Upgrading Sound

[Clover11]

Sound is a big part of the experience for me and I am looking to upgrade from the gaming headset I got as a gift a long time ago. Since I tend to race at night after my wife goes to bed, I almost always use headphones. I'm perfectly fine with adding a Amp/DAC for the setup and they don't need to have a mic as I am fine running an external mic. I'm just digging into this, but here is some of what I am looking into now. Imaging, and comfort are big factors for me. Originally I was thinking open back but it seems like there are also good closed back options like the Beyerdynamic MX300. I have also seen a lot of recommendations for the Artic Steel Series Pro wireless. I had not really been thinking wireless would give me the same sound but I don't know much.


Headphones:
Sennheiser HD600, HD598 HD 599
Audeze LCD-1 or LCD-2
HiFiMan Sundras
Beyerdynamic 1990, 770 or MX300
Grado?
Maybe even spring for some Focal Elex

AMP:
Schiit Magnius
Shiit Magi

DAC:
Schiit Modius
Schiid Modi

Maybe the Schiit Hel would work well for both but I kind of like the idea of a balance setup with the Magnius/Modius.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Little history, when K701 first came out they were universally criticized for anemic bass, K702 released later was supposed to fix that deficiency (reason I decided to try them out), but guess simple driver tuning was not enough and they were still the most boring and anemic phones in my stash.
If you check frequency graphs, K702 received slight bump in high bass and low-mids area comparing to 701.
Some people praise them for accuracy, from what I've read some tube amps can "warm" them up to make less clinical.
When it comes to audio personal preferences play much bigger role than in judging FFB in different titles.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I bow to the sheer repetitiveness of this discussion. Carry on.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I bow to the sheer repetitiveness of this discussion. Carry on.

Was pointing to the difference between 701 and 702 as based on your reaction and selective quote somehow you've found my comments amusing.
Feel free to drop off if you are not entertained by the subject.

 

[Guido Trampe]

I am using Audeze Mobius for almost a year now. The sound of these are amazing and the 3d audio option (USB cable connection mandetory) is great in racing titles. For me price quality wise this was a clear winner in relation to some other gaming oriented headsets I had tried.

Audeze Mobius Headphones

Our Audeze Mobius headphones produce the very definition of audio perfection. To learn more, look through our selection of high-quality headphones.

www.audeze.com

 

[Mr Latte]

Was pointing to the difference between 701 and 702 as based on your reaction and selective quote somehow you've found my comments amusing.
Feel free to drop off if you are not entertained by the subject.

You are coming at this from an audiophile perspective.
Highlighting lists of fancy headphones you claim to have owned over the years, mentioning DACs that are stupid silly prices.

I see this a bit similar, to a friend I have. He's always chasing the new or better thing, rather than just enjoying, and I mean fully enjoying and being content with what he has. Yet he never seems fully content, every six or so months he gets the itch again. Spends and to some extents wastes a lot of money on this "habbit" seeking for perfection all the while his own hearing is worsening as he ages.

You can get superb audio quality, build and comfort these days for not so much. Yet we are talking here about a gamer wanting to move up from a gaming headset. You do not need to go overboard to get a step up in quality, build, comfort, or convenience.

Not everyone has "trained ears" or scrutinizes how different frequencies are represented. This user maybe doesn't even know if they prefer a closed-in or open, larger soundstage. All I did was give two decent but very different options and tbh I think both are more than fine but different people would prefer one over the other.

The OP hasn't even mentioned a budget, maybe better to be more realistic here or establish a price point to work from. Oh, and btw, millions of people use Bluetooth audio every day without finding it lacking.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I think the issue is that the OP did started the conversation mentioning $200-$400 headphones, and $100-$200 DACS and AMPS. That opened a door to this conversation.

For sim racing, I would think that the key features would be #1 comfort, #2 volume, #3 dynamic range and "good" sound. The other question is whether he wanted sealed or open cans depending on rig noise rejection

Sim game sound tracks are not challenging. There is engine roar, tire roar, wind, a coach talking in your ear, clanks, suspension bumps, etc. Some people will listen to music when they race, but absolutely none of this needs to be accurate.

Just about any USB DAC/Amp with a volume knob will be good enough in terms of sound quality for sim racing.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

May be OP can clarify as some headphones from the list like LCD-2 are ~$1K.
I do agree that for gaming alone high audiophile equipment is overkill. Onboard audio with some low impedance phones will do just fine.

 

[Mr Latte]

May be OP can clarify as some headphones from the list like LCD-2 are ~$1K.
I do agree that for gaming alone high audiophile equipment is overkill. Onboard audio with some low impedance phones will do just fine.

Why would any gamer looking to improve their audio want to settle with onboard audio?
High-end DAC is not needed, too extreme. Yet a good soundcard with its own EQ with presets to suit different content are beneficial and will help improve the sound quality over onboard options.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Why would any gamer looking to improve their audio want to settle with onboard audio?
High-end DAC is not needed, too extreme. Yet a good soundcard with its own EQ with presets to suit different content are beneficial and will help improve the sound quality over onboard options.

Because most modern high end MBs are packed with very good ones, at least Asus ROGs I use in my builds do. It's not as good as dedicated Auralic Vega, but beats most budget USB solutions.

 

[Mr Latte]

There you go again, Auralic Vega, lol come back to earth mate...

