VR for primarily AMS2, PC2, ACC - with RX 580 - suggestions?

[stenovitz]

Hi there

Just with stray thoughts on jumping on the VR bandwagon.
Any VR suggestions for my hardware-sim combo?
(Yes, RTFM, but now I put my head in the wasp nest )

Googled a bit on my GPU, on some forums it is doomed for VR while others feedback that it is well enough for especially AMS2, which is OK for me.

Sims:
Without knowing anything about this world, however knowing the weak link in my chain will probably be my GPU, my primary plan is just to make it work fairly well with modern sims like

• In first row: AMS2 and PC2, i.e. Madness Engine, of which I've read positive response with my GPU
• Second row: AC (with CSP, SOL, etc), rF2, Dirt Rally 2.0, R3E, BeamNG, ACC (and AC2 if it's not just rumours) and maybe iRacing (if I'll have the time to rejoin).
• And then in 3rd row: my tons of classic sims (if possible at all).

My VR considerations:

• Oculus: is it correct understood if the PC GPU is the challenge I should choose a Quest 2 over a Rift S?
• HP Reverb G2: Seems powerfull, but is the extra price (~ $875 / €775) worth it, i.e. will it compensate in same way as a Quest 2 (to my understanding, but I might be wrong), but able to deliver a more powerfull performance?
• Valve Index: what are the drawbacks? I read something about timeconsuming/troublesome fine tuning, especially if you switch between sims (of which I do A LOT)
• HTC Vipe Pro 2: is just out of my scope, economically speaking, unless an irresistible offer appears.

Basically:
Do I have to decide on which sim should be my primary - and then decide VR from here?
If I choose the cheaper VR, I can live with if it can just be used for AMS2 and nothing else. It's fine with me, if it's just a reliable solution with my PC setup.
However, if the suggestion is just a bit more expensive, my demands grow for number of sims it can run troublefree on.

Relevant PC specs:

• MB: Gigabyte X570 Aorus Ultra v. 1.0
• CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600X (std. clockings, but no real heat problems overclocking with powerfull Noctua cooler)
• GFX: Sapphire Radeon RX 580 Nitro+ 8 Gb GDDR5 RAM (no real GPU overclock heating issues, just a bit speaking VRAM overclock).
• RAM: 32 (2 x 16) Gb Kingston HyperX Fury DDR4 (PC3200, no plans to overclock, whatsoever)
• SSD: (3x) 2TB PCI 4.0 x4 M.2 NVME WD Black SN850

 

[GeekyDeaks]

Googled a bit on my GPU, on some forums it is doomed for VR while others feedback that it is well enough for especially AMS2, which is OK for me.

In my (fairly limited) experience, the things people seem to neglect to mention when talking about their VR performance are the number of pixels in the headset and how fast they are pushing them. If you go for the Rift S, it has the lowest pixel density (~3.5M pixels) of the above and runs at 80Hz (~300M pixels/s) so it's probably going to be 'acceptable' on your current GPU without any crazy super sampling, but if you try and run the G2 (~9M pixels) or probably even the Quest 2 (~7M pixels), I suspect you will need to do no super sampling and bring the refresh down from 90Hz (~840M pixels/s) to 60Hz (~560M pixels/s) which can then bring it's own set of problems depending on your perception (flickering display, noticeable jerkiness, shimmering etc...)

From a sim perspective, I think I have bought and tried most of them developed in the last decade, and on my system at least (i5 9500f / 2070S / G1), iRacing gives the most rock solid 90Hz performance at low/medium detail, then AC, then AMS2/PC2... after that it's a bit more murky as it seems to depend highly on track/car combo. Just to also note, that your CPU and memory specs are above mine.

One other thing, you didn't mention if you had tried any headsets. If you have the chance to try before you buy, I'd highly recommend it as the difference in the visual quality can be huge. Also, whilst I can comfortably use my headset for hours, very few of my friends can tolerate it for more than a few minutes, so if you haven't already, try and use one for an extended time to see if this is something you will need to work on.

 

[stenovitz]

<snip> when talking about their VR performance are the number of pixels in the headset < the Rift S, it has the lowest pixel density (~3.5M pixels) of the above and runs at 80Hz so it's probably going to be 'acceptable' on your current GPU without any crazy super sampling, but if you try and run the G2 (~9M pixels) or probably even the Quest 2 (~7M pixels), I suspect you will need to bring the refresh down from 90Hz to 60Hz which can then bring it's own set of problems depending on your perception (flickering display, noticeable jerkiness etc...)

Oh, thanks for the response!

My thought was quite on the oppisite, due to my thoughts that the Quest 2 was also scalable in resultion, but that is not the case? It is locked to resolution 1832x1920, correct understood?
I think I can live fine with ~3.5M pixels, but as I read, the Rift S is locked to 80Hz, right? In competition I can live with 65-75Hz, a pitty the Rift S is not scalable on refresh rate, when low on GPU as me.
And if the G2 is locked to 9M it's easy for me to rule out (would require a GFX-upgrade at more the prize itself, so senseless within my budget).

