Featured TT Isle of Man Sidecars DLC Released

Discussion in 'TT Isle of Man - The Game' started by Paul Jeffrey, May 26, 2018.

  1. Paul Jeffrey

    Paul Jeffrey
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    Arriving on console and PC versions of TT Isle of Man: The Game - Sidecars are here, and it's free (well until 22nd June at least)…


    The highly anticipated new expansion to TTIoM: The Game has arrived! Adding the world of professional sidecar racing to the official Isle of Man TT Motorcycle road racing game, sidecars are an exciting and sadly often overlooked form of bike racing, and serve to bring some very unique and engaging content to this very solid bike racing title.

    Arriving on all platforms yesterday, the initial release will be totally free to owners of the existing game, however it should be noted that the content will become a paid DLC offering after June 22nd, so if you are looking to try your hand at the three wheeled bike variety you need to act soon unless you want to pay for it!

    As well as the new DLC, Bigben Entertainment and Kylotonn Racing Games have also deployed a further update, titled build 1.104, of which the PC patch notes can be seen below:
    • Added sidecar DLC content
    • Fixed several collision glitches on the Snaefell Mountain track
    • Fixed small undesired elevations on several fantasy tracks (for example, old Blair Forest and Hertfordshire)
    • Fixed a crash which occurred when changing sections on the Snaefell Mountain Course
    • Updated fmod version to fix a sound bug which could cause random crashes
    TT Isle of Man: The Game is available now for Xbox One and PlayStation 4 and PC.

    TT Isle of Man Sidecars.jpg

    For more news, more discussion and to interaction with your fellow bike racing fans then head over to our TT Isle of Man - The Game sub forum.

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    Have you tried the sidecar DLC yet? What are your impressions? Let us know in the comments section below!
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
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  2. Ayem22

    Ayem22
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    the physics are awfull.
    based on WRC 6 engine (https://i.imgur.com/9VF4R1M.png)
    this game is based on a 4 wheel game engine, and after today's discussions in here on how the bike feels like it's handling like a car, I decided it was time to do some digging and put my modding head back on and opened up some game files .................................... could someone please explain to me why the handling files for John McGuinness's bike has settings for ..........Front Left Wheel ........... Front Right Wheel .................... Rear Left Wheel ...............and Rear Right Wheel ................. in a Motorcycle racing game ? please tell me.


    https://i.imgur.com/jllVGVm.png

    (from steam)
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
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  3. Max Imum

    Max Imum

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    A reason which could explain why the rear tire is sliding (under steering) on corner deceleration
     
  4. Andy_J

    Andy_J
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    As good as the game is for us TT fans, yes the physics are based on car physics. And Kylotonns car physics at that. It is what it is.
    But forgetting the sidecars, the bikes do work well. If you ride them with care and feel like you would a real bike. As a biker myself with track experience I still ride the bikes in the game with a fear of crashing anyway hence my lap times are slower than these super fast no fear hot lappers we have in the overall timings. Yesterday I jumped on the cbr600 (Bruce Ansty's) for the first time in a couple of weeks and did a 4 lap TT race without falling off once. I finished with an average lap time of 20 mins which is slow but boy was it fun and it was super realistic with a lot of sweating in the end. What I am saying is if you just play this game pushing 120%, the physics will bite you eventually. So I play it at 80% just like the real riders in real life ride the circuit.
     
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  5. Nico_Sause

    Nico_Sause

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    Check out GP bikes if you do not already know it.
     
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  6. girlracerTracey

    girlracerTracey

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    To be honest what you are saying is hardly revelatory is it? I think we all strongly suspected this was the case.. I personally didn't think for a moment that Kylotonn had made a new motorcycle game engine from scratch..

    The question always was how well could Kylotonn's WRC game engine and physics model be adapted for use over the IOM TT Mountain course? At least that was the question that kept occurring to me anyway in the run-up to the game being released..

    Is the handling of the bikes in its entirety awful? As bad as say motogp 9/10 by Capcom?

