Vettel / Hamilton War of Words Post Baku Contact Continues

[samcar304]

Yeah, I think there is a huge difference between a collision that occurs through hard, close racing, and a collision that is caused through anger as a (misguided) retaliation. The fact that Vettel crashed into Hamilton whilst they were not racing makes it even more unacceptable, in my opinion.

This shouldn't be about how hard he hit him, or how fast they were travelling, but the reason that he chose to hit him. Oh, and the fact that he seems to have no recollection of the collision even happening

I agree, what Vettel done was completely out of order, I've said it before in other threads that I have commented in, the fact he went out of his to pull alongside renders the incident as completely his fault. Again having no acknowledgement of the incident during the media interviews was not right. If he does not come out and before/at Austria then it will taint his reputation even more than this current aftermath. Whilst the two incident are different both show negligence in some way or another, Sainz complete lack of awareness/competence and Vettel's lack of respect/restraint.

Nice to have a discussion with a difference of opinions where no one accuses you of things

 

[gamer19]

Hey sam you're some really sensitive guy aren't you.
You play Sims I see. Lovely, gentle, PEGI 3 game that is, yes...
So, which part of my post hurt your feelings the most if I may ask ?
"That's a bit off topic here isn't it."
or
"Did you bother to even read it ?"
Both strong, parental guidance 22+ language, I agree.
Yet, look at you,

I rarely call people out because I'm not that type of person, but pre judging me for the second time this week after the Isle of man TT thread is not on. It's more ignorance on your part that you would hastily assume such things. Yes I read the article. Whilst reading the article it reminded me of the move Sainz made on Grosjean, and how dangerous it was. Regarding whether or not it is relevant; The thread is discussing the severity of Vettel's penalty. I said in my previous post that I thought Sainz move on Grosjean was worse than what Vettel had done. Sainz got a grid penalty for "carelessness and potentially dangerous driving" Sainz incident was at racing speed, he made two collisions with Grosjean. After the first contact he knew someone was there and then still proceeded to move over again. He ended up taking out Massa in quite a heavy shunt. It was the type of move that could I have resulted in a SPA 2012 style crash. For me that is much worse than what Vettel has done. But it's more about Vettel's conduct during the incident that has caused the investigation.

you STILL almost exclusive talk about that old Canada incident ? Really mate ...why ?!? Can't we, please, switch back to OP ?

edit:
Didn't vote since english is not my native and maybe one can give me some explanation, don't quite get it... Do I feel like his punishment was appropriate, like should he be punished or not at all(?) but what if I feel like he should get bigger punishment ? I should still vote as NO ?
But then when someone look at the results he would feel like my vote is for "he shouldn't be punished, at all". Really messy poll isn't it ? Or I don't get it or... it is lost in translation, in a way.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

What's emabarrising is the complete bias and delusion of people's comments.

Vettel didn't even get penalised for the initial impact, that was just considered a racing incident where he misjudged Hamiltons speed and would have been left as that.

You watch any experienced F1 driver they do exactly the same thing as Hamilton on restarts, those 'dirty tricks' as some of you like to call them is basic race craft. Hamilton did him on the previous restart and Perez pounced, Vettel tried to be clever thinking Hamilton would do the exact same thing, he didn't and got caught out.

The issue is as per usual for Vettel the red mist descended and he took matters into his own hands. Let's not forget Istanbul where he crashed into Webber and took them both out and tried to blame it on Webber. Abu Dhabi when he crashed into an off-track foam sign under the safety car because he needed to place higher to win the championship let the pressure get to him and tried to blame it on the driver in front.

He has always been a whinny bitch as have all the best drivers over the years, remember these guys come into the sport in their early 20s not knowing anything other than racing and still growing up. It should be no surprise that all the greats have gone too far at some point when you consider that, I used to hate Alonso in his early years, he complained about everything and acted like an arrogant little prick. Look at him now though so much more level headed and calm which is what bothers me about Vettel, he should know better by now but he still just has no control over his emotions and comes off looking like a wanker.

I think he is fully aware he purposely crashed into Hamilton the 2nd time but he will have been briefed to deny anything unless they prove he did, no point guaranteeing himself more disciplinary action by admitting it was more than just an accident. I'm sure behind closed doors he will apologise to Hamilton for losing his cool without the media spin or fear of punishment.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

Regardless of any past offences, Vettel really has no defence for the second collision (personally, I would have put the first collision down as a 'doh!' moment, whoever had crashed into whoever).

If he crashed into Hamilton because he was angry and wanted to gesticulate with his hands (supposedly pulling on the steering wheel by accident ), then he lost control of his car and caused a crash.

If he crashed into Hamilton because he was angry and wanted to hit him with his car or damage his car, then he lost control of his mind and caused a crash.