Not everyone has such a motherboard. I doubt what Asus put on a packaged board is any better or indeed much worse than what they offer from other options. Although they seem to have dropped bringing out new higher-end audio solutions.

EVGA seems to of taken the lead but not many will spend £300+ on a soundcard.

I've more recently owned:

Asus ROG Xonar Phoebus 7.1
Asus Essence STX 7.1
Asus U7 USB 7.1
Asus U5 USB 5.1

Creative X3 7.1
EVGA Pro Nu Audio 7.1
Onboard Creative Audio 7.1

From all those, for me the EVGA is the best for sound quality but the X3 is fantastic for its price.
Being USB also has some advantages and its modes or controls via Bluetooth make it modern for those that want such controls.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Why do you keep changing them?
"Chasing the new or better thing, rather than just enjoying, and I mean fully enjoying and being content with what you have"?

 

[Mr Latte]

Why do you keep changing them?
"Chasing the new or better thing, rather than just enjoying, and I mean fully enjoying and being content with what you have"?

Well, that was quite predictable response.

However no, not the same as actually the Phoebus and STX are quite old and from a previous setup that's now sold.

I bought most of the others over the last year or so for Simhub testing.
The configuration I am going to use with it requires 3x 7.1 cards for tactile effects and then a further 7.1 soundcard for audio. I route all that audio into a 32 channel digital stage box which then connects to my mixer via ethernet.

So in needing multiple cards I compared some but I've ended up with 3 of the X3 cards for Simhub and the Pro Nu Audio as the primary soundcard.
I will ebay the Asus U5 and U7 cards

 

[Clover11]

Well... my old headset literally fell apart in my hands last night. Guess that means it is time for me to make a decision. I am now thinking of getting a used set of a relatively higher level of headphones. Mainly looking at the Sennheiser HD800S the Audeze LCD-X, and Focal Clears. Maybe dumb, but I figure I could try them out for a bit, and if I don't like them I should be able to resale them and recoup most if not all of what I buy them for. I don't think the wife is thrilled with the idea of me buying a used set of $1K headphones which she sees and disposable every couple years. I was thinking these were a little higher level and would last me better and be resalable as opposed to a BT set which she kind of has a point about.

What do you guys think? Dumb idea to get used relatively high end headphones or a decent way to test stuff out without loosing too much if I decide I want something else after a month.

Any set you would steer me to or away from?

 

[Clover11]

Oh, and I missed my shot at the HD6XXs. They sold through and the next batch is not expected until the end of May.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Check hifiman clearance sale.

https://store.hifiman.com/clearance-sales

 

[Clover11]

Thanks, I snatched up a pair of Sundaras from them. They were listed as out of stock when I first looked and I thought they had all already been sold, but when I checked back today they had a set available. Seems like people feel they are a great value planar for the price they are at and I want to try a planar so this is a affordable way to try them I guess. I kind of want to get another set to compare them against and learn more about what I like. I w6ish the HD6XXs were available anytime soon.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Very nice, I was looking to grab one for myself but they were out of stock, seems like you got lucky.
Check Tyll's review https://www.stereophile.com/content/hifiman-sundara-around-ear-open-planar-magnetic-headphones

I had LCD-2 before, very nice lush sound signature but couldn't live with their torturous ergnonomics and weight. These should be much better in that regard, half the weight and better headband design.

 

[RCHeliguy]

As an aside I was just poking in on an audio forum where a few guys were saying that the music sounds better off their SACD players than off of files. They were comparing against 24bit/96kHz files.

It doesn't matter that a disk can have imperfections, scratches, dust, and that a transport mechanism just gives you another point of failure and noise. Then they complain about hearing jitter, which means nothing if you are running async USB, most modern DAC's will also buffer SPDIF so there is no communication jitter. The bytes are sitting right there ready to be read by the DAC at the same clock as the DAC.

I've also heard guys talk about how much better their amplifiers or CD players sound with $200 power cables. You can explain all day long that they have cheap romex in the walls leading up to their plug and putting a couple feet of special wire at the end of that chain means absolutely nothing.

Just saying that you have to take a lot of what you hear from audiophiles with a grain of salt. They tend to be highly opinionated and many believe in magic.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

There is a lot of delusional people there. You have to read comparative review of $1K power cables, poetry that can make Pushkin jealous.
USB audio was hit and miss, mostly a miss in isochronous days. I've used few solutions when it was the only technology available. Yes, at that time SACD/CD was clearly better, nowadays it's probably not an issue, but even async USB dacs come in different quality. So they might not be completely off with their assessment depending what they compare against. Clock in DAC is very sensitive, I have few settings on mine from Coarse to Exact, and Exact can skip when system gets busy, so the jitter is still there, I am afraid.
Perhaps the reason most big names DAC makers move to wireless streaming.

 

[RCHeliguy]

My Oppo 105D is my DAC for SACD's, streamed audio, and music from my JRiver music server which has files all the way up to 24bits by 196kHz uncompressed.

I use JRiver to send music by async USB to my OPPO 105D, so the only difference with physical media is that there is transport noise and more possibility for error.

Btw I heard one guy say he wasn't happy with his new power cables until he broke them in for 2 weeks running a fan. LOL! Then he said they sounded better. I swear I'm not making this up.