Tyre compounds

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

At 20º ambient temp, medium tyres are useless since they can't reach optimum temperature doesn't matter how hard you push.

And at 36º ambient temp, soft tyres are useless since they overheat doesn't matter how smooth you drive.

Is the ambient temperature the only parameter real teams use to choose which tyre they will use?

Because in this game, it seems to be the only parameter.

Is the temperature difference between soft and medium tyres realistic in this sim?

I tought the main difference between compounds were the duration of the tyres, and not temperatures.

And that real teams took the race length as the main parameter.

 

[Kek700]

@Bruno Iwanczuk
i do apologise, as you have constantly refered to F1 i was under the strange illusion thats what we were talking about.

 

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

@Bruno Iwanczuk
i do apologise, as you have constantly refered to F1 i was under the strange illusion thats what we were talking about.

I was, but if a soft tyre doesn't overheat in a F1 car under a certain condition it should't do in a GT3 as well i suppose. Then i took F1 cars as a reference.

 

[Kek700]

A gt3 is at least double the weight and more , also a much higher C of G,

 

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

A gt3 is at least double the weight and more , also a much higher C of G,

Oh, i was wrong then.

Also a F1 generates more downforce than a GT3.

Anyway i should have taken a GT3 as a referece.

 

[Cote Dazur]

And that real teams took the race length as the main parameter.

Where did you read that?
The so called softness of a tire is always subject to his operation temperature which is in relation to air pressure which will regulate tire temperature as will also air and track temperature which are usually closely correlated.
What team wanted is optimum relation between grip and durability. Of course depending on race length or pit regulation. All thing being equal a softer compound will ware faster than a harder compound. The colder the track the longer the soft compound will last. An over heated hard compound will wear faster than a cool running soft compound.
In AC, presssure settings will get you grip as long as you stay in a safe temperature which is more or less dictated by track temperature. Wear will eventually affect grip.
AC tire model is develop for a wide range of cars so cannot be expected to be equally good at simulating all tire types. Overall it is pretty good at simulating tire behaviour.
A much narrower spectrum SIM like ACC will/is much closer at mimicking GT3 Blancpain tire behavior and settings.
Making generic comparison will get you nowhere.
All sim tackle the subject slightly differently, none has the best answer for all tire type, ACC is probably the first and only that has a chance to get very close.
Overall as long as we all drive the same tires we should be able to compete and take advantage of our tires to be competitive Just like in real racing.

 

[RasmusP]

Overall it is pretty good at simulating tire behaviour.

This is probably the most important thing here. It's good at simulating the behavior. Not so great at being full on realistic as a whole package.
It drives very well and scrubbing/drifting etc have a nice realistic impact on the tyres. It's not great when doing things like "in reality with this Temperature and that car, this compound with these pressures and that car will be the same like in real life".
Or in short: the driving is awesome and pretty realistic, the rest like setup etc : not so great.
The alternative would be the F1 series games, which simulates just the F1 compounds. It will probably give you the "real life data comparison" but still drive like crap

 

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

Where did you read that?
The so called softness of a tire is always subject to his operation temperature which is in relation to air pressure which will regulate tire temperature as will also air and track temperature which are usually closely correlated.
What team wanted is optimum relation between grip and durability. Of course depending on race length or pit regulation. All thing being equal a softer compound will ware faster than a harder compound. The colder the track the longer the soft compound will last. An over heated hard compound will wear faster than a cool running soft compound.
In AC, presssure settings will get you grip as long as you stay in a safe temperature which is more or less dictated by track temperature. Wear will eventually affect grip.
AC tire model is develop for a wide range of cars so cannot be expected to be equally good at simulating all tire types. Overall it is pretty good at simulating tire behaviour.
A much narrower spectrum SIM like ACC will/is much closer at mimicking GT3 Blancpain tire behavior and settings.
Making generic comparison will get you nowhere.
All sim tackle the subject slightly differently, none has the best answer for all tire type, ACC is probably the first and only that has a chance to get very close.
Overall as long as we all drive the same tires we should be able to compete and take advantage of our tires to be competitive Just like in real racing.

