What Speaker Configuration do you use on your Sim Rig?

Initially I installed full 5.1, but I'm realizing that sim titles don't really support it. "Derived Surround" is available in my amp but it doesn't add much, so I'm thinking of going to a simple L/R plus the sub. This will significantly reduce my footprint, eliminating the rear speaker stands which are placed well back to allow movement of the V3 seat.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the various speaker placements for sim sound.

Thanks in advance!
 
Headphones are a very good option for many and I understand why they're used. But I'm single and in a well-insulated house, so noise levels are kind of a non-issue. I also tend to run my stereo/home theater rather loud, and so far none of the neighbors has arrived with a pitchfork in hand lol.

I was hoping to simplify, but after more testing it does seem that AC has a pretty accurate sound model. I'm going to do some more fiddling with a single slow AI car, getting him at various locations in respect to my car and see just how good it is.
 
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So AC has no active sub channel? That's very disappointing if true. I have Dayton sub ready to push into service!
Correct. Neither does AMS, pCARS2, R3E, nor rF2. Wreckfest does have one.

I don't yet have ACC (because triple screens), so can't say whether it does or doesn't.
 
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So AC has no active sub channel? That's very disappointing if true. I have Dayton sub ready to push into service!

You could duplicate the stereo out, combine it into mono if your sub only has one input and you’ll be fine. Then use the crossover of the sub.

Alternatively its possible to have a separate soundcard mirror the primary audio which you could do and then use this additional card individually for the sub and boosting the low frequency bass output via this soundcards EQ.
 
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The lack of a discrete sub channel is not a problem. Sounds this low are non-directional so all you need is a crossover, which is always available in a 5.1 amp and often in a sub amp too.
 
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The lack of a discrete sub channel is not a problem. Sounds this low are non-directional so all you need is a crossover, which is always available in a 5.1 amp and often in a sub amp too.

The problem is many titles to get the best out of the deep bass requires boosting the lowest frequencies. So using EQ is vital for best results. This may be on the soundcard, amp for the sub or additional hardware.

I spent a long time looking at this regards improving "audio-tactile" from games. Yet in this scenario, we don't want to boost the primary audio for the main listening device (speakers or headphones) but only to increase the bass for Buttkicker or subwoofer usage.

It certainly improved things for me anyways when boosting under 20Hz.
 
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The lack of a discrete sub channel is not a problem. Sounds this low are non-directional so all you need is a crossover, which is always available in a 5.1 amp and often in a sub amp too.
Yes and no. If crossover is too high, you will definitely spot the subwoofer. If you keep the frequency to below 80Hz, you will be fine. Most mini to micro sub-satellite have a crossover at 120Hz or even higher. It would be advisable to keep the sub on the same axis as the front speakers at least.
//smart-ass mode off. :D
 
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Yes and no. If crossover is too high, you will definitely spot the subwoofer. If you keep the frequency to below 80Hz, you will be fine. Most mini to micro sub-satellite have a crossover at 120Hz or even higher. It would be advisable to keep the sub on the same axis as the front speakers at least.
//smart-ass mode off. :D
Yes, this is a very good point. There are some "subwoofers" out there that really aren't capable of true sub range, and these are quite directional.
 
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It depends more on your satellite speakers, if they are able to go down to 80Hz with adequate linearity (and level) @Wmacky. You don't want a "dent" at 120-80Hz in your frequency response of your speaker set. :geek:
Exactly! This is why my speakers are 'classic', rather than modern home theater speakers, because they have 10" woofers and flat response down to 30 Hz.
 
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Apart from Wreckfest, the subwoofer does diddly-squat in racing games/sims, because the usual racing games/sims have no LFE channel like movies and video games do. Consequently, I'm considering moving the subwoofer over to the TV area.
I picked up ACC today in the Steam sale. It doesn't seem to have any specific LFE outputs, but the bass is boosted enough that the subwoofer is adding a little to what my speakers alone produce. With my speakers, not enough to justify the subwoofer's presence, but if your system has weak bass, then a subwoofer will help fill the spectrum in ACC.
 
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I picked up ACC today in the Steam sale. It doesn't seem to have any specific LFE outputs, but the bass is boosted enough that the subwoofer is adding a little to what my speakers alone produce. With my speakers, not enough to justify the subwoofer's presence, but if your system has weak bass, then a subwoofer will help fill the spectrum in ACC.

