What is So Wrong With This Lap? Help Me Out.

Bye_Ya · Jul 15, 2012

Hey guys, I have tried just about everything I can think of, and I am literally 5 seconds off of pole position pace with this kind of lap. I am pretty consistent with this as well - 1:39.5 is a very typical time for me when hotlapping at Shanghai.

I'm looking for some helpful criticism here because I'm about at my wit's end trying to improve on my time. I will always keep practicing, but I've just hit a rut now for a while on this circuit. I have studied as many onboard laps as I can find, trying to replicate the braking points and turn in's, and pole position pace is generally in the 1:34:4xx range. How can I possibly be 5 seconds off?

I understand that they had TC for a number of years, and if KERS or DRS is available in rFactor I also don't know how to map it to my wheel, so maybe it's possible that I'm losing this time due to not having those at my disposal. In any case, I would appreciate any help that the experienced F1 sim-drivers here may be able to offer.

If anyone is ever up for a practice, give me a shout as well.

William Levesque · Jul 15, 2012

You're not using enough of the track and you are waaaaaay too careful, almost feels like a formation lap at times... You've got to throw it in there, early on the gaz and go for it

Rhys Gardiner · Jul 15, 2012

It seems to me that you're braking about 25 metres earlier than you should be for many of the turns. You've got to really jump on the brakes and keep them pressed as far as you can without locking the wheels. For most turns it helps to get all your braking completed before turning in to a corner, but at Shanghai there are a few turns where you almost need to carry your braking right up to the turn's apex to set yourself up for the exit.

Another recommendation I could give is that you're taking a bit too easy into turn 1. I'd suggest giving the brakes a bit of a stab at about the 50m marker while downshifting to 5th, then carrying the car through the first half of the turn by modulating your throttle input slightly... somewhere between coasting and giving it 40% throttle. After the apex (or thereabouts) of the fast right-hander, straighten the car out, get on the brakes and allow the car to ease over to the left side of the road while downshifting. This will give you a better line into the tight right-hander and, if you take a late apex, will set you up better for the left-hander immediately after.

Just out of curiosity what mod are you using? Is it FSR 2011/2012 or some other open-wheeler mod?

Bye_Ya · Jul 15, 2012

Hi guys, thanks for the reply. I'm using the FSR 2011/12 mod. This is the China 2011 track, with the 2012 car. I have tuned for this track this entire week, and I cannot seem to setup the rear suspension to be able to get the power down any sooner. I've tried just about everything I can think of, and the only setups that allow me to do that also leave me bottoming out down the back straight. I'm getting on the throttle as soon as I can, but the car feels really susceptible to spinning out.

I also have a very difficult time dealing with the G27's deadzone, and it can cause me to put a tire off the track if I try to run really wide as I would like to. It's nearly impossible for me to drive in a straight line down the back straight as well. I have all of the steering dampening as low as I can get it, and I am also using the RealFeel plugin, which helps, but there is still a dead zone area.

Later braking definitely seems to be an issue though, so I will focus on that and see about improving. I know there's room for better entry speed into the first corner as well.

Ivar Kalamees · Jul 16, 2012

For reference

Speed into corners, speed in corners, braking. You lose everywhere.

Ho3n3r · Jul 16, 2012

Bye_Ya said:
Hi guys, thanks for the reply. I'm using the FSR 2011/12 mod. This is the China 2011 track, with the 2012 car. I have tuned for this track this entire week, and I cannot seem to setup the rear suspension to be able to get the power down any sooner. I've tried just about everything I can think of, and the only setups that allow me to do that also leave me bottoming out down the back straight. I'm getting on the throttle as soon as I can, but the car feels really susceptible to spinning out.

I also have a very difficult time dealing with the G27's deadzone, and it can cause me to put a tire off the track if I try to run really wide as I would like to. It's nearly impossible for me to drive in a straight line down the back straight as well. I have all of the steering dampening as low as I can get it, and I am also using the RealFeel plugin, which helps, but there is still a dead zone area.

Later braking definitely seems to be an issue though, so I will focus on that and see about improving. I know there's room for better entry speed into the first corner as well.

Regarding getting the power down sooner: What I do is set rear slow springs to the lowest, and front slow springs to their highest.

But it only works for me because it fits in with my driving style.

Cannot see the vid - I presume this is rFactor 1, as it's in this section? Just guessing.

Bye_Ya · Jul 16, 2012

Yeah, it is. Right now I have the rear springs as soft as they can go. Still experimenting with the dampers and 3rd spring to keep it off the ground down the back straight. I've got the braking points much improved, and I'm into the 1:38:5xxx range with a good lap now, but getting the power down earlier is the problem.

It has to be a setup thing, because for example in the video which I will post, the guy is just driving right out of corners with so much more power down, and earlier than I can possibly get. My lines and braking points are very similar to his at this point, and there's no other explanation for being 4 seconds off of his time. 4 seconds is quite a lot. Even if I was in the 1:36 range, it still wouldn't make sense to be 2 seconds off of pole pace, if 1:34:xxx is indeed capable without KERS or DRS.

