David Garcia
Premium
Hello,
just wanted to know what the tiitle says. Is this already an Alpha?
Cheers!
just wanted to know what the tiitle says. Is this already an Alpha?
Cheers!
What is the current progress of the sim?
- Thread starter David Garcia
- Start date
What in the world are you saying? You are so clueless it's not even funny, go read a book.
I'm proving to you that it's all to do with the core graphics engine itself, and not wether it's dx9 or dx11.
As project cars proves. As metro 2033 proves. As the Witcher 2 proves. As battlefield bad company 2 proves. As hard reset proves. Etc etc etc etc.
Those games, and many more look beautiful without dx11. So that proves that to have beautiful graphics, does not require dx11, but just a beautiful graphics engine
Not saying that dx11 isn't welcome, but slapping dx11 on the current graphics engine won't change it too much, you have to change the base graphics engine itself if you want a big change.
On top of this, simulations use much more of our computers' processing power to work on physics stuff. Regular games are MUCH MUCH MUCH simpler in the game world's physics simulations, and things are much more scripted and Pre-defined (like battlefielde 3's "fake" scripted building damage) rather than truly dynamically calculated.
So maybe you are the one stuck in consoles and big budget triple a video game titles, where everything going on ingame is extremely dumbed down and simplified, and many things are scripted and pre-defined
I'm proving to you that it's all to do with the core graphics engine itself, and not wether it's dx9 or dx11.
As project cars proves. As metro 2033 proves. As the Witcher 2 proves. As battlefield bad company 2 proves. As hard reset proves. Etc etc etc etc.
Those games, and many more look beautiful without dx11. So that proves that to have beautiful graphics, does not require dx11, but just a beautiful graphics engine
Not saying that dx11 isn't welcome, but slapping dx11 on the current graphics engine won't change it too much, you have to change the base graphics engine itself if you want a big change.
On top of this, simulations use much more of our computers' processing power to work on physics stuff. Regular games are MUCH MUCH MUCH simpler in the game world's physics simulations, and things are much more scripted and Pre-defined (like battlefielde 3's "fake" scripted building damage) rather than truly dynamically calculated.
So maybe you are the one stuck in consoles and big budget triple a video game titles, where everything going on ingame is extremely dumbed down and simplified, and many things are scripted and pre-defined
kelaroost & Marco80 Can you guys please stay on topic and not try to bite eachother's head off.
Comparing games with dx 9 (2002~) and/or dx 11 (2007~) which one of you thinks looks great and the other one thinks it looks terrible....
rFactor2 is using dx 9 and still doesn't use the full posibilities of that engine....
Maybe they need the calculation power of the cpu for the physics of the game. Why not use the GPU for he graphics more?? ISI made these choices, so we just get what they give us. End of story.
Maybe rFactor3 (if it will ever be developped) might be using dx 11 or 12 or 13.
Comparing games with dx 9 (2002~) and/or dx 11 (2007~) which one of you thinks looks great and the other one thinks it looks terrible....
rFactor2 is using dx 9 and still doesn't use the full posibilities of that engine....
Maybe they need the calculation power of the cpu for the physics of the game. Why not use the GPU for he graphics more?? ISI made these choices, so we just get what they give us. End of story.
Maybe rFactor3 (if it will ever be developped) might be using dx 11 or 12 or 13.
World of Warcraft is now DX11 and looks exactly the same apart from the fact that the draw distance is now greater and more detail can be seen further away, the graphics engine is still the same engine though and the game still looks like World of Warcraft. The major graphical improvements it has recieved over the years look just the same in DX9 mode.
Though the Unreal engine demo's are always very impressive (even the Unreal 3 engine), the actual games that spawn from them are not all that amazing in practice due to hardware limitations and development costs with games being heavily based on what consoles can handle. As for racing games being behind the times, GT5 is still one of the best looking games on the PS3, it couldn't be any more in with the times, and while many of the PC sim racing sims like Rfactor 2 aren't pushing the way graphically, there are people who are able to make amazing looking content with it, though that quality is certaintly not there for the majority of content it does show that it's possible with Rfactor 2 and DX9. Project Cars is leading the way in pushing racing game graphics forward on the PC, even if some people dislike the graphical style it uses, it is pushing boundries graphically.
Speaking about Rfactor 3 is really unrealistic. This is a small dev company who are working at a slow pace for Rfactor 2, a game we all probably thought would have been finished and released by now, Rfactor 3 at best is probably near 10 years away, thats even assuming a game like that can survive in the changing world of gaming.
