What is the best combination of sim racing hardware actually? Budget: 10.000€

[Danpavese]

Hi everybody!

Thanks in advance for all the options that you can advice to me.
I've so much doubt about the best combination that is possible to do, with a dynamic stand.

That is my actually 'best' idea for about 10.000€.

Wheel: Simucube 2 pro + F1's Wheel (from augurysimulation) = 2000€
Pedal set: so much doubt actually, maybe HE's ultimate, HPP PRX, Wave Impetus, Tilton, Richmotec or other? = about 1500€ or more
VR: ? I don't know nothing about them, but I tried triple screen and I don't like it.
A good VR I think can cost about 500€, isn't it?

Full motion simulator: (at least 3 DOF, with loss traction), I'm watching for the combo of SFX-100 (about 2000€) + NLRv3 (about 3000€), that I'm trying to understand if it is really good. What I have understood, is that with this combo, I don't need a rig, but only a seat, right? Because SFX-100 is like a rig I thought.

If this combo is not so good for the price (about 5000€), what can be a better choice for about this price (if 6000-7000 is not important, but it need to worth it), specially if it is 'ready to use'.

Processor and graphic card: suggest? Without exceed with performance, just to run all the most common racing games very good (Iracing include)

Thank for all the tips and advice!

 

[metalnwood]

Everyone has covered it all except the NLR motion and the SFX.

Dont stack the NLR on top of the SFX. If you really want to spend an additional 3000 to stack motion on motion then you should really only be looking at the GS5 Gseat as an appropriate addition to SFX style motion. It 's big thing will complement the SFX very well where the NLR is mostly competing to do the same thing in a different way.

Honestly, if you are trying to budget then completely forget about the GS5 or NLR and put that money towards the PC that will will absolutely need for VR.

With your budget and goals you should be fitting in a 1080ti minimum/equivilent which I think is a 2080 super. You should be going for later gen intel that you can OC to 5ghz.

I have both hpp and HE ultimates, just for maintenance I would go with HE. They will not require the kind of servicing and downtime that hydraulics will at some point.

with your budget I would go for VR, the PC it requires. simlabs P1, a good seat, HE pedals, SC2 , wheel rim of your choice.

If you have $$ left over then SFX motion. In my opinion it would be a mistake to compromise the other choices to leave funds to buy two kinds of different motion.

 

[Danpavese]

Trying to answer to everybody... xD

 

[Danpavese]

(Previos message was left for error, but I can't delete it, I don't know how to do).

Trying to answer to everybody... xD

All of you adviced me about the importance of PC hardware, and I fully agree with you. In fact, now my first option will be a top CPU/GPU, to run correctly the VR.

Thanks everybody for it!

I have a couple of questions:
- Why do you want the HE Ultimates? It's double the price of HE Sprints, but not twice as good. You can save a lot of Euros here (Note: I own HE Ultimates and in terms of performance, Sprints are more than good enough).

- SimLab P1-X is a fantastic rig, but may be more than you need. Weight is the enemy of chassis motion platforms. The heavier the rig, the harder your motion actuators need to work, or else you may need to buy more expensive, higher capacity actuators.

P1-X weighs 55kgs. If you don't need all that the P1-X provides then you can save weight, money and possibly improve motion actuator longevity by purchasing a different, lighter chassis.

- I know that He Ultimates are twice the He Sprints, but I tried He Pro (that I consider similar to sprint), and I don't like the brake... it was so 'light' to press for me. So, the 136 Kg of brake pression of ultimate's, worth the money in my idea. But maybe I can try them before buying.

- Ok I appreciate your doubt. Infact I thought the same, but I really don't know so much about rig. I always read about wheel and pedals, but not so much about rig. Have you some suggest about it?

Everyone has covered it all except the NLR motion and the SFX.

Dont stack the NLR on top of the SFX. If you really want to spend an additional 3000 to stack motion on motion then you should really only be looking at the GS5 Gseat as an appropriate addition to SFX style motion. It 's big thing will complement the SFX very well where the NLR is mostly competing to do the same thing in a different way.

For this, you make me so confused D:

I'm studying the combination of SFX with NLRv3... because I think they will have a fantastic future together.

So you're saying me to learning about SFX with GS5 combination? Is it possible? And is it better than SFX+V3?