    I would say no. Far from it. Concerns (some might justifiably say serious concerns) re. the behaviour of the rear end when it comes round on you on the brakes or when you overstep the "limit" generally notwithstanding.. For me until the rear let's go the general "feel" and "poise" of the bikes round the bumpy IOM TT course feels, for a mainstream game, pretty good. Direction changes at speed and the feel you get from the bike sweeping through the high speed sections of the course feel convincing. The bikes feel "alive" for me in this respect. So for me that's a plus. In this particular respect it reminds me of the feel racing round the mini IOM TT course on the old but venerable gp500 game by Melbourne House. But yes things in the physics in TT IOM are missing if you make comparisons to gp500. "Low-sides" on a cold or worn front tyre heading out of Douglas from a standing start being one on them..

    So for sure the handling in TT IOM is not perfect. In an ideal world Kylotonn would have built a new motorcycle game engine from scratch. But they didn't. It's not a perfect world..

    Meanwhile we have Milestone. A company who clearly over the last few years are deliberately and knowingly, seemingly, dumbing down their motorcycle racing games (in terms of their adopted physics parameters and desired handling model) to suit younger players (aka "kids") and "mainstream" casual gamers alike. Milestone have not advanced their physics model they have regressed it to the point that many experienced online players are walking away from their latest games, eSports notwithstanding. Milestone do not even have (so far) a working tyre wear/grip algorithm and still have a "lean angle limiter" built into their core physics engine. So no "low-sides" unless on the front brake and no tyre management in either of their games..

    Not good either really is it?

    Do I wish that Milestone had made the IOM TT game using the same "vanilla" physics and handling model as RIDE 2? Tbh personally I'm rather glad they didn't.. as I think I would have got bored of it pretty quickly..

    Everyone to their own. But it has to be said TT IOM is something different.

    As Andy said race it more like you would approach it it in real life from fork / helmet cam and see a crash as a DNF or a trip to Noble's hospital and it begins to make more sense. Race it like an arcade game and it doesn't..

    That's the alternative opinion on this one for what it's worth anyway. ;)
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
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  7. MarkR

    MarkR

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    IOM TT remains a truly challenging and enjoyable game. The sidecars are much more difficult to control than I expected. It is truly satisfying to get a good clean lap of the TT circuit and requires a level of concentration above even the Nordshcleife which is my favourite car sim track by far.

    I can't say how realistic to a real bike it is but I know it makes for a fine hardcore game. I've enjoyed this bike game so much I might well pick up Moto GP 18 after a good few years break from the series.
     
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  8. VirtuaIceMan

    VirtuaIceMan

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    Regarding the car physics, I think they're going to add more DLC to the game yet, including Subaru Impreza speed run car.
     
  9. CC

    CC
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    I believe that is how they generate the physics each side of the tires has its own rules and slip angle, its not 1 single surface as the tread is quite complex with angles so they divide it equal each side to generate slip, not really correct either way, not when comparing to say rf2 physics engine which is really complex,
    and again with games if they create rules inside physics it takes 10000,s of lines of code, they understand which code works under loads for physics so again its really common to see studios with multiple games released to have referenced items from previous titles, they are simply reusing the values they know work, nothing to really be worried about in my opinion its just settings that give values the name of the settings means nothing to how the value reacts.
     
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  10. Lazarou

    Lazarou
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    Sidecars are drivable if you just pretend it's a car. Then it kind of works. Still very tricky though.
     
  11. Nico_Sause

    Nico_Sause

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    btw .. motorcycle play are rare - so this game should be playable for everyone (a mix of "sim" and arcade) makes fun.. A good motorcycle since SBK (which has been a challenge in its time - and too difficult / complex for the masses)
     
  12. Tylda

    Tylda

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    In MotoGP17 you have tire wear and try to compare Ride 1 physics to MotoGP17 physycs. MotoGP have a lot better physics. This engine had a lot of upgrades and I think they made a new physic engine for MotoGP18 so don't say that Milestone stays in one place.
     