Though the Unreal engine demo's are always very impressive (even the Unreal 3 engine), the actual games that spawn from them are not all that amazing in practice due to hardware limitations and development costs with games being heavily based on what consoles can handle. As for racing games being behind the times, GT5 is still one of the best looking games on the PS3, it couldn't be any more in with the times, and while many of the PC sim racing sims like Rfactor 2 aren't pushing the way graphically, there are people who are able to make amazing looking content with it, though that quality is certaintly not there for the majority of content it does show that it's possible with Rfactor 2 and DX9. Project Cars is leading the way in pushing racing game graphics forward on the PC, even if some people dislike the graphical style it uses, it is pushing boundries graphically.
Speaking about Rfactor 3 is really unrealistic. This is a small dev company who are working at a slow pace for Rfactor 2, a game we all probably thought would have been finished and released by now, Rfactor 3 at best is probably near 10 years away, thats even assuming a game like that can survive in the changing world of gaming.
Marco Bijl
Axe Travels
People,
This thread is about the progress of rfactor2, not to compare it to any other freaking game around. Lets stay on topic please, and leave the comparisations out. Comparing a single aspect of a game (only graphics, and not all the rest of the functionalities) is not a fair way of comparing. This thread is not to discuss the graphical capabiliteits of all platforms, engines and what so ever. It's about the progres of rfactor2. There is a lot more going on with that game then just graphics. If you want superb high end graphics, go rent a HD movie.
In terms of the discussion,
rfactor2 is developing. It will probably do so for quite some time. The pace of development is not very high, because the game has low priority for the developer. It's a second buisnes of the company, and not it's primary focus. Keep that in mind.
As long as the basic functionality of the game is not fully operational and implemented, the game will remain in BETA. My guess is that it will be so for at least 6 more months, but I will not be surprised if it will take even longer, like another year orso. When the game goes gold (so it's officially released) development still will continue.
Also, please do not forget that the majority of good content is oftenly made by the community, and not by the game developer. With this specific game, one of the starting points is to have modders around who make the content, and expansions to the game. So the bigger modding teams will make the quality content, but again, once the game is released. Basic functions keep changing attt the moment, and those big modders are also humans, who do not like to develop things twice, or even more. So do not expect the premium content before a official release of the game.
For now its simple.
If you want a high end game, finsihed and all, do NOT start with rfactor2.
If you want to have a great driving experience, and can live with some flaws, bugs and less graphical quality, rfactor2 is THE game for you to buy.
I have said this many, many times the last year, and I have read this being said by others as well. So, if you keep to this selection criteria, all should be fine, and no disapointments should be there for you.
This thread is about the progress of rfactor2, not to compare it to any other freaking game around. Lets stay on topic please, and leave the comparisations out. Comparing a single aspect of a game (only graphics, and not all the rest of the functionalities) is not a fair way of comparing. This thread is not to discuss the graphical capabiliteits of all platforms, engines and what so ever. It's about the progres of rfactor2. There is a lot more going on with that game then just graphics. If you want superb high end graphics, go rent a HD movie
.In terms of the discussion,
rfactor2 is developing. It will probably do so for quite some time. The pace of development is not very high, because the game has low priority for the developer. It's a second buisnes of the company, and not it's primary focus. Keep that in mind.
As long as the basic functionality of the game is not fully operational and implemented, the game will remain in BETA. My guess is that it will be so for at least 6 more months, but I will not be surprised if it will take even longer, like another year orso. When the game goes gold (so it's officially released) development still will continue.
Also, please do not forget that the majority of good content is oftenly made by the community, and not by the game developer. With this specific game, one of the starting points is to have modders around who make the content, and expansions to the game. So the bigger modding teams will make the quality content, but again, once the game is released. Basic functions keep changing attt the moment, and those big modders are also humans, who do not like to develop things twice, or even more. So do not expect the premium content before a official release of the game.
For now its simple.
If you want a high end game, finsihed and all, do NOT start with rfactor2.
If you want to have a great driving experience, and can live with some flaws, bugs and less graphical quality, rfactor2 is THE game for you to buy.
I have said this many, many times the last year, and I have read this being said by others as well. So, if you keep to this selection criteria, all should be fine, and no disapointments should be there for you.
Graphics is obviously an important factor to a lot of players, and comparing to other games is the only benchmark, what did you expect? You certaintly can't expect a thread to go how you want it to go or to stay civil when discussing things people feel passionate about, go take a look at the Project Cars thread from a few months ago with it going in all different directions, full on troll wars, flaming and badmouthing the game with mods joining in and all.
