster response times, quicker delivery and backstock for replacements) before getting another wheel.
 
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Alright, Small Update:

Purchased the G27s at a whooping $215, a whole $85 less than MSRP. They go for $234 most of the time on either newegg or amazon, but even less today so I was pretty happy.

Put in my preorder for the Fanatec CSR-Elite Pedals, hopefully getting them end of may woo! I'll buy the inversion kit if it is necessary later on.

Bought Race07 + GTR Evo for now. I'll get Race On later. Waiting for rFactor2 to have more cars, might join the beta in a few months. No plans for iRacing for atleast a year from now, by then I hope to either have a simracing cockpit or the ClubSport Wheel.


Thanks again for all the help guys! I'll be more active and more likely than not, licensed after my G27 arrives.
 
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Congratulation. I don't want to jump the gun but you probably know how customizable the G27 is. And if somewhere down the road you find that Sim-racing is a hobby worth spending your money on- even the electronic in the G27 is useable in higher end wheels like the Frex Simwheel Type-G (the G stands for the G25/G27) and even the $3000+ Leo Bodnar FFB motor. For that reason, I'm still keeping my old G25 despite having gone to the T500RS.
 
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I know there has been a lot of discussion already, and that you have also already put down the cash for some csre pedals. But here's my 2c:

If anyone is just starting I think an appropriate shopping list would be:

G27 - fantastic wheel (and not just because of the price)

Nixim brake mod- load cells and fanatec csps can be a secondary purchase. If you catch the bug this is a sensible first upgrade but should be avoided for a first build as they are a big cost. Nixim is cheap and easy to install.

Obutto Cockpit - If you are serious enough for the G27 then the Obutto will suit it well. It is a great platform (I own one) with great value. Nice thing is it can be upgraded with a triple monitor mount in the future (probably would be my first upgrade).

*note: a strong argument can be made for a chair/wheelstand/desk combo for beginners to save some money/or space. However, I find these setups can result in non-ideal seating/monitor positions (especially with triple screens).

PC - if you don't already have a pc for games then a build with an i5-3570k, 4-8GB of RAM, and a GTX670 should run you around $1100-$1200. You can get away with some cheaper CPU/gpu combos but buy this and you won't have to upgrade for a while. A bare-bones sim pc could probably be had for around $7-800 (but that is not my goal, could fill a new thread really).

monitor - any VESA mountable 24" LCD (1080p and LED preferably) will do if you don't have one. I see some monitors go on sale often around $160. Just pick a popular model so you can find 2more if triple screening in the future.

Hopefully, that sums it up!
 
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I honestly wouldn't spend too much. It's good to have a plan, but start with the bare minimum and add to it as you genuinely find yourself being drawn into the hobby. So many people buy stuff like this and it's being sold, barely used 3 months later (not saying it will be you, but it happens).

Get a G27, cancel the Fanatec pedals, get the Nixim mod as suggested, and play for at least 2-3 months and see how you get on, you'll know at this point what to do next. There is no reason rush it, enjoy it like a fine wine :)

Wouldn't get a cockpit until you know you are serious, just mount it to the desk, it's perfectly decent.
 
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I know there has been a lot of discussion already, and that you have also already put down the cash for some csre pedals. But here's my 2c:

If anyone is just starting I think an appropriate shopping list would be:

G27 - fantastic wheel (and not just because of the price)

Nixim brake mod- load cells and fanatec csps can be a secondary purchase. If you catch the bug this is a sensible first upgrade but should be avoided for a first build as they are a big cost. Nixim is cheap and easy to install.

Obutto Cockpit - If you are serious enough for the G27 then the Obutto will suit it well. It is a great platform (I own one) with great value. Nice thing is it can be upgraded with a triple monitor mount in the future (probably would be my first upgrade).

*note: a strong argument can be made for a chair/wheelstand/desk combo for beginners to save some money/or space. However, I find these setups can result in non-ideal seating/monitor positions (especially with triple screens).

