# tyre numbers

Discussion in 'F1 2011 - The Game' started by jarmin0123, Oct 13, 2011.

1. ### jarmin0123

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hey i was just wondering when you select a tyre before a race when choosing your race strategy what do the numbers inside and outside of the tyres represent, i know they represent something to do with the life of the tyres but am really confused...

2. ### Igor Tomičić

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General consensus is that inner number represents tyre's life expectancy and outer one duration of best grip levels for qualifying.

3. ### taz1004

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In other words... both numbers together will always equal a whole number. That's how many laps the tire has. The number on the outside is how many laps (usually less than 1 lap) it will take to scrub it. Again, this is a speculation too but makes most sense.

4. ### jblank

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I've always wondered this also, but that seems to make sense Igor and taz.

5. ### Kevin Amankwah

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This is from a member who attended a pre-release event:

T4RG4 said the same thing on twitter once, can't find it right now though. To sum up, Igor is correct, the outside number is the number of laps of 'ultimate' qualifying grip, the inside number is the life of the tyre left after the immediate 'ultimate' grip is gone.

Add them up and you get the complete tyre life.

Edit: Found the tweet: https://twitter.com/#!/T4RG4/status/117013901824114689 ("Laps of ultimate grip and laps of standard grip remaining. For your race distance.")

6. ### taz1004

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So immediately off the pit you get the best traction? Hmm... my experience is that the tire is very slippery at first and then sticks really well after that outside number of laps is gone. Are you sure the outside number is amount of laps it provides ultimate grip? Not amount of laps needs to be used before the optimum grip?

7. ### Kevin Amankwah

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Yup I'm sure unless I was lied to or he was mistaken. I asked a dev myself a while ago via PM on the official forums. Ultimate grip (for qualifying) on the outside, inside is the life of the tyre after the ultimate grip is gone. T4RG4 said the same thing on twitter, posted above, and the same thing was said by posters who attended CM events.

8. ### taz1004

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Not saying that you're lying but doesn't make sense to me... for most tracks, I found that outside number to be like 0.8 or something like that. So I would use up that ultimate grip on my warmup lap which is not even counted? Or is the number not taking the warmup lap into account?

9. ### Kevin Amankwah

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The number is also affected by the distance you are racing on. I race only 100% and I can get 1.2-2+ laps of 'ultimate' grip for qualifying on options. On primes the number is lower due to the fact it's supposed to be a stronger, more gradual tyre (obviously would change with the compound).

If you race gently enough on the outlap your 'ultimate' grip should last enough to get one or two good laps in. But yes, your warmup lap also counts to overall wear.

If I can't convince you, T4RG4 posted the same thing on twitter. Outside number - ultimate laps, inside number - standard laps

10. ### Michael Brown

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After a pit stop in the race the new tires you get are cold, taking about a lap to warm up which is also about the same distance before yu take the edge off the tire.

11. ### taz1004

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Yea, that was actually my point. If the ultimate grip is provided during that out side number as Kevin and T4RG4 said, then it's basically wasted on cold tire. Engineer usually says my tires are at optimum temperature on about lap 3. I so far have ran 50% races. And in qualifying, my fastest lap usually comes at lap 2 or 3. Even though option tire has 2 laps of outer number.

Kevin, I just think either T4RG4 is mistaken or mis-spoke. Try this, start a practice session, run just enough laps to scrub that outside number, get back into the pits. Put another tire, go out and then come back in. Then put the first scrubbed tire back on and get out. The engineer says "You should be able to push it a little early once the scrubbed tires are up to temperature" That tells me the outside has to be removed BEFORE the optimum grip. Otherwise, why would he tell me to push it earlier with tires that have optimum grip gone?

I think it's fact that outside number and inside number together is the life of the tire. That we know. And I don't think it really matters as it's only for 1 or 2 laps but the question here is does that outer number provide more grip or less grip?

12. ### Jayc72

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Less grip.

Heat cycle - A tire that has been heated up through use and then cooled down has experienced one heat cycle. This often results in a slight hardening of the tire compound, which can make the tire perform at a high level for a longer period of time.
Heat cycle is closely related to ...
Scrubbed tires -Also known as Scuffed Tires, which have a few laps on them to remove the outer sheen and provide more consistent traction.The actual softness of the tyre rubber is varied by changes in the proportions of ingredients added to the rubber, of which the three main ones are carbon, sulphur and oil. Generally speaking, the more oil in a tyre, the softer it will be.