But you can't have a conversation about Rfactor 2 that might put it under scrutiny? The game has been in beta for almost a year now and progress has been slow, it has been 7 years since the original Rfactor and over 3 years since the game was announced.
Current progress of the game is slow and people do have reason to be annoyed or disapointed, there is a lot more competition in the sim racing world now and Rfactor 2 cannot realistically thrive as the original did by using the same model. I'm not saying it won't do well, but I would be surprised if people suddenly flock to play the game when it's finished.
The way mods work with the game right now is not great, many mods requiring other mods or certain versions of other mods in order to run, meaning you end up with mismatches all over the place, updating one mod can break another one. The UI in the game is fairly terrible also, doesn't make it easy to manage your content. It is also buggy in that sometimes you uninstall a mod and it will linger in the game even though it doesnt exist, so you have crap that gets left around the place.
But you can't have a conversation about Rfactor 2 that might put it under scrutiny? The game has been in beta for almost a year now and progress has been slow, it has been 7 years since the original Rfactor and over 3 years since the game was announced.
Current progress of the game is slow and people do have reason to be annoyed or disapointed, there is a lot more competition in the sim racing world now and Rfactor 2 cannot realistically thrive as the original did by using the same model. I'm not saying it won't do well, but I would be surprised if people suddenly flock to play the game when it's finished.
The way mods work with the game right now is not great, many mods requiring other mods or certain versions of other mods in order to run, meaning you end up with mismatches all over the place, updating one mod can break another one. The UI in the game is fairly terrible also, doesn't make it easy to manage your content. It is also buggy in that sometimes you uninstall a mod and it will linger in the game even though it doesnt exist, so you have crap that gets left around the place.
Marco Bijl
Axe Travels
Ryan,
First section of your post exactly reflects the reason I made mine. This thread is NOT going to be a flame war, or whatever as the other one you are refering to.
The rest of your post is exactly the way I would like to see the discussion go. You are refering to several aspects of the game and it's development, which are imo under the level they should be. Thats progress discussion, and you haven't made a cmparisation to another game. Thats what I want to see. Talking about facts, and not the idea how people experience a game. Thats a whole different discussion.
In terms of my demands on how this thread goes, I can make those demands. Thats the thing of being the admin Instead of waiting until it derails, I interviene before it does.
Back on topic,
Yes, you can be very critical about the progress, or the game itself. You are entitled to your own point of view, and are able to express that. The points you use as arguments in your last point, are just about all very valid points, and I can't (and will not) disagree on that.
However, you all have had a choice to purchase a BETA version of a game, and should all have the right expectancy about the game. Sure, you an be disapointed with the progress which is understandable, but still, there has never been a concrete date of release for this game. ISI stated from the beginning that the game will NOT go into gold status, before it's finished. Anyone with a bit of pre-knowledge of ISI, and they way they work, could have known that that could never be within those 6 months initially given.
The problem I have with the whole graphics discussion, is that you can't compare 2 different games with each other. As every dot or line on your screen has to be rendered and calculated, there are a lot of factors which can be of influence. So, if the processor is used for other features, it has less time to do graphic renders. How much of the processors is assigned to graphics, and how much to other features, is a choice a platform developer has to make. This automaticly means that, in case you have a lot of other "calcuations" to do, you have less for the graphics. It could be that ISI has valued their graphical impression lower then other platform developers do. In that case, you will never have the same quality. As said in my previous post, you cant compare a single aspect of a game, without looking at it's other features. I know people think that they have the biggest NASA computer to play their games on, and that it has unlimited calcuation powers, but unfortunately thats not true. Developers have to make choices for that.
That mod thing you are mentioning is indeed a pain in the ass. At least, in the current form it is. There can be multiple reasons for the current way it works, and why ISI has not changed it (yet?). There has been stated before that the whole system will be evaluated later on, and perhaps changed. But for now, it stays. Does this help in getting multiplayer servers full? Nope, it does not. But then again, ISI has no priority in delivering a multiplater game now, as it's still in BETA.
Basicaly, all we can do at this point is waiting. Waiting until the game is released, and hope that they will change those nasty things they have introduced in this game.
Will it be a succes? I can't tell. Not yet at least. If they make some right choices, yes it will be a succes. It surely has the potential to become the best simracing platform out at this moment, but it still needs work, and some right actions.
If they continue to be as stubern as they are now, I fear the succes of rf2 will be less in the beginning, but will be there in the end. It is so much better (in terms of driving) then rf1, and that game was a huge succes as well. I am confident rf2 will be the same somewhere in the future. It is not now, but I a mcertain it will be.