I didn't read it. I tought overheat rates were not soo different between compounds, and that they choose tyres according only to how much they want it to last, and not according to ambient temperatures as we have to do in Assetto Corsa. Because In AC the overheat rates are too different between compounds, then it doesn't matter how much you need it to last, if you don't choose the right compound it will stay completely blue or completely red ruinning your grip.

 

[Cote Dazur]

@RasmusP I like that all I really have to worry about in AC is choose the compound and then get the best grip by adjusting pressure as this just like when I do track days. Expect I only have one compound LOL, but all I really control is the pressure as per the local experts recommendation LOL.
So more than close enough for me.
Still I am looking forward in ACC to get closer to reality as it is what I expect from a SIM focusing on a specific serie. I don’t think I am going to be desappointed

 

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

@RasmusP I like that all I really have to worry about in AC is choose the compound and then get the best grip by adjusting pressure as this just like when I do track days. Expect I only have one compound LOL, but all I really control is the pressure as per the local experts recommendation LOL.
So more than close enough for me.
Still I am looking forward in ACC to get closer to reality as it is what I expect from a SIM focusing on a specific serie. I don’t think I am going to be desappointed

But isnt't tyre pressure used to regulate only middle tyre temp?

 

[RasmusP]

But isnt't tyre pressure used to regulate only middle tyre temp?

Yes and no. If you deflate it enough it will become hotter overall! Due to deforming, heat is generated. That's beyond "middle temp" though. Way below!
But you'll also lose stiffness and control. You trade better temps for a soft, wobbling, smearing rubber.
Sadly that's where ac is lacking. For AC you always have the most grip when at optimum pressure. You can't really use toe or pressure to have a big difference regarding temperatures
I also think cold tyres are simulated in a good way but an overheated rear tyre making you spin instantly is a bit weird imo!
I would think blistering etc would happen before that...

 

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

Yes and no. If you deflate it enough it will become hotter overall! Due to deforming, heat is generated. That's beyond "middle temp" though. Way below!
But you'll also lose stiffness and control. You trade better temps for a soft, wobbling, smearing rubber.
Sadly that's where ac is lacking. For AC you always have the most grip when at optimum pressure. You can't really use toe or pressure to have a big difference regarding temperatures
I also think cold tyres are simulated in a good way but an overheated rear tyre making you spin instantly is a bit weird imo!
I would think blistering etc would happen before that...

Default GT3 pressure is 16. If you raise it you get colder tyre temps. I tried with maximum pressure and soft tyres went completely blue at a 36c day. Altough the car was completely unstable.

Project Cars 2 also simulates very low grip with overheated tyres, resulting in spins.

 

[RasmusP]

Default GT3 pressure is 16. If you raise it you get colder tyre temps. I tried with maximum pressure and soft tyres went completely blue at a 36c day. Altough the car was completely unstable.

Project Cars 2 also simulates very low grip with overheated tyres, resulting in spins.

What I meant: you can't control the temps in a way that you will be faster. Sure, you can influence the temps but you will 99% sure be slower with it.

 

[Kek700]

The disciplin i was attached to, used super softs slicks, without warming blankets, so the slick had
to work straight away. Providing a lot stiction immediately , but with no warning of its transition
from stiction to friction especially with the cars low weight and low centre of gravity
aware off.

Just re-read, and I forgot to actually mention the point of the above, from the real world.
Softer the rubber the less temperature becomes important initially, Very soft tyres grip amazingly
well even when cold. I realize this is not exactly applicable to AC, as we have pre heated tyres;
As i only drive Gt3. The first lap always seems tricky from your pit stop in Gt3.
Am i correct in assuming AC simulates new tyre bedding in. Or is it simply the tyre tread
temperature stabilisng that i am feeling. Or the fact i am settling in after being inactive behind the
wheel for 30 seconds.