PC - if you don't already have a pc for games then a build with an i5-3570k, 4-8GB of RAM, and a GTX670 should run you around $1100-$1200. You can get away with some cheaper CPU/gpu combos but buy this and you won't have to upgrade for a while. A bare-bones sim pc could probably be had for around $7-800 (but that is not my goal, could fill a new thread really).

monitor - any VESA mountable 24" LCD (1080p and LED preferably) will do if you don't have one. I see some monitors go on sale often around $160. Just pick a popular model so you can find 2more if triple screening in the future.

Hopefully, that sums it up!

G27, totally agree

Nixim Mod: Warranty Voided!

Obutto Cockpit: Well over $500 + shipping from the obutto website, though everyone loves it, the cheapest I would go is the Playseat cockpit which comes in at $350 with free shipping, but this is for later. I may end up with it, seeing as most cockpits are from the UK or Europe and shipping is insane.

PC- I think I posted it somewhere in this thread, already have a gaming pc. i7 930 @ 3.8gzh, 6970 crossfire @ 1000mhz.

Monitor: IPS class Dell u2311h, I may either get a BenQ 3D monitor later, or go tri-screen with this.

I just find it is justifiable to go with the Fanatec. The AP elextrix mod + Clutch mod from Nixim + Bodnar Box = well over $100 with shipping.

Fanatec CSR-EP = Adjustable Spring set, nearly all aluminum structure, warranty on the load cell which will need replacing from what I've read, and 10 bit resolution/can act as its own device. I get all this with a warranty $160 with shipping, no complaints.

You have to remember one of my primary motivations for the G27 is the fantastic warranty and support by Logitech. If fanatec didn't have any problems and wasn't a botique company, I would already own the Porsche GTR3 v2 elite set with a CSR shifter by now.

But thanks so much for the advice. I do agree with a lot of what everyone is saying. I felt like starting out right, but not going all out, like a T500Rs or something, but not a DFGT by any means. I can always resell or return the Fanatec wheels if they don't suit my fancy.

The cockpit will come in time, not anytime soon though. I'll be moving in 4 months, getting my own place and what not. I'll get one early next year.

OffTopic: Gah, last time I order from Amazon. If I had ordered from newegg, my products would have arrived by now and I would be racing. Instead, Amazon says "shipping soon" for the past week, even though I ordered LAST week. GAH. Never again.
 
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Thanks for the comments, SpykerV and congrats on your purchase(and welcome to RD!)

You are right that you can save money (and peace of mind with the warranty) by opting for a Playseat Evo/Desk/Clubsport Pedals as opposed to Obutto/G27/Nixim Mod. However, I think it might be better for beginners to race at their desk before buying either setups. Staying in the spirit of saving money they could leave out the decision for CSRE pedals or a Nixim mod.

If they decide they want a proper mount then my opinion is still for the Obutto/G27/Nixim setup since they will be able add on the triple monitor mount and have a much easier time getting the seating position/monitor height adjustments correct (which are VERY important IMHO).

This flexibility is not offered by the Playseat Evo which leaves the user to find a way to mount their monitor(s). Also the Obutto is a much nicer setup since there is no centre post.
 
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Sorry for the double post, but I think I can summarize things easier.

For users that already have a PC/Monitor/Desk/Chair all they will need to get started is logitech's G27.
Any less and they will have to replace the wheel and pedals if they are the least bit serious about playing sims. The driving force GT is a decent wheel but it is $125 better spent on a G27 (which won't really need to beupgraded at all). Worst case scenario the G27 still has a decent resale value.

Suitable upgrade options to consider after deciding to continue with simracing (in order of importance)
1. Cockpit
- Playseat Evolution
- Obutto Ozone
- GT Omega

2. Triple Monitors
First need to consider size and LED vs. LCD (23-24" LED VESA mountable is preferred)

2b. Triple Monitor Mounting
If not using your desk you will need to figure out how to mount the monitors. The Obutto triple mount is a cheap upgrade (and a great solution). Fast track sims offers an (expensive) universal solution.

2c. Triple Monitor GFX cards
If you don't have at least a GTX670 or AMD6950 you may need to upgrade your GPU to keep up with triple resolutions.