Definitely seek to use Parametric EQ to be able to boost and fine-tune only the bass for the sub or transducers without affecting the primary audio device. Combining decent transducers/shakers with subs will also greatly increase the immersion with bass for the games' audio effects.

Crossover control on its own is not enough, there is untapped bass below 20Hz if a person has the hardware that can extend its output. I recommend people do some tests and comparisons.
 
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Crossover control on its own is not enough, there is untapped bass below 20Hz if a person has the hardware that can extend its output. I recommend people do some tests and comparisons.
Most racing sims do not have untapped bass. This is the downshifting spectrum from the Panoz in PC2, one of my favorite cockpit sounds with a low V8 exhaust note, and you'll see that it's dead below 40 Hz. At 20 Hz, it is -20 dB from the sound peak, a full 100x quieter than the sound peak. AC, AMS, and rF2 do no better. I haven't checked Raceroom's spectrum, but my ear says it does no better.
Spectrum - PC2 - Panoz downshifting.PNG


ACC is a bit of an exception. This is the BMW's cockpit spectrum, both upshifting and downshifting. You can see it is alive below 20 Hz. Unfortunately, the sound energy comes from annoying cabin harmonics (possibly artificially boosted since you can see a straight slope in the graph) rather than anything motorheads find enjoyable. While there is sound below 40 Hz, most of us would probably rather not hear it in this case!
Spectrum - ACC - BMW accelerate and downshifting.PNG


By the way, anybody can easily make these graphs using the free Audacity program.
 
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Most racing sims do not have untapped bass. This is the downshifting spectrum from the Panoz in PC2, one of my favorite cockpit sounds with a low V8 exhaust note, and you'll see that it's dead below 40 Hz. At 20 Hz, it is -20 dB from the sound peak, a full 100x quieter than the sound peak. AC, AMS, and rF2 do no better. I haven't checked Raceroom's spectrum, but my ear says it does no better.
View attachment 336509

ACC is a bit of an exception. This is the BMW's cockpit spectrum, both upshifting and downshifting. You can see it is alive below 20 Hz. Unfortunately, the sound energy comes from annoying cabin harmonics (possibly artificially boosted since you can see a straight slope in the graph) rather than anything motorheads find enjoyable. While there is sound below 40 Hz, most of us would probably rather not hear it in this case!
View attachment 336511

By the way, anybody can easily make these graphs using the free Audacity program.

From general experience with tests mainly only involving AC and ACC. What I can say is that lots of cars idle sensation will have low bass rumble and their own character from engine or transmission sounds. Some car sound mods are really good too.

A "gearshift" may not be the best example for low bass usage from sim-game audio. Also better perhaps to see the output at 0dB, to then see what Hz are +/- with realtime changes being made.

As said (if you boost the bass) for the lowest frequencies, it can make a big difference with some cars.
Unlike just using the soundcards EQ, with additional PEQ software/hardware we can boost or cut exact frequencies and use a preferred slope for any desired crossover.

Now, of course with game audio, we cant apply such to only single sound elements (eg: gear change) but it is possible to monitor the frequencies some sound effects use. Then with tactile transducers, potentially used in a role to boost (specific frequencies) the preferred/desired audio effects may use.

I come mainly from the tactile perspective here more than subwoofer usage but any bass sounds, be it from speakers or headphones, having nice felt bass (via tactile) used with good audible bass, makes it all more enjoyable and entertaining. For me personally both compliment each other fantastically in extending the immersion but I do prefer or feel more immersed with good headphones and being 1-1 with the audio than speakers.

What can be done, well It really depends how far into this a user wants to go.
These days with an iPad and a USB multichannel interface with free or affordable software is quite amazing.



Using EQ software like ProQ3 and Signal Scope X for monitoring the audio (or many other options available) is very impressive but certainly not hardware most sim users will consider. If routing audio into such hardware, it can give full DAW control via loads of professional plugins, even "subharmonic synthesizer" if desired.

This will generate lower harmonics to what the "original audio contains". Typically 1 or 2 octaves below the original fundamental frequency.

I have a couple of these laying around that I bought a few years ago, might be fun to play around with or find more modern digital plugins to use. (video gives an example in subharmonics)


I don't expect many people will go to such lengths, not at all..... On my own build, the "audio soundstage", as well as the "tactile immersion" with control of it for improved immersion, is a major focus but its also kinda a hobby in its own too.

I look forward to digging deeper into some sim titles audio in the future.
 
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