Volkswagen to Try and Get the Nürburgring Record for an Electric Vehicle with the I.D. R

rg-volkswagen-id-pikes-peak-on-track-xxl-2560x9999.jpg


High Tension in the Eifel forests.


Last summer we wrote about the record-breaking lap set by Romain Dumas in the Volkswagen I.D. R at Pikes Peak. The electric prototype climbed over 4,720 feet (1,440 mt) in 7'57''148, in a jaw-dropping performance that literally smashed the competition. If you haven’t, go watch the on-board video we featured in our dedicated article.

Now, Wolfsburg decided to sharpen its teeth on German soil, precisely at the legendary Green Hell - the Nordschleife. The layout used will be 22,835 km long (14,19 mi), and for the I.D. R to mark a new record it must be lapped in less than 6’45’’90, which is the time set by the NIO EP9 in 2017. For this to be done, the VW will need to go through a few modifications needed to adapt the prototype to this very different challenge, compared to its previous feat at Pikes Peak.

François-Xavier Demaison, Technical Director at Volkswagen Motorsport, commented:

Above all, we will modify the aerodynamics of the ID. R, in order to cope with the conditions on the Nordschleife, which differ greatly from those on Pikes Peak"

Since the I.D. R already managed to race full throttle for almost 8 minutes at very high altitudes, it is almost certain it will have no problem tackling this challenge too. It is to be seen however, how fast it will manage to go. Reason why we say that is because expectations are high not only for the competition set by the NIO, but also from their sister company with the Porsche 919 EVO. Will the I.D. R be able to beat the Stuttgart prototype too?

Sven Smeet, Volkswagen Motorsport Director, said:

"After the record on Pikes Peak, the fastest time for electric cars on the Nürburgring-Nordschleife is the next big challenge for the ID. R. A lap record on the Nordschleife is a great accolade for any car, whether a racecar or a production car".

The record attempt will be held this summer, according to plans, with Romain Dumas again at the wheel. What awaits him is no small task either, and he surely feels the pressure already. In his own words:

"The thought of driving the ID. R on the Nordschleife is already enough to give me goose bumps. I know the track very well, but the ID. R will be a completely different challenge, with its extreme acceleration and huge cornering speeds. I can hardly wait for the first tests. Breaking the existing electric record will certainly not be a stroll in the park"


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What are your predictions? Will the I.D. R be again successful? Let us know in the comments below!
 
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Petrolhead and sim enthusiast, passionate since the cradle about cars, motorsports and simracing. I read a lot, and I love to share what I learned with others!

Cheesenium

500RPM
Jul 15, 2011
523
715
Sounds interesting. It seemed like interesting electric cars are finally coming.

Not those low LoD looking road cars that is butt ugly.
 

BrunoB

Too much Goebbels
Oct 10, 2011
1,716
907
I think its a bit strange to destinguish between petrol and electric cars records when at the same time electric cars tries to be taken serious in the racing world.
It would be the same situation if there was arranged one F1 championship for male drivers and another championship for female drivers.
Nobody would take the latter one serious;)
Hehe and the best of todays female drivers would of course feel patonized :thumbsup:

I have just checked the absolute records for Nordschleife and it looks like no electric car are anywhere near the Porsche 911 record:ninja:

1. Modified Porsche 911 GT2 RS (991) Lars Kern 6:40.33
11. Nio EP9 unknown driver 7:05.12
https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife

EDIT: Im sorry I cant find the 6’45’’90 refered to in the article for the NIO EP9 in 2017.:sleep:
 

larre90

100RPM
Jul 26, 2016
227
97
30
Well, the NIO is a streetcar, the ID R a purposed build race-/timeattack-car.

Can the two of them even be compared to each other?

Considering it's equal, then all records despite the one with the 919 EVO would be absolutelly meaningless...
 

Niels_at_home

Reiza Studios
Jan 2, 2011
276
481
It paints the wrong picture in my opinion.