2d. One big monitor
Some simracers don't want triple screens so a big TV (32-40") makes more sense for them to upgrade

3. Pedals
Fanatec CSR elite pedals - cheapest load-cell equipped set of pedals
Fanatec Clubsport Pedals - Fanatec's original, bit pricier but more customizable
CST Pedals (really pricey but I have heard these are excellent)

3b. Pedal mods
Nixim Brake mod (will void warranty) - cheapest way to improve pedals and you wont have to throw out your G27's
Derek Speare's Tilton Pedal Pads for Fanatec CSPs (wouldn't buy a set of CSP's without em!)

4.Wheel
- modded G27 (ARC mod). G27 can be given more power/new rims.
- Fanatec GT2/ GT3RS-v2/ CSR/ CSR Elite
- Thrustmaster T500RS

5. Shifters
G27 sequential mod (get to keep your shifter)
Fanatec CSR or Porsche shifter sets (sequential and gated)
Frex (Sequential)
Thrustmaster TH8 RS (gated)

6. Shift Lights Indicator (SLI)
Leo Bodnar's SLI-M or SLI-PRO

There, I think that about covers it.
 
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Sorry for the double post, but I think I can summarize things easier.

*snip*

There, I think that about covers it.

:D

That really just about covers it! Thanks for all the help man, I appreciate the effort and advice.

I'll bookmark this to show to my buddies who want to get into simracing, a great summary of everything.

What a pleasant forum.:)
 
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Alright, G27 acquired! waiting around for CSR Elites, whenever fanatec ships my preorder that is, they said early june/end of may gahhh!

G27 is amazing. At first I did not like because it was frustrating making all the adjustments and profiles. I actually don't like the 900* of rotation. For TDU/TDU 2 I've been using 215*, with the H-Shifter, full clutch, mid ffb.

Besides that I've been playing a lot of GTR Evo. Like I and others have said, on a real sim, I will suck. Man do I suck. I've put a few hours behind the wheel, set it to 200* since that matches the in game wheel motion, set ffb to high (medium too weak, max nearly killed me), autol clutch, sequential pedals. Playing a lot of Nubrinbnrug (sorry for not even trying to attempt the spelling, I would have screwed it up either way). I can go about 10-15km of the 24km track, against AI 80%, before the bugger gets ahead of me. Game is HARD. but it is so satisfying to play, realism is great!

LFS demo and Racer beta are quite nice. LFS's training tracks even with the Wolkswagen is really tons of fun and educational. Next goals would be netkar pro as mentioned above, LFS Level 2, Race07 (all other expansions for it, besides main game and GTR evo) and rfactor 1 (full version for cheap) + 1 year sub to game and beta access.

iRacing is not in the horizon for at least a year. Not until I can do anything decent, and fully commit to racing at a set time weekly.

G27 is fantastic. I'm still learning which settings in game to avoid, not to use damper or center spring, and tweaking the linearity/sensititvy and rotation of the wheel, on a game by game, car by car basis. Making profiles is EXTREMELY annoying, but I can live with it. TDU had an easy profiler, TDU 2 had a preset which I loved (it was alright for an arcade open world type thing). GTR/Race07's profiler has way too many options and the preset is way too weak for me in ffb, and not the setup I wanted. LFS made me spend a good bit of time having to tweak everything, until I realized it is actually preset, pissed me off for a bit. Racer was easy enough. Pedals are surprisingly good, though on the carpet and wearing shoes, they keep slipping away (and I'm not slamming anything down). I've somehow trained myself to anticipate for the Loadcell, so I keep thinking about pressure, even though the g27 pedals which I know full well work on distance, buty I'm keeping prepped for my new pedals soon to arrive.

Some games use my HOTAS joystickk as my primary, I have to keep switching the USBs, slight irritation.

Otherwise a great experience, greatly enhanced my gaming life, gave a lot of spice to it, I was really bored of game for a good period of time.

Thanks guys!
 
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Good to hear you're enjoying the sims and your gear. Soon enough you'll be going from "Man I Suck" to "Man I Rock!"

Have you gotten into downloading and installing mods for GTR Evo?

If you have not checked it out yet, here you will find some mods.
http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/forums/race-07-mods.40/
http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/forums/true2life-racing.41/

Unsure about installing mods?
http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/how-to-add-downloaded-content-to-race-series.25283/
 
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Good to hear you're enjoying the sims and your gear. Soon enough you'll be going from "Man I Suck" to "Man I Rock!"

