Vettel / Hamilton War of Words Post Baku Contact Continues

[Stefan Woudenberg]

The FIA is starting an investigation on this incident between Vettel and Hamilton,

 

[wowbagger]

Why do they bother?

I think we have clearly established in this thread that, while Vettel broke the rules and caused two collisions, one through incompetence, and one through unrestrained wrath, it was Hamilton who, although empirical data shows he did nothing unusual or against the rules, was the true bad guy here ... um just cuz.



There was a a reddit post which was kind of interesting. I'm not sure if it's allowed to link there so I will post the images here. It is a plot for the SC restarts using data taken from the official F1 app.

- It's not mine so don't slag me over it. Instead, blame Hamilton ... it's always his fault.

 

[Monstro]

Vettel lost control, in both senses of the word.

To crash when racing at the limit = racing
To crash intentionally, through anger = dangerous / mentally unstable

Someone needs to speak to Vettel about his anger issues before someone gets hurt.

may be FIA should Fired Vettel from F1 and give the championship to Hamilton right now
it will be fair.
Vettel is dangerous, someone will be hurt or die next time, or a WW3 could begun cause of it
Please FIA , help Hamilton, he deserved it
Mercedes! slow down Bottas please to block Vettel , do something!


May be the FIA should give to hamilton the next 4 championship, and if someone could disqalify all his ooponenets please.
it would help him.

 

[Flammenjc]

I think penalty was appropriate, and I think that what he did to Hamilton also was appropriate. Now I like Vettel much more, he was fighting so hard for many seasons now, and now as he does have real chances, Hamilton using dirty tricks. Like come on... talking about "showing bad example for kids", sure... But what kind of example is to suddenly slow down a lot, so the driver who is behind would damage front wing and loose pace later. Who doesn't understand that it is even worse behavior, it is corrupting the race.

??? Hamilton HAS to slow down there to get a proper restart...

I really do get perplexed at the anti-Hamilton rhetoric shining through whilst logic gets resigned to the gutters of conscious thought..

OK, you don't like the guy, but the logic you're applying here is that just because Hamilton was involved, that he MUST take some blame. I bet if you loved apples and Hamilton said he loved them, then you'd just automatically pretend you never liked apples at all in your whole life. That's the kind of logic you are protruding with a silly comment like this..

 

[mantasisg]

??? Hamilton HAS to slow down there to get a proper restart...

I really do get perplexed at the anti-Hamilton rhetoric shining through whilst logic gets resigned to the gutters of conscious thought..

OK, you don't like the guy, but the logic you're applying here is that just because Hamilton was involved, that he MUST take some blame. I bet if you loved apples and Hamilton said he loved them, then you'd just automatically pretend you never liked apples at all in your whole life. That's the kind of logic you are protruding with a silly comment like this..

Lol I have always been cheering for Hamilton, I only think he did wrong this time.

Too much simple minds in the internet...

I understand that it hard to understand people through the internet sometimes, due to lack of expression and information overflow. Maybe I misjudge people too... But if you criticise something, or dislike certain situation, action and so on.... why should it mean that you are hater overall ?

I'd like Ferrari to win this year though. Would fit very well with 70year anniversary, and they actually can do that.

 

[Monstro]

So this is what they are doing now to try and make F1 exciting.....Oh boy.

give us a break with your "old days"

prost had hit senna , senna crashed into prost at suzuka volontary, shuey with Damon hill and shuey ...again on Villeneuve etc... etc...
just enjoy the show man.
too many pussies nowadays on track they said
Now this is war again on track,we have real battle,exciting moments , real human emotion/ behavior, and everybody wants Vettel in Jail.

you guys are schyzophrenic sometimes.

 

[Flammenjc]

Lol I have always been cheering for Hamilton, I only think he did wrong this time.

Too much simple minds in the internet...

I understand that it hard to understand people through the internet sometimes, due to lack of expression and information overflow. Maybe I misjudge people too... But if you criticise something, or dislike certain situation, action and so on.... why should it mean that you are hater overall ?

I'd like Ferrari to win this year though. Would fit very well with 70year anniversary, and they actually can do that.