Yes you can go real fast in an electric car and there are lots of benefits. But what is the drawback?
You can only run for 8 minutes. Then wait a few hours to fully charge the battery before you can go out again.

Here is some 'back of a napkin' calculations:
  • The VW aparantly has about 670hp, which is around 500kW. To run full power for 7 minutes you need a 58kW/hour battery.
  • The new Formula E car, love them or hate them, are pretty high tech. Their 54kWh battery weighs 250kg
  • Sure there is some regen and you're not full power all the time so lets say that:
  • It takes 200 kg of battery weight to drive 7 minutes
  • a race engine gobbling fuel at 2 miles per gallon would only need 20kg of fuel for a lap of the Ring
  • But it burns it! so the average weight it carries is only 10kg!
This is the problem with electric cars and why Formula E has to drive slowly on small Mickey Mouse tracks.
Yes the tech is amazing and I wouldn't mind racing electric cars at all.

But the 200kg battery versus 10kg petrol hurdle is just too big. Sure battery tech gets better but it is very unlikely they can make such huge improvements. Fire can be a risky thing with batteries now, and you'd be sitting on a serious bomb if their energy storage increases by a factor of 10..

Again, I do like electric. In Formula Student, Pikes Peak or a single hotlap, the clever torque vectoring etc can create cars the closest we got to time travel machines.. But the drawbacks are just too severe for any prolonged racing and they won't be fixed 'soon' or at all..
 

JaimeDK

50RPM
Jan 17, 2018
73
55
35
Fire can be a risky thing with batteries
Yep, everybody knows that petrol is what fireman uses to extinguish a fire, they do that, don't let them cheat you telling is water... :roflmao:
The risk of a fire is something we have in all type of vehicles.
I haven't calculated the weights of a petrol engine vs electric, and also EV don't need heavy gearboxes, exhaust system, fuel pump, etc... but still is a alive tech just need more time to get more developed, not like obsolete ICE
 

BrunoB

Too much Goebbels
Oct 10, 2011
1,716
907
We are talking about absolute lap records here - right?
As I understand the video posted above then the NIO breaks the absolute laprecord with a 4:34.12.:thumbsup:
So the fastest lap on Nordschleife is at the moment this time?:x3:

Just like my analogy above that there should (ofcourse) only be one(1) F1 championship then I hold there should also only be one(1) ruling ABSOLUTE lap record on Nordschleife.

Hehe and it dont matter if the car is a special Trabant or a VW Elly MkII:inlove:
 
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Durge Driven

2000RPM
Jun 17, 2017
2,465
1,474
What is fair in any comparison when electric is in it's infancy while combustion engines have had a century to reach their maximum potential
 
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The-IC

100RPM
Premium
Dec 5, 2016
108
397
Well, the NIO is a streetcar, the ID R a purposed build race-/timeattack-car
Except that every timed lap the NIO has done has been on full racing slicks...all the other production cars could do that and wipe several seconds off their 'ring laptimes aswell *shrug*

In any case I'm predicting the IDR is going to steamroll its time
 

Snailer

50RPM
Aug 26, 2017
57
29
24
It paints the wrong picture in my opinion.

Yes you can go real fast in an electric car and there are lots of benefits. But what is the drawback?
You can only run for 8 minutes. Then wait a few hours to fully charge the battery before you can go out again.

Here is some 'back of a napkin' calculations:
  • The VW aparantly has about 670hp, which is around 500kW. To run full power for 7 minutes you need a 58kW/hour battery.
  • The new Formula E car, love them or hate them, are pretty high tech. Their 54kWh battery weighs 250kg
  • Sure there is some regen and you're not full power all the time so lets say that:
  • It takes 200 kg of battery weight to drive 7 minutes
  • a race engine gobbling fuel at 2 miles per gallon would only need 20kg of fuel for a lap of the Ring
  • But it burns it! so the average weight it carries is only 10kg!
This is the problem with electric cars and why Formula E has to drive slowly on small Mickey Mouse tracks.
Yes the tech is amazing and I wouldn't mind racing electric cars at all.