I don't know when, of sure after some month at least, but I really want a motion simulator to improve sim-racing immersion experience. So, also if now it is secondary, i would learn all about the best solution of 'low-cost' motion simulator!

So... thanks to all that can help me with this choice

For other things, I have understood what to do (specially for PC built). Now I miss rig+seat and motion simulation! Thanks for this again!

 

[metalnwood]

Regarding the HE pedals, sprints vs ultimates.

I said this to someone else too. Both have a nice clutch and accelerator. 2x the price nicer? probably not but one thing you cannot get with the sprints is the heavy braking.

If you are used to lighter pedals and go to the sprints you would probably be ok. I was surprised trying the sprints for the first time how easily I could max them out and hit the 65kg braking pressure.

So 2x the price or not, for some the ultimates will be the only option.

 

[Beef36]

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[Danpavese]

If you are used to lighter pedals and go to the sprints you would probably be ok. I was surprised trying the sprints for the first time how easily I could max them out and hit the 65kg braking pressure.

So 2x the price or not, for some the ultimates will be the only option.

Yes, the problem was exactly this.

SimXperience GS-5 motion seat also simulates the same DoF as SFX-100 and NLR v3 but crucially it also performs G-Force simulation and that is the key to adding the GS-5 onto a chassis motion platform.

Let the SFX-100 to use its superior motion capabilities for pitch, roll, heave and leave the GS-5 to simulate G-Force.

You also want tactile vibration but I've heard SFX-100 does that too.

Notwithstanding all this, based on your budget, I'd recommend you add multiple tactile transducers onto your sim rig and seat for now and add motion / G-Force in the future.

In relation to HE Ultimates, if you really expect to fully use its brake capabiliities then you should get the SimLab P1-X chassis with its super-rigid 160mm x 40mm base, as that added rigidity will help maximize your brake pedal use.

For He's Ultimates, I don't know if I really can use all the 136 kg brake pedal, but sure more than 65 kg brake pressure.
But yes, I can agree with your suggest to take SimLab P1-X chassis (is it compatible with SFX-100 and GS-5?).

For the combination of SFX-100 and GS-5, I have read much things today, so I think now it is better than SFX-100 and NLRv3 as you said. Probably I will take later, because the price growth so much now, but I will learn more about them in this time.

To the end, what do you means with:
"I'd recommend you add multiple tactile transducers onto your sim rig and seat for now and add motion / G-Force in the future."??

Maybe buttkicker? Seat Belt than react to G-force? Or what else? I don't know nothing about them

 

[EsxPaul]

It amazes me just how much brake force you guys generate.

I've got the sprints and when I calibrate the brake wearing socks, I only get up around the 18 kg mark. Even with shoes on, I only use about 23 kg max.

I'm wondering if my brain got so used the G29 pedals that I've almost tried to replicate what I've always been used to from the start?

Either that or I must have a limp leg

 

[Deleted member 197115]

It amazes me just how much brake force you guys generate.

I've got the sprints and when I calibrate the brake wearing socks, I only get up around the 18 kg mark. Even with shoes on, I only use about 23 kg max.

I'm wondering if my brain got so used the G29 pedals that I've almost tried to replicate what I've always been used to from the start?

Either that or I must have a limp leg

Same here. I use probably 80% of Pro wearing shoes. Wondering if it's just calibration issue.

 

[EsxPaul]

Same here. I use probably 80% of Pro wearing shoes. Wondering if it's just calibration issue.

Could well be? I know that if I tried to get anywhere near 65kg I would start to break my bucket seat away from its mounts.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Could well be? I know that if I tried to get anywhere near 65kg I would start to break my bucket seat away from its mounts.

FWIW, I was originally running about 54kg, but I've been running the full 65kg on my Sprints for a while now. I lock up the wheels or get into ABS way too easily in the heat of a race. I didn't expect to say this, but if HE ever updates the Ultimates to include their profile software I'll likely upgrade my brakes I think if I had about 80kg I'd probably be good to go, but I lift weights regularly and I'm currently pushing the highest weights I've ever pushed so it's possible over time I'll want more.

I had the brake maxed with the stock VW Passat seat and continue to do that with the racing shell. I was surprised that it is easier to modulate the brakes with a solid seat, but the give in the VW seat meant I effectively had additional travel because my seat was flexing back as I applied brakes.