I agree with you on the whole in this message, but when the factual revelation is that Hamilton didn't break the rules or "brake test" Vettel, then he can't be criticized for doing something that is common procedure under safety car can he?

So when someone is ignoring of those FACTS, it rings bells to me more often than not it's an irrational hatred or love towards one of more of the parties involved.

 

[Monstro]

I agree with you on the whole in this message, but when the factual revelation is that Hamilton didn't break the rules or "brake test" Vettel, then he can't be criticized for doing something that is common procedure under safety car can he?

you don't have to break to brutally slow down the car.
the engine break is so hard on F1 that when you released the gas pedal, the car decelerate a lot.
May be you are a little "naive"
Hamilton is on a turn, vettel right behind.
Hamilton left the turn , and begin the straight by ....released the gas pedal ...., come on....
he was so slow that the anti stall system was on.
and he's suprised vettel hit him on the back after that
really ?

don't be naive please

 

[marcocale]

Nahhhhh.... Admins should have kicked both from server......

 

[Kakusso]

The truth in a video by F1 official website

 

[Flammenjc]

you don't have to break to brutally slow down the car.
the engine break is so hard on F1 that when you released the gas pedal, the car decelerate a lot.
May be you are a little "naive"
Hamilton is on a turn, vettel right behind.
Hamilton left the turn , and begin the straight by ....released the gas pedal ...., come on....
he was so slow that the anti stall system was on.
and he's suprised vettel hit him on the back after that
really ?

don't be naive please

Yea but that's not what I'm saying is it? I'm saying what he does, doesn't constitute as a "brake test". He didn't slow down that rapidly , the problem was, Vettel had his foot in it, expecting Hamilton to accelerate before he got to him, and he didn't. It's on Vettel not Hamilton. It's completely within the rights of the leader to dictate the pace, Perez didn't have a problem slowing down did he? And normally a "brake test" causes traffic more than a few cars back to slow up.

 

[hitm4k3r]

Was the penalty for Vettel appropriated? Sure it was, but objectively speaking I miss a fair treatment for both of the drivers and it reminds me of the times when Prost was favored by a certain French FIA dude. Overall the racing quality has been pretty bad throughout the race (Kimi vs. Valteri, both Force Indias etc etc etc) and the MotoGP race at Assen showed what racing really is about. I also don't believe that Hamilton was not breaking and you can actually see it on a replay of the Sky F1 broadcast that he hit the breakes out of that turn. And even if the TV overlay was wrong, you don't need to hit the breakes to slow down a car - the sole thing we know is that he slowed down the car from 70/80 km/h to about 50 km/h. And on a final note, I will let this quote from the official FIA rulebook speak for itself wich pretty much applies for both drivers:

"39.5 No car may be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person at any time whilst the safety car is deployed. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit entry or the pit lane."

 

[samcar304]

The penalty that Hamilton got applied to him in Bahrain was a 5 second penalty for dangerous driving in the pit lane. if i remember correctly that was added on to the end of the race. Vettel was given a 10 second stop go penalty which with pit lane time resulted in almost 30 seconds of time lost. I think the penalty was fair when you look at that way.

 

[gamer19]

That's what I'm talking about !

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sainz-calls-for-rethink-of-dangerous-baku-restarts-923530/

 

[samcar304]

To be honest I think Sainz move on Grosjean in Canada was way worse than what Vettel done...

 

[Haiden773]

Absolutely insane responses.

1. Ramming someone out of anger is not allowed in F1. Period. Penalties should be severe. Doesn't matter why, because if you allow it once, you set a bad precedent, and where does it do stop. F1 = no ramming. Period. There is no debate. Whatever punishment he gets, it could have easily been avoided. It's his own fault.

2. Leaders often, if not always slow the field down before a restart. Nothing new here. In fact, Hamilton had already done it to Vettel once before that. In fact, that's probably why Vettel rear ended him. He knew Hamilton was going to slow the grid before the restart. HE ALWAYS DOES. Vettel got burned by the first time and was either trying to stay close, so it didn't happen again, or hoping he could get a jump on him at the start and overtake him there. He misjudged it, and hit him. Stop making excuses for Vettel.

 

[Monstro]

Absolutely insane responses.