Anyway, here's the video. Look at how much more quickly and aggressively he is able to put power into the car. I wonder if there are any assists at work here, TC maybe?

One thing I will say though, is that the 2011 mod is very different from the 2012 mod. Twister actually posted their setups on this sight that they used for qualifying in 2011, and in the 2011 car they are getting much more grip with a tighter suspension, so the physics are different this year.

Rhys Gardiner · Jul 16, 2012

I do believe FSR doesn't allow TC - that's a video from the official Twister Racing channel, so I'm most certain that the driver isn't using it. It's definitely something to do with the setup of the car if it's a case of not being able to get the power down...

EDIT: I'll just add as an aside that the FSR 2011 mod, at least compared to other open wheel modes I've tried, is very easy to drive for me. I'm going to give 2012 a go and see how it compares...

Ivar Kalamees · Jul 16, 2012

2011 mod is completely different. WC pole was 1:32 mid in 2011.

The lap I posted was 1:34 mid from this year's WC qualifying session by Rasmus Tali. Should give a better overview.

No aids are allowed in WC (inc. auto clutch) and there is no DRS or KERS.

Most certainly the biggest chunk of time is down to your driving. The setup might help you with the last second tops.

Ho3n3r · Jul 16, 2012

Bye_Ya said:
Yeah, it is. Right now I have the rear springs as soft as they can go. Still experimenting with the dampers and 3rd spring to keep it off the ground down the back straight. I've got the braking points much improved, and I'm into the 1:38:5xxx range with a good lap now, but getting the power down earlier is the problem.

Yes, but is the front Slow springs as hard as they can go? If not, that might be your issue here. Having the rear and front equally soft won't enable you to accelerate sooner, not matter how soft the rear is. Also, if your packers are set high at the rear, it will negate the softness of the springs, so ensure that the packers are as minimal as they can go.

Bye_Ya · Jul 16, 2012

No packers on the rear, but I have the 3rd springs set pretty stiff. I will stiffen up the front and see how it behaves. I've been experimenting with extreme setups the past few hours, just trying to understand why things I'm usually changing don't seem to make a difference. I put the rear toe at +1.00 and it gained me a second going through the first corner. I could take it with more speed, and cut in harder. With that being said, no matter if the rear springs are at 50nm with extremely soft dampers and the rear wing is at 40, I cannot take turn 7 flat out, even with a perfect turn in. I'll start moving to the front suspension next and see what I can make of it.

Thanks guys for helping me out. I am really trying to improve so this is much appreciated.

Ho3n3r · Jul 16, 2012

Bye_Ya said:
No packers on the rear, but I have the 3rd springs set pretty stiff. I will stiffen up the front and see how it behaves. I've been experimenting with extreme setups the past few hours, just trying to understand why things I'm usually changing don't seem to make a difference. I put the rear toe at +1.00 and it gained me a second going through the first corner. I could take it with more speed, and cut in harder. With that being said, no matter if the rear springs are at 50nm with extremely soft dampers and the rear wing is at 40, I cannot take turn 7 flat out, even with a perfect turn in. I'll start moving to the front suspension next and see what I can make of it.

Thanks guys for helping me out. I am really trying to improve so this is much appreciated.

Cool

It's to be noted that I am no expert at setup, but I am giving info on what works for me. I will look at the vid at home tonight to see specifics, maybe someone else might be able to give better advice

Bye_Ya · Jul 16, 2012

I've been using more track, and braking later, which has dropped over a second off my lap times, so perhaps I should post an updated video. I will see about doing that later on today.

Bye_Ya · Jul 18, 2012

Another question for Ivar Kalamees: Did the FSR series use Super Softs at China this year? I noticed in the video that you all have red tires, and not yellow. That could be an issue for me.

I'm still trying everything I can with my setup, but I cannot find a way to go through turn 7 with full throttle yet.

And thanks for that video. I missed it somehow before.

Bye_Ya · Jul 18, 2012

Hey guys, if you'd care to offer any more advice about my slow times at Shanghai, I would greatly appreciate it. I've been practicing quite a lot since the last video, probably over 150 laps at China in the past few days, mostly trying to get rFactor's tuning system down, but I feel like I've hit a wall here because I have watched a whole lot of 1:34:xxx videos and I just can't see what I'm doing so wrong as to still be 3.5 seconds off of that pace.

Sure, their laps are a bit cleaner, but 3.5 seconds off of the pace is just hard for me to believe. If you all think my braking points are still too early, take a look at the setup in the beginning of the video, because I cannot possibly brake later without locking up the brakes, and I've been trying to brake through the corners carrying more speed, whereas before I was braking before the corners. I realize I didn't get the most out of the last two corners, but certainly not 3.5 seconds off.

Appreciate any help. The lap starts at 1:26 in the video.