First section of your post exactly reflects the reason I made mine
. This thread is NOT going to be a flame war, or whatever as the other one you are refering to.The rest of your post is exactly the way I would like to see the discussion go. You are refering to several aspects of the game and it's development, which are imo under the level they should be. Thats progress discussion, and you haven't made a cmparisation to another game. Thats what I want to see. Talking about facts, and not the idea how people experience a game. Thats a whole different discussion.
In terms of my demands on how this thread goes, I can make those demands. Thats the thing of being the admin
Instead of waiting until it derails, I interviene before it does.Back on topic,
Yes, you can be very critical about the progress, or the game itself. You are entitled to your own point of view, and are able to express that. The points you use as arguments in your last point, are just about all very valid points, and I can't (and will not) disagree on that.
However, you all have had a choice to purchase a BETA version of a game, and should all have the right expectancy about the game. Sure, you an be disapointed with the progress which is understandable, but still, there has never been a concrete date of release for this game. ISI stated from the beginning that the game will NOT go into gold status, before it's finished. Anyone with a bit of pre-knowledge of ISI, and they way they work, could have known that that could never be within those 6 months initially given.
The problem I have with the whole graphics discussion, is that you can't compare 2 different games with each other. As every dot or line on your screen has to be rendered and calculated, there are a lot of factors which can be of influence. So, if the processor is used for other features, it has less time to do graphic renders. How much of the processors is assigned to graphics, and how much to other features, is a choice a platform developer has to make. This automaticly means that, in case you have a lot of other "calcuations" to do, you have less for the graphics. It could be that ISI has valued their graphical impression lower then other platform developers do. In that case, you will never have the same quality. As said in my previous post, you cant compare a single aspect of a game, without looking at it's other features. I know people think that they have the biggest NASA computer to play their games on, and that it has unlimited calcuation powers, but unfortunately thats not true
. Developers have to make choices for that.That mod thing you are mentioning is indeed a pain in the ass. At least, in the current form it is. There can be multiple reasons for the current way it works, and why ISI has not changed it (yet?). There has been stated before that the whole system will be evaluated later on, and perhaps changed. But for now, it stays. Does this help in getting multiplayer servers full? Nope, it does not. But then again, ISI has no priority in delivering a multiplater game now, as it's still in BETA.
Basicaly, all we can do at this point is waiting. Waiting until the game is released, and hope that they will change those nasty things they have introduced in this game.
Will it be a succes? I can't tell. Not yet at least. If they make some right choices, yes it will be a succes. It surely has the potential to become the best simracing platform out at this moment, but it still needs work, and some right actions.
If they continue to be as stubern as they are now, I fear the succes of rf2 will be less in the beginning, but will be there in the end. It is so much better (in terms of driving) then rf1, and that game was a huge succes as well. I am confident rf2 will be the same somewhere in the future. It is not now, but I a mcertain it will be.
kelaroost
@Simberia
There is no benifit in limiting yourself to a old style of programing.
software companies move with the times utilising the hardware thats available such as duel core or quad core processors with there multithreading computer architecture.
Gpu physx and ambient occlution with tessellation on the ground surface eventually even ray tracing.
Why limit yourself.
software companies move with the times utilising the hardware thats available such as duel core or quad core processors with there multithreading computer architecture.
Gpu physx and ambient occlution with tessellation on the ground surface eventually even ray tracing.
Why limit yourself.
I'll take top notch physics over pretty graphics any day.
Marco Bijl
Axe Travels
Me to Jamie. But fact is that we have to respect the desires and wishes of those who DO want graphics as well.... And seen the fact that it IS possible to combine those factors, we simply have to wait to see how progress develops.
Key message in this, is that it is still BETA, so do not expect a perfect game. In all aspects.
Key message in this, is that it is still BETA, so do not expect a perfect game. In all aspects.
Just to add, when i am racing in that cockpit all I am looking for is the apex of the corner, do I see the back ground NO do I see the grandstand NO, do I see even one tree NO, I see these things on a replay only. Imo there is no difference between Dx9 or 11 apart from the use for your system. Pretty looking games are most often classed as Arcade (consoles) games mainly. Step up to a Sim and see / Try a sim, I totally understand why the PC rules and its not all about Graphics but the realism of the Sim. The feel of it via your wheel and ffb, Also the community tho small is fantastic,
Personally we are are lucky to even have such an open beta for public use in rfactor2, and my money will stay in there account while they develop the game.
Personally we are are lucky to even have such an open beta for public use in rfactor2, and my money will stay in there account while they develop the game.
Current progress is Bad{capital B}.
Horrible FFB on many cars with G27, pendulum physics+ice grip levels make this an ongoing joke for me.