 

[RasmusP]

Just re-read, and I forgot to actually mention the point of the above, from the real world.
Softer the rubber the less temperature becomes important initially, Very soft tyres grip amazingly
well even when cold. I realize this is not exactly applicable to AC, as we have pre heated tyres;
As i only drive Gt3. The first lap always seems tricky from your pit stop in Gt3.
Am i correct in assuming AC simulates new tyre bedding in. Or is it simply the tyre tread
temperature stabilisng that i am feeling. Or the fact i am settling in after being inactive behind the
wheel for 30 seconds.

When you use sidekick and switch it to show you the tyre wear in % (it's stretched a lot as 12% are stretched to 0-100% by sidekick), you will see that fresh gt3 tyres are only at something like 93%. Not sure about the actual number and soft/med/hard are different!
When you drive them they will get up to 100% before starting to go down again.
That's why with the gt3 you're the fastest over one lap when you do a slow outlap, then during the last turns scrub the fronts to heat them up and then start the flying lap. Rears will heat up on the straight.
That way you start at 100% grip! If you run the "hot lap" mode where you start 2 turns or something before start/finish you will be slower over one lap because you actually start with lower grip levels!

 

[Kek700]

Bugger, i had noticed that on side kick and always assumed it was a software glitch, so i
always ignored it.
Thanks for that @RasmusP ,i have again learned something, not only new but also very useful.

 

[Majuh]

F1 tires are fundamentally different from all other race car tires, so there is no point in comparing them.

F1 teams always use the softest compound available in Q3.

 

[RobertR1]

But isnt't tyre pressure used to regulate only middle tyre temp?

You should stick to either discussing tire behavior in game or in real life. There is a difference and it only widens the deeper you go.

On track days and even most local club racing level, we just pick the compound we want and adjust tire pressure based on conditions and alignment settings. It’s more of a “run what you bring” approach.

As you move up the stack to national series and beyond, you have adjustable anti roll bar positions, rebound and damping, ballast, ride height and aero is adjustable depending on the car and setup options for that series.

When you don’t have a whole crew there doing telemetry and recommendations the first priority becomes getting a good temperature spread across the tire and that will also tell you how effective your alignment is performing for your pace.

The amount of adjustablility in video games is pretty unreasonable especially due to the fact that a tire pressure change requires as much time and effort as a gearing change.

The best thing to learn from sims is car control dynamics and developing the muscle memory for smooth inputs. The rest is going to vary in range depending on the car, track, conditions, driver style, sim engine preferences and limitations and so on.

 

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

F1 tires are fundamentally different from all other race car tires, so there is no point in comparing them.

F1 teams always use the softest compound available in Q3.

No, the cars are different, the tires are the same, it's rubber.

And if you look at qualifying videos they use soft and super soft tyres in almost all of them, and not ultra and hyper soft. Sure to avoid overheating since there is no point to use a harder compound in qualifying to do only few laps.

 

[RasmusP]

No, the cars are different, the tires are the same, it's rubber.

And if you look at qualifying videos they use soft and super soft tyres in almost all of them, and not ultra and hyper soft. Sure to avoid overheating since there is no point to use a harder compound in qualifying to do only few laps.

Rubber is rubber but look at the ratio between rims and tyre surface. Heat transmission, deformation, thickness of the rubber that will be driven on (way thicker) is completely different!
F1 tyres just shred away (all those marbles on the outsides) while gt3 tyres have only "one surface layer" in comparison.

 

[Bruno Iwanczuk]

Rubber is rubber but look at the ratio between rims and tyre surface. Heat transmission, deformation, thickness of the rubber that will be driven on (way thicker) is completely different!
F1 tyres just shred away (all those marbles on the outsides) while gt3 tyres have only "one surface layer" in comparison.

I know it's different but what i mean is, the 3 rules are the same.

Softer = More grip, more heat, less durability, and vice-versa.

Therefore i was not comparing 2 "completely" different things when i compared a F1 to a GT3.