1. Ramming someone out of anger is not allowed in F1. Period. Penalties should be severe. Doesn't matter why, because if you allow it once, you set a bad precedent, and where does it do stop. F1 = no ramming. Period. There is no debate. Whatever punishment he gets, it could have easily been avoided. It's his own fault.

2. Leaders often, if not always slow the field down before a restart. Nothing new here. In fact, Hamilton had already done it to Vettel once before that. In fact, that's probably why Vettel rear ended him. He knew Hamilton was going to slow the grid before the restart. HE ALWAYS DOES. Vettel got burned by the first time and was either trying to stay close, so it didn't happen again, or hoping he could get a jump on him at the start and overtake him there. He misjudged it, and hit him. Stop making excuses for Vettel.

Hamilton had problem with alonso in 2007, with Rosberg 2014,2015,2016, and now with Vettel 2017
Stop making excuses for Hamilton

 

[gamer19]

To be honest I think Sainz move on Grosjean in Canada was way worse than what Vettel done...

That's a bit off topic here isn't it.
That was lousy move but what he said here is actually quite smart. After all his opinion matters... the man was there the whole time, we were in front of our telly's.
Did you bother to even read it ?
Tbh, I doubt otherwise you would want to talk about what he said not about long gone and totaly unrelated Canada incident.
Ok, for you and those lazy enough to bother to click the link, I'll sum it all. (since I can't really copy paste it here, I was warned once by our great wise elders)
It's really hard for a driver fo follow and knows when the leaders would accelerate, especially since on circuits like this, where there's a walls around so they can see a sh1t. Leaders go fast - slow - fast - slow and then they all of sudden accelerate and guys at back are still in turns and since they can't see through walls they have really poor judgement and that can be pretty much dangerous.
Sainz even said that was the most dangerous moment of the race.
Now thank me for this summary.

@Monstro:
Grow up please.
There's no need to defend Vetttel in every single answer and talking *** about others.
Yes, you admire him, we got it already trust me.

 

[samcar304]

That's a bit off topic here isn't it.
That was lousy move but what he said here is actually quite smart. After all his opinion matters... the man was there the whole time, we were in front of our telly's.
Did you bother to even read it ?
Tbh, I doubt otherwise you would want to talk about what he said not about long gone and totaly unrelated Canada incident.
Ok, for you and those lazy enough to bother to click the link, I'll sum it all. (since I can't really copy paste it here, I was warned once by our great wise elders)
It's really hard for a driver fo follow and knows when the leaders would accelerate, especially since on circuits like this, where there's a walls around so they can see a sh1t. Leaders go fast - slow - fast - slow and then they all of sudden accelerate and guys at back are still in turns and since they can't see through walls they have really poor judgement and that can be pretty much dangerous.
Sainz even said that was the most dangerous moment of the race.
Now thank me for this summary.

@Monstro:
Grow up please.
There's no need to defend Vetttel in every single answer and talking *** about others.
Yes, you admire him, we got it already trust me.

I rarely call people out because I'm not that type of person, but pre judging me for the second time this week after the Isle of man TT thread is not on. It's more ignorance on your part that you would hastily assume such things. Yes I read the article. Whilst reading the article it reminded me of the move Sainz made on Grosjean, and how dangerous it was. Regarding whether or not it is relevant; The thread is discussing the severity of Vettel's penalty. I said in my previous post that I thought Sainz move on Grosjean was worse than what Vettel had done. Sainz got a grid penalty for "carelessness and potentially dangerous driving" Sainz incident was at racing speed, he made two collisions with Grosjean. After the first contact he knew someone was there and then still proceeded to move over again. He ended up taking out Massa in quite a heavy shunt. It was the type of move that could I have resulted in a SPA 2012 style crash. For me that is much worse than what Vettel has done. But it's more about Vettel's conduct during the incident that has caused the investigation.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

Yeah, I think there is a huge difference between a collision that occurs through hard, close racing, and a collision that is caused through anger as a (misguided) retaliation. The fact that Vettel crashed into Hamilton whilst they were not racing makes it even more unacceptable, in my opinion.

This shouldn't be about how hard he hit him, or how fast they were travelling, but the reason that he chose to hit him. Oh, and the fact that he seems to have no recollection of the collision even happening