Either way, Vettel lost control on Sunday.

 

[gamer19]

You mean sundays, right ?

 

[samcar304]

Hey sam you're some really sensitive guy aren't you.
You play Sims I see. Lovely, gentle, PEGI 3 game that is, yes...
So, which part of my post hurt your feelings the most if I may ask ?
"That's a bit off topic here isn't it."
or
"Did you bother to even read it ?"
Both strong, parental guidance 22+ language, I agree.
Yet, look at you,

you STILL almost exclusive talk about that old Canada incident ? Really mate ...why ?!? Can't we, please, switch back to OP ?

First off, I brought the Canada incident into the the discussion because it is an example of "dangerous driving" that has happened recently (Less than a month ago). This thread has been talking about Dangerous Driving. So by bringing another example of dangerous driving to reference and compare Is related to the topic that is being discussed in this thread. (If it is not, please a moderator let me know...) I had posted my opinion on the matter by referencing the Canada incident and the Baku incident, I had a discussion with @Fat-Alfie where he opposed my view. I took on board his view point and agree with him. I opened my mind to allow someone else's opinion change mine. (Something which I think 99% of this website can do).

Now that my gentle and offended hands have written this post, Please elaborate on how you assume (Yet again) I play the Sims...

 

[hitm4k3r]

What's emabarrising is the complete bias and delusion of people's comments.

Vettel didn't even get penalised for the initial impact, that was just considered a racing incident where he misjudged Hamiltons speed and would have been left as that.

You watch any experienced F1 driver they do exactly the same thing as Hamilton on restarts, those 'dirty tricks' as some of you like to call them is basic race craft. Hamilton did him on the previous restart and Perez pounced, Vettel tried to be clever thinking Hamilton would do the exact same thing, he didn't and got caught out.

I wouldn't call people biased when they demand fair treatment for all drivers and I think it is more delusional to call behaviour that is explicitely not permitted by the rulebook 'basic race craft'. What both drivers did, was wrong and as a spectator watching this sport and even paying money for it I expext a fair competition wich isn't the case in F1 and a big problem if you ask me. A safety car deployment is there to guarantee safety and nothing else. If people think it is right to show race craft in such a sitation and play games with other drivers, so be it. Everyone who has a bit of understanding of this sport and the attitude of Lewis Hamilton or other drivers who played their dirty games (Vettel, Senna, Schumacher, Prost, Lauda etc.) will know that Hamilton indeed tried to confuse the people behing him and even Toto Wolff used the word "break testing". Doesn't change the fact that the rubber band effect of accerlating and slowing lead to dangerous situations more than once during that race and it's infact more important right now to get this solved instead of looking for people to penalize them. Drivers trying to gain an advantage in such situations is basicly the complete opposite of what is intended and if you can't comprehend that safety means safety and not racing, then you should clearly think about of what is embarassing and what not. I can't stand both, Vettel and Hamilton for the very fact that they are both whiny and bad losers. Hamilton making bad remarks about Nico Rosberg at every occasion just shows that something is quite not right with that guy and I simply don't understand why the FIA and F1 in general tries to give him a special treatment. What I expect though is that the FIA finaly gets their sh*t together and focuses on what really is important.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

I wouldn't call people biased when they demand fair treatment for all drivers and I think it is more delusional to call behaviour that is explicitely not permitted by the rulebook 'basic race craft'. What both drivers did, was wrong and as a spectator watching this sport and even paying money for it I expext a fair competition wich isn't the case in F1 and a big problem if you ask me. A safety car deployment is there to guarantee safety and nothing else. If people think it is right to show race craft in such a sitation and play games with other drivers, so be it. Everyone who has a bit of understanding of this sport and the attitude of Lewis Hamilton or other drivers who played their dirty games (Vettel, Senna, Schumacher, Prost, Lauda etc.) will know that Hamilton indeed tried to confuse the people behing him and even Toto Wolff used the word "break testing". Doesn't change the fact that the rubber band effect of accerlating and slowing lead to dangerous situations more than once during that race and it's infact more important right now to get this solved instead of looking for people to penalize them. Drivers trying to gain an advantage in such situations is basicly the complete opposite of what is intended and if you can't comprehend that safety means safety and not racing, then you should clearly think about of what is embarassing and what not. I can't stand both, Vettel and Hamilton for the very fact that they are both whiny and bad losers. Hamilton making bad remarks about Nico Rosberg at every occasion just shows that something is quite not right with that guy and I simply don't understand why the FIA and F1 in general tries to give him a special treatment. What I expect though is that the FIA finaly gets their sh*t together and focuses on what really is important.