I don't have the sense that any part of my rig is overly stressed.

 

[EsxPaul]

Thanks @RCHeliguy

I probably need to upgrade to a stronger seat by the sound of things. I've only got a very much bottom of the range Corbeau Club Sport and I can feel it flexing back if I really press the brake pedal with force. Damn it, yet another upgrade for the list

Sorry to the op for straying away from the original topic. I'll button my lip now.

 

[RCHeliguy]

My NGR Prisma is solid and honestly I don't think a seat is too far off topic, since you need a good anchor when you apply brakes. The angle of your seat and height of your pedals will impact the pressure that you exert on your brake pedal. Without a solid anchor your back will be working harder as well. If you are only pushing 23 kg in stocking feet, having a solid seat back will be much less of an issue.

 

[metalnwood]

My Sparco seat is rock solid, all the braking forces go directly to the brakes and nothing moves other than the brakes so that helps.

The other thing is your seating poisition. The lower your feet the harder it will will be apply a lot of force. The higher your feet the easier to transfer force.. Look at how you can move weights on a weight machine, its much closer to a f1 position and not much higher than some GT positions. Once you get to a regular car position you are more stoping down and dont have the leverage the seat could be giving you.

Dont know how much this applies to you though.

 

[metalnwood]

My Sparco seat is rock solid, all the braking forces go directly to the brakes and nothing moves other than the brakes so that helps.

The other thing is your seating poisition. The lower your feet the harder it will will be apply a lot of force. The higher your feet the easier to transfer force.. Look at how you can move weights on a weight machine, its much closer to a f1 position and not much higher than some GT positions. Once you get to a regular car position you are more stoping down and dont have the leverage the seat could be giving you.

Dont know how much this applies to you though.

Put it this way, if you can go to a squat position and stand back up without problem then you can easily push most than 23kg unless there is something else hindering it

 

[RCHeliguy]

Dont know how much this applies to you though.

I've got my seat back as far as it can go and I have raised my pedal deck quite a bit.
I'm not in an F1 position, but yeah the guy in the picture looks just like me

 

[bondyboy]

...

The article below is a good read, where if Ford's Performance Technical Center's factory simulator is not realistic, then no consumer motion platform is going to be either...

Below are some quotes:

"......Topography and surface grip don't really come through to the driver, so it feels like I'm driving a race car with problems. I can drive around those "problems," but I don't feel the car reacting anywhere close to the way a real race car would on the real track....

...As I climbed out of the virtual car for the final time, I relayed my thoughts to an engineer. He nodded and told me there's a technique for driving the simulator, and no, it isn't the same as in a real car. However, once really good sim pilots get used to the programs, they can repeat their driving behavior and "feel" the sim car just like a pro racer can feel an actual race car...

...But if you rank high on your favorite racing sim's or game's global online leaderboard and have never actually driven on a real racetrack, you're likely in for a big surprise when you actually do..."

They were just using the wrong motion rig

 

[Beef36]

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[metalnwood]

I like my tactile but since using the SFX I only use it for RPM. It certainly adds and complements the motion well.

If my budget only allowed me to start with one or the other I would go with the SFX first and add tactile second. If I could only have one and not the other I would certainly only go with the SFX. Tactile can do some things better, i.e. RPM as mentioned but I would not say thats a more important effect than what I get from motion.

I agree that if someone is unsure that a cheap tactile setup is a reasonable way to start. The only issue is that you really need quite an expensive one to get good results. At that point two things have happened in my experience. One is you are not getting great bang for buck and second is you have probably got more tactile than you may need once you add motion.

So my advise is probably the opposite. If you know you will get motion then jump in and get it first, you will probably save $$ as it will do for you better than 80% of what you would have used tactile for.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Put it this way, if you can go to a squat position and stand back up without problem then you can easily push most than 23kg unless there is something else hindering it

I squat ~400lb but my comfort zone with HE Pro is 80%, I think there are different muscles at play.
Plus some people may prefer more physical exertion playing, which has nothing to do with ability to control threshold braking, just personal preference.

 

[metalnwood]

yes, personal preference for sure.. I think I misread Pauls post as he obviously want saying that he can't push heavily but just doesn't have it set up to.

I have it heavier as I am probably not 'in the heat of the race' able to consistently manage finer motor/muscle control to get the full range of braking with a lighter foot.