Tyre temperatures

[Tim Ling]

I get the feeling there may not be a precise answer to this, but here goes.

The setup guide recommends tyre temps of 90-110 deg. Should I put air in to increase the temp, or take it out? And how many....whatsits...equal 1psi?

I am trying to understand how setups work, lets just say I'm a little, um, special, and need extra help

 

[Tim Ling]

That's true mate, plus the tyre wall can move around that much more

 

[David Hal]

I'm glad I spotted this post :becky:

I always thought the higher the pressure the more heat.

You're not the only one

I thought the same thing about pressure and heat.

That's true mate, plus the tyre wall can move around that much more

What's the benefit of more movement of the tire wall?

 

[Herwin Ploeg]

You're not the only one

I thought the same thing about pressure and heat.



What's the benefit of more movement of the tire wall?

The tire wall acts as a part of the suspension so when the wall is moving more it will catch a little piece of the bumps like curbs. You always see this in F1 replays (a vibrating tire wall) But when its moving to much this will give a wobly handling. Also when the wall is moving more it wil generate more heat inside the tire, and tire pressure wil rise.

 

[Lee Downham]

... also feels like its 'wallowing' like a boat and scrubs round corners if tyre walls have too much give in them.

 

[Grégory Cogotti]

Anyone know what is the optimal pressure an temperature for the Mini?

In my case i think the optimal pressure is 176kpa, but maybe i'm wrong, so i want to know if it's more important to balance the pressure or the temperature?

 

[Neil Gault]

Anyone know what is the optimal pressure an temperature for the Mini?

In my case i think the optimal pressure is 176kpa, but maybe i'm wrong, so i want to know if it's more important to balance the pressure or the temperature?

myself i always try to balance the temperature, the way i see it is if you have tyre showing 84/86/88 then at least you know it is making contact in the right places.

the info from the mini tyre file reads
Temperatures=(90.0,80.0) // Optimum operating temperature for peak forces, cold starting temp (Celsius)
OptimumPressureBase=133.0 // Base pressure to remain flat on ground at zero load 132.5
OptimumPressureMult=0.00980 // Multiplier by load to stay flat on ground was 0.0100
GripTempPress=(2.25, 0.50, 0.30) // Grip effects of being below temp,above temp, and off-pressure (higher number -> faster grip dropoff)

 

[Grégory Cogotti]

I don't understand this line:
OptimumPressureBase=133.0 // Base pressure to remain flat on ground at zero load 132.5
This mean that the optimum pressure is 133.0 kpa?! I'm sure it isn't that, can you give me an example or some precision about the pressure. I'm sorry, but i never take care at my tyre, and i want to learn more because i'm sure i can improve my times if i can setup well this point.

PS: I have already read this :
* Lower pressure = Higher temperature
* Higher pressure = Lower temperature
* Higher spring rates equates to higher temperatures ( tires get "pushed" to the ground)
* More toe in (a greater - value) in the front tires causes higher temperatures
* More toe out (a greater + value) in the rear tires causes higher temperatures
* The Anti roll bar is also used for equalizing the temperatures across a set of wheels
* Higher tire pressure will get you a more responsive setup, but to much and you'll lose grip - lower pressure works the other way around
* The temperature spread across a tire should be between 5-10 degrees C (use camber to adjust temperature)
* Optimal tire pressure is somewhere around 180 kpa it's for wtcc car but for Mini?
* The tires shouldn't get warmer than 100 c (if you want them to last a race) all class are concerned?

 

[Neil Gault]

I don't understand this line:
OptimumPressureBase=133.0 // Base pressure to remain flat on ground at zero load 132.5
This mean that the optimum pressure is 133.0 kpa?! I'm sure it isn't that, can you give me an example or some precision about the pressure. I'm sorry, but i never take care at my tyre, and i want to learn more because i'm sure i can improve my times if i can setup well this point.

ye that one gets me a bit myself, guess it means the pressure without any other factors like the weight of the car being applied, or maybe someone else could shine some light on that one.

 

[Lee Downham]

OptimumPressureBase=133.0 // Base pressure to remain flat on ground at zero load 132.5
ye that one gets me a bit myself, guess it means the pressure without any other factors like the weight of the car being applied, or maybe someone else could shine some light on that one.