I'm talking about people blaming it all on Hamilton as if Vettel did nothing wrong. Also all the data says Hamilton did not do anything of the sort, anyone saying otherwise is clearly biased, you can't refute facts and data. When have decisions ever been fair anyway, that's never been the case in F1.

As to your point about safety, it's not for the safety of the drivers, it's for the safety of marshalls on the track. if they wanted to make it safer and fairer they could easily impose a rule that there is no overtaking allowed for one lap. Otherwise if they didn't use such tactics the driver in 2nd would always have the advantage due to proximity and slipstream which is hardly fair. It will never change because some of the best action is after a safety car period and people love it as it introduces unpredictability you wouldn't normally get.

All the best drivers are always pushing the boundaries to get any edge they can, that's what makes them great, whether it be track limits, aggressive driving etc. Surely that's what makes it exciting not having it neutered constantly with everyone driving around being polite.

 

[HypoToad]

Vettel is such a crybaby. He kept doing all kinds of bullshit to Mark Webber back in the day too. Constantly blaming others without looking in the mirror.

.. but he is undoubtedly a very talented driver.. he's just so immature when it comes to admitting being at fault.

Agree 100%, just listen to him on the pit radio, always complaining about other drivers, it's never his fault.

I do think the penalty was enough though as it cost him the race, and it was unlucky for Hamilton and lucky for Vettel that Hamilton had to pit because of that padding issue.

 

[ronniej]

give us a break with your "old days"
prost had hit senna , senna crashed into prost at suzuka volontary

Err, you mean when the race decided the actual championship? The fact that they were teamates? Full out racing into a corner?.... aaand this is over a rear ender on a flag.

just enjoy the show man.

I don't think so....Why, are they bringing in transgenders into F1 now?

you guys are schyzophrenic sometimes.

You don't know the half of it...LSD flashbacks, Metamucil dependencies.....Google that.

 

[Flammenjc]

Ok, because people want to use Senna - Prost as an example, they always pull Suzuka 1990, well I will say some things to this.

Was it right in a sporting sense? No.
Was it right in a moral sense? No
Was it right in a justice sense? Absolutely

That's the difference, Senna also had said he would do it, so he at the very least, claimed responsibility for his actions. Prost had Senna politically disqualified from the previous championship finale so he "did" Prost for the 1990 title, it's swings and roundabouts, the contact Prost made with Senna at teh chicane was intentional anyway, so it literally is, an EYE for an EYE.

That doesn't make it right, but since they only ever screwed with each other, I don't really see how that's comparable to ramming a guy under a safety car...

 

[MoerasGrizzly]

Now that my gentle and offended hands have written this post, Please elaborate on how you assume (Yet again) I play the Sims...

Everybody plays the Sims right? It's a rad game.

 

[samcar304]

Everybody plays the Sims right? It's a rad game.

Well I have nothing against it, A lot of people including me played it whilst growing up. It was just part of the games we had when we were younger. I'd just like to know why does he assume things and then when confronted with facts or challenges he hides and does not reply...

 

[gamer19]

I'm sorry. Didn't realize you really want an explanation, as you actually didn't understand my analogy.
It was about that avatar of yours, of course. It looks just like one of the Sims characters you can make in game. If it's not from Sims then it must be some game for even younger boys and girls...
Not that it all matters now though.

 

[samcar304]

I'm sorry. Didn't realize you really want an explanation, as you actually didn't understand my analogy.
It was about that avatar of yours, of course. It looks just like one of the Sims characters you can make in game. If it's not from Sims then it must be some game for even younger boys and girls...
Not that it all matters now though.

Well its from a 2012-2013 incarnation of Ubisofts Uplay service. But yeah I supposed it does not matter... Surprised it even mattered in the first place, but this is the internet after all...

 

[gamer19]

It is, indeed. And people get easily offended these days. Like spoiled brats they yelling all over about how everyone is wrong and how they all turn against them.

I was talking about Vettel, of course.

Why can't we just be friends for crying out loud, yelled Honey Badger with huge grin on his face. Though... he's great pretender, he may have fake it.
This is my favorite character sam.

 

[samcar304]

I'm happy to leave it at that, I was not offended by the post I was just confused at the statements made. So that's on me. See you around the forum

 

[RoMaN14]

Was it right in a justice sense? Absolutely.

Hope you're not in a jury or anything. The eye for an eye thing was dropped a few millennia ago, it wasn't working well for us. Well, at least you're up to speed now.

 

[Flammenjc]

Hope you're not in a jury or anything. The eye for an eye thing was dropped a few millennia ago, it wasn't working well for us. Well, at least you're up to speed now.

Said the Schumacher fan.

 

[RoMaN14]

Ad hominem as well, impressive. Naturally, I don't approve of everything my favorite sportspeople have done. But nice try, I look forward to your next attempt at an argument