Have you gotten into downloading and installing mods for GTR Evo?

If you have not checked it out yet, here you will find some mods.
http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/forums/race-07-mods.40/
http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/forums/true2life-racing.41/

Unsure about installing mods?
http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/how-to-add-downloaded-content-to-race-series.25283/[/quote]

Thanks so much man, I'll check all the mods out and go to install them!
 
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GTR2 has a nice training mode. It may help you develop. Hit the track with a friend online and use Teamspeak 3 to talk and help each other out. Run with someone more experienced (and use an easy to learn track) and it helps a lot. Don't even think about messing with setups yet.

The publisher (or dev- whatever) went bankrupt and there's a company that is giving away online keys. http://www.computerbild.de/gutscheinaktionen/cbs-gtr-2-seriennummer-4349161.html?action=register is the site (it's in German) so all you need to do is to find the actual game.
 
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Besides that I've been playing a lot of GTR Evo. Like I and others have said, on a real sim, I will suck. Man do I suck. I've put a few hours behind the wheel, set it to 200* s

Hmmm, have you also tried 270-340/360 deg?
There's also steering lock value...15 is default, but that can be turned up for Open wheel cars.
Another feature Gtr Evo has is TIME ATTACK.....this is great for new drivers as you can learn braking points and racing line as you can dl and load faster drivers ghost laps, or follow your own ghost.

Sims take time to get the best out of....I don't think any sim player would disagree that the more you put into a sim, the more you get back.
 
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My good chum at this point who introduce me (bless his soul) to this, told me about the steering lock. Also said to turn off the wheel so it wouldn't annoy me. However, I have no idea what steering lock is, even though I thought I did. I thought under the car setup menu after an event starts, go to the overall view of your car, and turn differential lock to 30% I think. That's what I do, and set it to full 900*. Oh also, I tried taking the training wheels off, no traction or stability control, jno auto clutch. If I thought I sucked before, I suck so much worse now.

I definitely look forward to spending a lot of time. So far in the 7 days I've had it, I've put in 2 - 4 hours a night, and it will probably continue until next semester in 3 months continuous play every night after coming home. So, I'm set. Got that free key Guy suggested, now I need to a copy of the game to use the legit key on.

Thanks for the recommendations about the Time Attack. WIll look into it. Currently, working on LFS's demo tracks for training, after playing a few hours of TDU, I got 1 Quick on the Acceleration, and OK on the salom course and Braking course on LFS. Really a lot of fun.

I was looking at the skip barber videos by iRacing, but of course they aren't free. I'm debating if a 3 months for the price of one is worth it at this point. I don't want to go just forl training, and I don't want to be a blundering idiot on even the beginner tracks just yet. So stuff to think about.

GTR Evo is awesome, really it is. So is LFS, lots of fun. I've haven't spent too much time on Racer though, no cockpit veiw, though I like the lambo!

Everyone might think its odd, but I'm really trying to spend a ton of time on these perdals, so I do notice a difference on the new ones, you know, whenever Fanatec gets their inventory. Which I have no idea when. Surprisingly, I can wait. These pedals are pretty awesome! I can only imagine how much better the CSR-E pedals are.

Overall, what a kickass sport. The only other thing I look forward to is Mechwarrior Online.
 
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Wait. typo, I don't know why I was talking about the differential lock. its at the bottom, yeah I changed from 15 up to 25 as per recommended.

Great idea with the time attacks. 2006 track, Porta I beleive its name was, with a BMW from the GT club cars, on novice settings, went from 3:50 to 2: 45 in three laps. Definitely saw improvement, as I was racing against myself.

Overtaking in LFS's blackwood track with the GTI was next to impossible, just to pass the blue car! Sequential + clutch though, didn't think I could stomach 6 grear.
 
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Great idea with the time attacks. 2006 track, Porta I beleive its name was, with a BMW from the GT club cars, on novice settings, went from 3:50 to 2: 45 in three laps. Definitely saw improvement, as I was racing against myself.
.

Yep, don't underestimate braking points and racing line:)
Also, with novice settings, if you read about how to drive a racing car, even something basic, you should be able to ditch them fairly quickly, then the game really comes to life...
 
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