Horrible FFB on many cars with G27, pendulum physics+ice grip levels make this an ongoing joke for me.
The only joke is you and your blatant fanboyism.
Whether you remember or not, I was a promoter of rf2 when it first came out, but they've failed to make this sim work properly with a G27{never said it's undrivable}, so as I keep saying, just wait and see what happens when it goes gold in this state.
Atm, there's a billion fanboys defending everything ISI say or do, but after gold, there's gonna be tonnes of unhappy G27/Logitech owners.
I'm not a fanboy I like all sims that excel in the area that they were designed to excel in, which is driving, and RFactor 2 even in beta with it's tyre model not fully activated already excels like hell in that area.
The g27 doesn't have problems, unlike every other sim out there, RFactor 2 outputs pure UNFILTERED ffb. Most (or all, not sure) gear driven wheels being, well gear-driven, can't handle this. So RFactor 2's pure ffb shows the flaw of gear driven wheels. But wait, for anyone who has a gear driven wheel, ISI has included an option to adjust it's filtering, so that it's filtered and just like any other sim or game out there.
So the options are there if you want to add and adjust filtering levels, and I myself have a G25 which some people say is even slightly stronger than the G27, and it works beautifully, and I know 2 people in real life and have read many people on forums and other places online that say their g25/g27 works beautifully aswell. So clearly the issues on your end pal.
I know LOTS of happy G27 rFactor 2 customers and you're the only whining one I know of...
Marco Bijl
Axe Travels
Keep it decent people... Respect each other please.
The G27 had issues in the beginning, but there are several work arounds and adjustments for it. I drive with a G25, and have no problems at all. FFB is awesome for me.
The G27 had issues in the beginning, but there are several work arounds and adjustments for it. I drive with a G25, and have no problems at all. FFB is awesome for me.
Well here's another ( G25) whiner then.
The implementation of FFB in most major games right now is a joke.
When everyone started clamoring that real feel was the best thing since sliced bread it sent the world of FFB spiralling downward.
Even with the filtering option it's awful in rFactor 2, and I'm not prepared to get another wheel to replace it yet.
The implementation of FFB in most major games right now is a joke.
When everyone started clamoring that real feel was the best thing since sliced bread it sent the world of FFB spiralling downward.
Even with the filtering option it's awful in rFactor 2, and I'm not prepared to get another wheel to replace it yet.
G27 user, no problem with FFB
You have the filtering option in UI and also this line in your controller ini
Off-road multiplier="0.08000" // Temporary test variable to reduce force feedback strength off-road (0.0 = zero FFB, 1.0 = full FFB)
Maybe not the perfect solution for off road but it works
You have the filtering option in UI and also this line in your controller ini
Off-road multiplier="0.08000" // Temporary test variable to reduce force feedback strength off-road (0.0 = zero FFB, 1.0 = full FFB)
Maybe not the perfect solution for off road but it works
Marco Bijl
Axe Travels
Well, it's kinda simple. How the FFB is experienced, is a personal feeling. And as with all personal feelings, it's impossible to create one that suits all....
So, the FFB is experienced differently by all. Also has to do with expectations. High expectations, give lower ratings.
In terms of rf2, some will like it, some will not. Some will like it with a specific (set of) car(s), some will like it with all, some with none. Can't change that.
All I know for sure, is that it's taking to long. There is no real date known when it's expected to be in gold status, instead of developing, mods are created, and the core is not even finished. To me, it sounds like a mess up of priorities. But then again, I am not a succesfull game developer, so who am I to complain. I enjoy that whats available now, and patiently wait. I mean, lets face it, we survived the end of the world, so what could possibly happen to us The game will come in gold, I am sure of that. And when it does, it probably will take at least another year for the real potential to come out. I strongly believe the best in the game will be made by modders. So lets patiently wait, and see what it goes to.
So, the FFB is experienced differently by all. Also has to do with expectations. High expectations, give lower ratings.
In terms of rf2, some will like it, some will not. Some will like it with a specific (set of) car(s), some will like it with all, some with none. Can't change that.
All I know for sure, is that it's taking to long
. There is no real date known when it's expected to be in gold status, instead of developing, mods are created, and the core is not even finished. To me, it sounds like a mess up of priorities. But then again, I am not a succesfull game developer, so who am I to complain. I enjoy that whats available now, and patiently wait. I mean, lets face it, we survived the end of the world, so what could possibly happen to us The game will come in gold, I am sure of that. And when it does, it probably will take at least another year for the real potential to come out. I strongly believe the best in the game will be made by modders. So lets patiently wait, and see what it goes to.
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