Vettel Blames Verstappen for Japanese Grand Prix Clash

[muzikant]

Well, I do not think I'll ever talk about Max again here. If Max is still to blame if someone pounds at him, that is pointless. Trolls and haters. But it has little to do with motorsport in general. Think I will enjoy Max more than you of Vettel. He will get very heavy with leclerq next year. I am concerned about honesty in general enough to admit if it is his fault. Like in China. What I said earlier when max does something wrong, there are so many messages and when he shows beautiful things last time Singapore. Rusia I never read the good things. See what you want to see
But your Vettel fans are blind so why should I give my opinion?

 

[Andy_J]

what does my age have to do with that?

Because you type and react like you must be at least 9 yrs old. A lot of us one here are mature and sensible and we don't go for all this "hater" crap. Grow up.

 

[Kenny Paton]

Let's all take a chill pill guys, and cut out the personal insults.

 

[Andy_J]

Let's all take a chill pill guys, and cut out the personal insults.

I am sorry Kenny. You are right. Must not resort to insults of any kind. My bad.

But it's obvious to the world that Verstappen was to blame..............

 

[Jacco van der Zaag]

So everybody who disagrees with the Max boys are Vettel fans? That's funny. Never considered myself a Vettel fan. Nice that somebody else is speaking and thinking for me.

And are you trying to talk China straight again? Wow. Just wow.

 

[muzikant]

I am sorry Kenny. You are right. Must not resort to insults of any kind. My bad.

But it's obvious to the world that Verstappen was to blame..............

Haha you are funny! Not in this poll. in your world

 

[Appie Kuipers]

Well, I do not think I'll ever talk about Max again here. If Max is still to blame if someone pounds at him, that is pointless. Trolls and haters. But it has little to do with motorsport in general. Think I will enjoy Max more than you of Vettel. He will get very heavy with leclerq next year. I am concerned about honesty in general enough to admit if it is his fault. Like in China. What I said earlier when max does something wrong, there are so many messages and when he shows beautiful things last time Singapore. Rusia I never read the good things. See what you want to see
But your Vettel fans are blind so why should I give my opinion?

We can't quit posting Muzikant, some overhere need us, so they can spit frustrations!!

 

[Jacco van der Zaag]

Sad, to make fun of people who try to have real discussions with you guys.
But instead, you wield a 'plate in front of your head' (freely translated from Dutch) and not a single argument, true or false, sinks in.

The Max syndrome is starting to get sickening. Sorry to say that, but there is no way to have a decent chat with you gents.

 

[dadara74]

Vettel was alongside early enough to be allowed a car width and this is the initial contact.

Anyone putting this 100% on Vettel is being funny. Is everyone supposed to go on grass to pass Max? Is that a rule somewhere we don't know about?

A simple screenshot doesnt tell the whole story....it is a divebomb from Vettel into a (very fast) closing gap as Verstappen needs to hit the apex to stay on track in that corner (Spoon), he is on the racing line and Vettel is not. If you dont steer into the apex you overshoot the corner with that speed, you need to know and respect that as an overtaker in that particular corner, you cannot simply muscle your car in between like you would do at the last chicane on this track, you need to be next to the car earlier as seen in other overtaking manouvers during this race. It's nothing more than a racing incident in my opinion.

As for the 1st lap incident Verstappen locks and overshoots the chicane onto the slippy green stuff, then tries to follow the track instead of cutting the chicane (like Bottas did later in the race, unpunished) and thus prevent getting penalized for gaining an advantage. After re-entering the track like this (as he must do, he clearly cannot park the car there, so it means coming off the green stuff with dirty tires, bouncing, no grip on front tires) he did a full lock left and cannot make a tighter turn left (seen in the onboard camera). The main point Verstappen is making about the 5 sec penalty is that he does everything to prevent a penalty (follow the track instead of cutting) and still gets penalized, while Kimi who is in the position to anticipate on this (he was behind Verstappen all this time, not next to him) takes the risk himself by overtaking round the outside. As Verstappen mentioned he could have braked a bit and crossed/passed on the left, Vettel was too far behind Kimi to come in the way.

In my opinion its a clear case of first lap racing incident, not worth a penalty

 

[Appie Kuipers]

Sad, to make fun of people who try to have real discussions with you guys.
But instead, you wield a 'plate in front of your head' (freely translated from Dutch) and not a single argument, true or false, sinks in.

The Max syndrome is starting to get sickening. Sorry to say that, but there is no way to have a decent chat with you gents.

It is just done because some respond with the same sickening anti-hype! Mirror, Mirror.

 

[paracletus]

I support stewards decision (no action), not dwelling on it.
Maybe a little clumsy, but it didn't look like anything out of the ordinary.
At least they tried to race.

 

[Jacco van der Zaag]

It is just done because some respond with the same sickening anti-hype! Mirror, Mirror.