Hence why you see the drivers weave side to side and perform controlled burnouts just prior to race start. To generate heat into the tyres, for a couple of reasons
Firstly - removing that shiny slippery outer sheen, and getting to the sticky stuff.
Secondly and more importantly, as rubber molecules are heated they contract giving you that sticky feeling.
A simple experiment with a thick rubberband can illustrate this. Stretch and release the rubberband quickly. When stretched the rubber is hot, when released it's cool. When it "falls off the cliff", it snaps

So the more 'outer number' you have on the tyre the less sticky it will be compared to one that has it's outer layer scrubbed. Of course a tyre near it's end of life will have little grip too.

The outer number plus the inner number is the total (estimated) number of laps that tyre has.
It's estimated, since some drivers are gentle on tyre usage while others are worse.

13. ### taz1004

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Okay... I think I solved the mystery. Jayc72, that's what I thought too but I did some searching and found this.

http://www.manipef1.com/news/articles/11982/

R
ead the 6th paragraph. So T4RG4 and Kevin must be correct. The problem is race length. With 100% race, the outside number on option tire is 2.1 (Malaysia). That's enough to do the outlap plus one golden lap. In 50% or shorter race however, the lifespan of the tires are cut accordingly and option tire's outside number is 1. Which you'll be wasting on the outlap. So in order to take advantage of this ultimate grip of the tires, you should qualify in 100% at least. And then scale down the race length afterwards.

And it's my guess that this only applies to option tires because prime tires had outside number of 1 even at 100% which makes it pointless. Still puzzling why the engineer tells me to push it early on scuffed tires.

14. ### Jayc72

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So?
The outside number being 2.1 just means that it will take 2.1 laps to wear off the outer sheen to give you a scrubbed tyre.
That's 2.1 laps of "normal" driving.
BUT do you see F1 drivers just cruise on their outlap ???? Like they are going to pick up groceries?
No they weave, they perform controlled burnouts to get that outer sheen off quicker. So they get to the good rubber faster.

In the game ... are you weaving, and heat cycling the tyres on your outlap?
Do one lap in new tyres and return to the pits ... check the outer number now, it should be, roughly, one lap less.

Oh before I forget ... the roughness of the track surface plays a role in sheering rubber off a tyre as well.
So a smoother track surface will see the "outer" number higher.
The Sepang track is built using a specially formulated bitumen compound, which is smooth and not too abrasive to suit the Malaysian climate and year-round use. Smooth river stones were used for the gravel beds along the track.
So yes, Sepang's track surface is smoother than most of the older venues in the F1 calendar. Hence a higher outer number to remove the outer sheen of the tyre.

A fresh tyre can never be as sticky and up to performance compared to a tyre that has heat cycled through it.
Never has never will be. Even the game physics models this behavior in a fresh new tyre. A fresh new tyre is not as fast (sticky) as a scrubbed one. I don't know why anyone is entertaining the thought that the outside number is the number of laps of ultimate stickiness. It isn't. Use your heart ...

15. ### taz1004

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I agree with you there. I've been saying that all along. I don't know why you're stressing that to me again. But that NOT what we're discussing here. Either you didn't read the link I posted above or didn't understand it.

Pirelli tires this year provides maximum grip for FIRST 2 laps during qualifying. Allowing drivers to put in ONE golden lap on their first qualifying lap. So the outside number does provide MORE grip. Not less.

Now in this game, that works as it should for 100% race. As the outside number is 2. If you cut the race length to 50%, that number will be 1. You won't be able to use the maximum grip as you will waste it on outlap.

16. ### Jayc72

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I read that article. It doesn't mention the prep of the tyre during an outlap.
It just means the new Pirelli characteristics enables the tyre to reach optimum sooner, that is, you can scrub the tyre in one outlap, giving you an optimum run in your first qualifying run. The Bridgestones in previous years needed more laps to scrub to the good stuff, but they also lasted longer in races. The Pirellis scrub faster, but don't last as long as Bridgestones, or has everyone forgotten the F1 races a couple of years ago?

My qualifying is always faster on the second lap after exiting the pits, ie after I have scrubbed the tyre and sufficient heat has been put in. So that outer number cannot be the number of laps for optimum tire performance.
Otherwise, you will not see drivers weave or burnout before a race start or during the outlap before a qualifying run. They would be gingerly accelerating out of the pits and around the track.

17. ### Kevin Amankwah

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If you race 100% the outside number is always greater than one, which gives you the opportunity to scrub the tyres to heat them up and then get in one good lap.

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19. ### Jayc72

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You're still not getting it Kevin.
If the outside number is greater than 1 (say 2) then you need 2 laps to get it to Phase 2 of the tyre for optimum grip.
That's 2 laps of normal driving on the track, like you would in a race.
But you can reduce this number by burnouts, weaving, etc...

That outer number IS laps till Phase 2 of the tyre.
It is NOT how many laps of optimum grip. A new fresh tyre never has as much grip as one where the outer number has been scrubbed.

20. ### Kevin Amankwah

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Then bring it up with the game creators because that's how it's handled in game.