One other thing, you didn't mention if you had tried any headsets. If you have the chance to try before you buy, I'd highly recommend it as the difference in the visual quality can be huge. Also, whilst I can comfortably use my headset for hours, very few of my friends can tolerate it for more than a few minutes, so if you haven't already, try and use one for an extended time to see if this is something you will need to work on.

Yes I've tried headsets on occations before - just not simracing but a bit wilder things (combination with an escape room group event more extreme VR plays in rollercoaster, skiing downhill, and arcade trackmania-like controlled by the whole of your own body. Everybody else had to stop, but I could just continue (think I was in VR mode all-in-all about 40-50 mins without getting dizzy). Aaand my assuption is that VR simracing is a bit less extreme, since I'll be fixed to my sim chair, and besides my eyes are more used to real simracing than a rollercoaster trackmania while balancing my entire body

I think you already brought me quite close to a decision - lots of thanks!

 

[GeekyDeaks]

My thought was quite on the oppisite, due to my thoughts that the Quest 2 was also scalable in resultion, but that is not the case? It is locked to resolution 1832x1920, correct understood?

Well, you can always 'under sample' any headset (i.e. run it at a lower resolution), but I have not found this to be a great experience as I find it looks highly pixelated. The real limiting factor of fine tweaking is, as you noted, usually the refresh rate as that tends to be fixed to only a few different options. There is also re-projection to consider though, which basically tries to guess each other frame rather than render it in full. This essentially means your GPU is rendering at half the rate of the headset. Personally I have found this be quite acceptable in AMS2, but I notice it quite badly in other sims I have tried.

 

[Deleted member 1066209]

Apparently HP recommends running the Reverb G2 at half-resolution with the RX 580. I've successfully run my G2 at 50% Steam SuperSampling with minimal visual clarity loss in Assetto Corsa. Now that AMD FSR is widely implemented, I think you will be able to unlock a lot of hidden frames. The G2 offers a lot of headroom, so when you desire a bit more performance, you can just upgrade your GPU - as opposed to both the headset and the GPU.

Although, I understand that the simracing upgrades are never completed, so you might find yourself upgrading both in the future anyway. For what it's worth, I'm very content with my G2 and do not see myself upgrading from it anytime soon.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

I've successfully run my G2 at 50% Steam SuperSampling with minimal visual clarity loss in Assetto Corsa

Just out of curiosity, but what does steam VR report as the render size at 50% with the G2? I kinda gave up looking at the % as it seemed to vary between headsets as to what it actually did to the render size so it was a bit difficult to use it to compare. For example, my G1 at 100% was way less than my mates G2 at 100%, like almost half if memory serves

 

[Deleted member 1066209]

SteamVR says the Reverb G2 @ 50% SuperSampling results in 2232x2184

 

[GeekyDeaks]

SteamVR says the Reverb G2 @ 50% SuperSampling results in 2232x2184

Cheers for taking the time to check that! So.... that's actually about what I am currently running my G1 at, and it's not far off the native resolution of the headset. Unfortunately, for me that pushes my 2070S pretty hard at 90fps, so I think the OP might need to sub-sample further on the RX 580 which I have tried and it doesn't look pretty to me, but I guess might still be better than a blurry Rift S? I do agree that spending money on a Rift S doesn't seem like a good idea when you can get a new Quest 2 for not a lot more (at least where I live) and also use it standalone.

 

[stenovitz]

And cheers for both of your contributions!

 

[GeekyDeaks]

I had a bit of a play this morning @stenovitz . In AC, with fairly low detail, shadows and reflection off, and running .77 AMD FSR my GPU frame time for 90fps at close to native rez on my G1 was about 6-7ms (so that's about 65% GPU time). I think the Quest 2 running at 72fps might be within reach of your RX 580 if the GPU comparison sites are accurate and you are happy with running lower visuals in the game (personally I am fine with it) - for me shadows are the frame killer in AC and AMS2, and I'm happy to keep them off for less optimised combos.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

I just realised you wanted this for ACC and not AC. Personally, I cannot get anywhere close to an acceptable experience with my setup on ACC, even after they released the DLSS update, so be prepared for disappointment if that is a must. Definitely try out AC though, it's on sale regularly and whilst it takes a bit of tweaking to get the best out of it, it's still an absolutely stellar game for the money

 

[stenovitz]

Well, if AC does better than ACC it's just perfectly alright with me, in fact I'm more than happy with your test and info, @GeekyDeaks ! Before AMS2's improvements since summer 2021, AC was my primary sim, right since AC's first free demo in 2013 and onwards the official version adding all it's official DLC' + hundreds of car- and track mods + CM+SOL+CSP+NaturalGraphicsFilter, etc, etc.

To have VR experiences in all the open world mods created lately and rediscover my huge mod database in VR and reading it should be doable with a budget GFX and mid range VR, then I cannot ask for more, really

I just thought this was out of scope and didn't expect ACC to be more demanding here.