But the 200kg battery versus 10kg petrol hurdle is just too big. Sure battery tech gets better but it is very unlikely they can make such huge improvements. Fire can be a risky thing with batteries now, and you'd be sitting on a serious bomb if their energy storage increases by a factor of 10..

Again, I do like electric. In Formula Student, Pikes Peak or a single hotlap, the clever torque vectoring etc can create cars the closest we got to time travel machines.. But the drawbacks are just too severe for any prolonged racing and they won't be fixed 'soon' or at all..
You completely forgot to factor in the weight of the IC engine. Formula E motors weigh somewhere around 20 to 30kg, and don't need gearboxes, fuel pumps, exhausts, and many other gizmos. An IC engine will easily go over the 100kg mark not accounting for supporting hardware. Yes, the EV will be a little heavier, but it's not 200kg to 10kg.
 

Niels_at_home

Reiza Studios
Jan 2, 2011
276
481
The 200 to 10 is the added weight per Nurburgring lap. If you want to race for 45 minutes or so, i.e. 7 laps, that would be 1400kg vs 70kg.

Sure there are differences in engine weight, gearbox etc, but once you actually want to race for a while, these pale in comparison to the battery weight.

Sure I'm not exactly correct, but that gap is so large that it points to the issue quite well. Reasonable physics calculations on the back of a napkin are enough to show the huge gap battery racing has to petrol racing. For a 8 minute hillclimb or a 7 minute lap its not bad, and the advantages of electric really shine. But if you want to drive a powerful car for an actual amount of racing time, it stops making sense.

That is what I want to point out here. This is not something you can brush away hoping that technology will fix it soon. It is a real issue, order of magnitude stuff. And battery technology isn't so new or unknown that I think you can expect this gap to be covered at all, let alone in the foreseeable future.
 

protonv5

500RPM
Jan 6, 2017
556
206
Considering all things though, internal combustion engines are more efficient. Electric will never be the long term go to platform. Even the major manufacturers know this. Electric is a gimmick that will only last a few years. They have said this and are planning on alternative fuels such as hydrogen for the long term. What powerplant burns hydrogen? The internal combustion engine.
 

JaimeDK

50RPM
Jan 17, 2018
73
55
35
The 200 to 10 is the added weight per Nurburgring lap. If you want to race for 45 minutes or so, i.e. 7 laps, that would be 1400kg vs 70kg.

Sure there are differences in engine weight, gearbox etc, but once you actually want to race for a while, these pale in comparison to the battery weight.

Sure I'm not exactly correct, but that gap is so large that it points to the issue quite well. Reasonable physics calculations on the back of a napkin are enough to show the huge gap battery racing has to petrol racing. For a 8 minute hillclimb or a 7 minute lap its not bad, and the advantages of electric really shine. But if you want to drive a powerful car for an actual amount of racing time, it stops making sense.

That is what I want to point out here. This is not something you can brush away hoping that technology will fix it soon. It is a real issue, order of magnitude stuff. And battery technology isn't so new or unknown that I think you can expect this gap to be covered at all, let alone in the foreseeable future.
Don't worries mate, in the future the race cars will use a 15kg battery pack because the track itself will provide energy to the battery constantly or just in certain straights, is something that can be done "easy" and is not a 2040 tech is here and now. that will solve all your issues with battery weights. :thumbsup:
 

JaimeDK

50RPM
Jan 17, 2018
73
55
35
Considering all things though, internal combustion engines are more efficient. Electric will never be the long term go to platform. Even the major manufacturers know this. Electric is a gimmick that will only last a few years. They have said this and are planning on alternative fuels such as hydrogen for the long term. What powerplant burns hydrogen? The internal combustion engine.
Best ICE in efficiency about 40%, 20% is the average.
Electric motors are 75%