Quote from a thread at RSC says:Flat means the tread is not distorted and so the tyre heats evenly across the tread. Pressure is in kPa. Typically the actual pressure setting in the .hdv file will be around 20 kPa greater than this value. Failure to set the hdv properly can lead to poor performance which may not be able to be fixed in the garage.

What that really means is anyone's guess :wink:

EDIT: not had chance to read it yet buuuut ... there is loads more info and a real world type explanation further down the same thread:
http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=181414

 

[Grégory Cogotti]

Thanks Lee but i haven't the courage to decrypt your link :scared:

 

[Lee Downham]

Ooops ... wrong thread :whistle:

http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f230/damnit72/RTT icons/

 

[Lee Downham]

Thanks Lee but i haven't the courage to decrypt your link :scared:

Me neither ... took one look and decided to :behindsofa:
... that is why I posted it up for you lot to let me know what the hell it all means :lol:

 

[Lee Williamson]

Lots of great info here guys. Just had a quick read through and went for a tinker.
Loaded up the F3000 at brands and within half an hour I'm lapping in low 1:15's with my best only 0.7s off the lap record, so I'm pretty chuffed.
Having said that I've tinkered some more and messed it up a bit - trouble at brands is I can't get the right tyre temps up, but does that matter!? The tyres unloaded in all but a few corners so I guessed it doesn't really matter. Gona be a struggle to find that last half a second but I've not done too much with gear ratios, and what the bump settings do is still beyond me - some more reading and another go I think .

 

[Paul Storey]

A very useful thread and I've been trying out some of the ideas.

I've been tinkering with camber and pressure to get it to look like this,

(86 88 90) (94 92 90)


(70 72 74) (64 62 60)

As you can see the rear right tyre is very low but no matter what I do I cant get it to go up much. That's on a clockwise track, on an anti clockwise track like Valencia it's the rear left that is too low.

Bare in mind that is the temps after I return to the garage after a few laps as I don't have real time telemetry set up yet.

hex

 

[Lee Downham]

try a bit more spring rate on rear :wink:

OK ... what about this ... opposite problem.
I recently had the issue where I had lowest spring setting poss for a car and quite even spread of temps across each tyre, and across the 4 x tyres ... but after 2 laps the tyres were all overheating (and no I wasn't sliding into corners or doing burnouts )
Anyone got suggestions what to do in such a situation?

 

[Ries Notenboom]

Nice read here in this thread and on the several links posted. Big thanks for that, needed to freshen my clocky memory !

Tyre temps and finding the optimum is a struggle which can take me hours. Usually till such a point that my eyes are bleeding and my brain can't cope with the constant lapping anymore and my hands start to give in.

But sometimes you get it right pretty fast and sometimes you think you got it to find out in a race your tyres are totally worn a good number of laps before the planned pit.

Joys of simracing are the variables :dance2:

 

[Jamie Mac]

Ok, so who wants to be my race engineer?

I'm in the FBMW, at Spa04, and I can't get the tyre temps up.

Because the track is SO bumpy, if I put spring rates up the car turns into a Tokyo Drifter. This is the highest I can get it, should I just accept that my temps will be lower around spa?

 

[Luc Mangas]

I have the same issue as Hexman with the Seat Leon (WTCC), my rear tyres are always in the 75° vicinity. I tried lots of settings (anti roll bar, low pressure, high pressure), nothing helped to heat them up to 90°.
Lee Downham, if you stiffen the spring, you will loose grip, no ? what's the point of heating up to 90 if in the end, you have less grip ? I mean, the final objective is to get the maximum grip

 

[Paul Storey]

Hi Nexus, I'm still having the same problem and nothing seems to change it. If I find an answer I will let you know.

On WTCC 07 cars which is what I am mainly using atm, to get the centre tyre temp to average between the two outer temps I have to put the pressures up to about 180 on the rears and in the mid 170s for the fronts.

Is that a bit on the high side or are other drivers using around the same pressures?

hex

 

[Luc Mangas]

yes, mid 170s for the front, for now I am putting 168 for the rear, as it evens out the 3 temps (intter, middle , outer) for both tyre.