I'm not anti hyping mister Mirror. I'm countering with arguments about the penalties and why somebody gets penalized, or not.

 

[PhilS13]

A simple screenshot doesnt tell the whole story....it is a divebomb from Vettel into a (very fast) closing gap as Verstappen needs to hit the apex to stay on track in that corner (Spoon), he is on the racing line and Vettel is not. If you dont steer into the apex you overshoot the corner with that speed, you need to know and respect that as an overtaker in that particular corner, you cannot simply muscle your car in between like you would do at the last chicane on this track, you need to be next to the car earlier as seen in other overtaking manouvers during this race

The discussion whether or not he was up high early enough to be given space is a reasonable one to have. I think it was certainly late but just barely enough and I'm a guy that absolutely hate those last moment lunges. Max definitely doesn't commit to the apex early on like you suggest he was obligated to do to make the corner. Contact would have happened much earlier if he had done that. It's like he aknowledges he needs to leave space but then leaves so little that he inside car has to climb the kerb and obviously hits him.

We also don't know if Vettel would have been able to hold it inside if he had been given the car width...maybe not. If Max leaves a bit more room then still gets hit this is 100% Vettel but it's not what happened.

 

[dadara74]

The discussion whether or not he was up high early enough to be given space is a reasonable one to have. I think it was certainly late but just barely enough and I'm a guy that absolutely hate those last moment lunges. Max definitely doesn't commit to the apex early on like you suggest he was obligated to do to make the corner. Contact would have happened much earlier if he had done that. It's like he aknowledges he needs to leave space but then leaves so little that he inside car has to climb the kerb and obviously hits him.

We also don't know if Vettel would have been able to hold it inside if he had been given the car width...maybe not. If Max leaves a bit more room then still gets hit this is 100% Vettel but it's not what happened.

A fine example of a racing incident imo, so in my opinion they handled it very well. But imagine the uproar if it was the other way around......

 

[Thomas Lambaerts]

I'm in the same boat, racing incident.
Max his fault for leaving about 50 cm's to little room ( i have no idea when he saw vettel, i think he was completely surprised that Vettel tried there. The ferrari having the superior speed )
Vettel, a pretty late dive into a difficult high speed corner where there is hardly more than a single racing line if you don't want to compromise your speed on the straight after.

 

[Stevie777]

Back on topic: the spoon is a very tricky place to attempt that kind of pass. Seems like Max started his turn into the corner around the same time Seb started his dive-bomb so it's hard to tell who's to blame...but given the nature of that corner, I vote racing incident, leaning a little more towards Seb on blame.

Best comment....

 

[Deleted member 113561]

Back on topic: the spoon is a very tricky place to attempt that kind of pass. Seems like Max started his turn into the corner around the same time Seb started his dive-bomb so it's hard to tell who's to blame...but given the nature of that corner, I vote racing incident, leaning a little more towards Seb on blame.

I agree mostly - but I think Vettel simply went in a little too fast. At least Verstappen got now a taste of his own medicine, maybe that stops him a bit from hitting other people.

 

[VirtuaIceMan]

I'd blame Vettel; Verstappen already had a 5 second penalty at pitstop so he didn't need to try such a risky manoeuvre. Sure, try to overtake, but not at a corner where cars usually collide trying to do so.

 

[Wedge]

It was clearly Grosjean fault.

Jokes aside, it could be considered a racing incident if wasn't for Vettel one of the involved drivers. He's feeling the pressure and losing his head.

 

[Sfrost]

I chock the clash up as a racing incident. Vettel goes for a late braking move which we see others do at the same corner later on in the race. He gets his front tyres almost level with Verstappen's which is more than enough to be given a right to the inside line and make sure the other car leaves you space. However, Verstappen despite knowing Vettel is on his inside and has an overspeed takes the normal racing line and closes down on Vettel's line resulting in the crash. Verstappen is not the kind of driver to leave other cars space he is very aggressive, we saw that with how he forced Kimi off the track to keep his 3rd place after missing the chicane.

It was a risky move from Vettel probably thinking Verstappen would be a bit more compliant given the circumstances (early in the race, Ferrari is faster than the redbull, Verstappen not in the championship fight etc etc) but Verstappen wasn't, probably pissed at his 5sec penalty and wanted to stick it to the Ferraris.

With risky moves like that or overtaking in general it requires a degree of compliance and respect towards your fellow driver so accidents don't happen and when your missing those you get drivers like Magnussen straight up blocking overtakes.

Did Vettel make a risky move - Yes
Did Vettel have to make it then - Who knows, the race might have turned out very differently had it been successful.
..but did Verstappen have to close him down - no he could probably have just held the outside and still kept the position probably.

And that's why I think it's a racing incident because both drivers could have done something to avoid causing the clash by Vettel not making such a risky move in the first place and by Verstappen reacting smarter to the move when he saw it coming.