Again thanks for all the interesting info and test.
I started with vague stray thoughts just a couple of days ago, and maybe an investment sometime in 2022. But now I'm hooked!

Edit: I'm the guy having invested far more in sim software and payable mods than sim hardware (just got a real rig a year ago, though being a simracer for decades), so think I have almost all sims on the market (being newest, older and ancient ones), but if just a couple are able to run in VR with my present PC hardware in a satisfying way, I'm happy.

 

[stenovitz]

Noob Question related to the Quest 2: Any difference between the 128Gb base version compared to the 256Gb version when mainly used for PC sims?

 

[GeekyDeaks]

That's just for the games/apps stored directly on the Quest 2, so if you are mainly using it for PC games, then you may not require the larger storage

 

[stenovitz]

Nice, thanks!
So even an older 64Gb base version will have no effect whatsoever on PC sim performance, I guess?

 

[GeekyDeaks]

If you don't intend to use it much standalone, then you will be fine. I'm not sure if the RAM has any impact though, so just check that it's still 6GB

 

[Rebel_488]

Massive improvement for me was opting into steam vr beta and then opening wmr from inside steam. I can now run acc at 80 steam vr resolution. 2070 super, G2.

 

[stenovitz]

So unboxed my Quest 2 this morning. In general very satisfied in combo with my Sapphire Radeon RX 580 Nitro+, experimenting with higher settings in VR dedicated sims as AMS2 and PC2.

And also AC in general - BUT not working activating Post-Processing effects!
If I activate PP via either standard UI or via CM, my PC freezes with black screen and Win10 deactivates my GFX driver). So no SOL

Am I doing something wrong here or is it due to my RX 580 shortcomings?

Quest 2 without PP activated: Runs fine in high res and 120Hz.
With PP activated: tried very low resolution, update frequency at lowest option (72Hz).
Using USB-C to USB3.2 cable with test speeds of 2.9Gbps (should be OK and works stable in general.

My AC parameters with RX 580 using Quest 2 WITHOUT PP delivers good performance:

Rendering Mode: OpenVR - running absolutely fine deactivating PP, even with
1440p res. (50 up to 120Hz with Fix resolution activated)
Framerate = up to 60 (set lower to 30 when huge mixed field of car mods)
4xMSAA
16xAnisotropic filtering
World Details = Maximum ,
Shadows res. = 512x512
Smoke = Low
Reflection Res = 512x512 with max distance (once per frame)
Oxulus Pixels pr. frame = 1.5

With PP activated and PC crash / Win10 GFX-driver deactivated during AC race loading screen:
Deactivated almost everything, lowest res./frequency, lowest Quality, shadows + Smoke + Reflections + Mirrors= OFF, Oculus Pixels.
Just using default filter with suggested Motion blur = OFF, minimum quality, Glare OFF, Depth of field = Low, I experience just PC crash due to GFX driver deactivation.

Any way to get around this?
Otherwise I'll have to race the Quest 2 with no PP.

 

[Terry Rock]

AMS2 especially, RF2, RRE and AC all run quite well with the Reverb G2 at half resolution on the 6 GB GTX-1060.
The RX580....with a bigger VRAM buffer....should still be good for most sims at similar resolutions and frequencies.
I did test ACC but at 24 FPS in WMR...it is a no-go.
It does runs perfectly well on a single monitor, with many settings at 'epic'.
I have to set anything associated with shadows or track textures there to fully enjoy the look of this title...despite it's impact of framerates.
I typically use the monitor only to run ACC now.
That'll be the case until I can pickup a new GPU...(still deciding which one to get once prices come to some semblance of normalcy).
I am still leaning toward Intel's ARC series pending test results versus price.

 

[Novopaine]

So unboxed my Quest 2 this morning. In general very satisfied in combo with my Sapphire Radeon RX 580 Nitro+, experimenting with higher settings in VR dedicated sims as AMS2 and PC2.

And also AC in general - BUT not working activating Post-Processing effects!
If I activate PP via either standard UI or via CM, my PC freezes with black screen and Win10 deactivates my GFX driver). So no SOL

Am I doing something wrong here or is it due to my RX 580 shortcomings?

That's unfortunate that you're having issues. I don't have quite the same setup as you, so I can't do any apples to apples comparison. I have an old Rift CV1 and I have used it with an RX570(8GB) a couple of years ago, but not for Sim Racing. I'm running a 5700XT at the moment.

One thing you try changing is the Render Mode under the Display settings in AC. For my Rift CV1 I can choose either "Oculus Rift" or "OpenVR early support". If you have both options available, maybe give the alternate a try.

A few other things:
1) What power supply do you have? Brand/model/wattage.
2) Do you have any experience with motherboard BIOS updates? I like to keep mine as current as possible.... it's risky though, but can solve some stability issues.
3) Are you running the recommended WHQL driver or the latest optional driver for the RX580? I find the optional drivers hit and miss.
4) Are you familiar with memtest86? If yes, I would run a test to verify you don't have a flakey memory stick.