  13. Andy_J

    Andy_J
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    You have disagreed with my posts, you have disagreed with girlracertracey's posts. Which part of what we have said do you disagree with? Try and answer subjectively and without being a childish fanboy.:rolleyes:
    Thank you.
     
  14. Ayem22

    Ayem22
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    i prefer ths simple good physic from Milestone than the wrong awfull physics scratched from cars from Kylotonn.
    And we all know that you will buy Mgp18 and ride 3 and you will forget TT game.
     
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  15. girlracerTracey

    girlracerTracey

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    I am not not saying Milestone and their motogp games has been standing still in one place. Myself and many others, including many experienced online racers, are saying the motogp series has actually been heading backwards.. In terms of the level of challenge provided by the physics and handling model. That's why so many experienced and very fast players have walked away from the series following the release of motogp 17. That's why so many of the active and successful online motogp racing leagues have folded. I know players who have raced online for years on the SBK and motogp games who have turned their back on Milestone and are now racing on four wheels on Assetto Corsa and Project CARS. It's ironic..when we were racing on motogp15 we were hoping that Milestone would improve and enhance the physics and handling. Head it more in the direction of a "simulation". Instead Milestone moved it in the opposite direction.. ABS on the front brake on a motogp bike? In motogp 17 you have it.. Grippy grass and off track terrain? Yep, it's there too..with no option to turn it off. etc. etc. and so forth.

    Tyre wear? Since motogp13 Milestone have yet to successfully conjure up a convincing and realistic tyre wear / grip algorithm . Same goes for motogp17.

    It's a very sad story all in all and the fear is that with motogp 18 it is quite possible that Milestone may choose to make it even more "accessible" to mainstream and inexperienced "casual" players. Who knows?

    This is the reason I think for the popularity of Dyego's and Giovane's physics mods. These mods make both motogp17 and RIDE 2 challenging and interesting again.

    Here's a quote from a guy who is very fast on these games and has won online championships:

    "It’s a shame that eSports came along otherwise I think we’d be playing the old games. I still enjoy the buzz of riding a bike, but it’s stunning how dull it is now I’m used to Super Standard Dumbed down GP17. 18 looks even dumber. Everything nowadays is done for the casuals, everything is about money... it’s disappointing. Yesterday I set a good time around Austin on GP17, I might upload the lap, but the stupid thing about it is the lap itself isn’t that great, all the time came from me "dropping" the front a few times, it’s pathetic."

    In my honest opinion what Milestone's motogp and RIDE series needs is a higher level "Simulation" physics mode that would test the skills of the more experienced players.
     
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  16. Tylda

    Tylda

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    Sadly we don't have something like rFactor or Asetto Corsa for motorbikes but at least we have something. I think that 18 will be more simulation than arcade. They scanned all tracks and rider movement looks a lot more realistic than in 17.
     
  17. Tylda

    Tylda

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    I disagreed with your and girlracer first comment because you still think that TT physics are good even when you know that isn't and I just disagree with word that "bike feels alive". For me is no way near alive bike but something beetwen soapbox cart and bus. Your argument that "you must drive on 80% instead 120%" is nothing more than justifying bad physics for me. And no, I'm not fanboy. I can see bad sides and good sides of both TT, Ride or MotoGP games. I can see that TT game have pretty nice recreated tracks and bikes but have bad physics. I can see that Ride or MotoGP games have arcadey physics but at least this games tries to recreate feeling of riding a real bike. You don't see bad sides of TT game but only good and you still think thats the best bike game ever.
    If you still think that I'm fanboy of Milestone games and hater of TT game you are really wrong. I'm just mad that Kylotonn just wreck all my hopes for good Isle of Man game.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
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  18. Lidoptics

    Lidoptics

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    After spending time with the game, I came up with the exact same conclusion, and I'm glad you found proof. It's actually disgusting.

    There is almost zero rider feedback. If you are familiar with GPbikes, it reminds me a lot of riding on a modded track where everything feels temperamental. Just a total loss of control, but still more control than TT. There is NO indication that I could be braking too hard. The back end doesn't come out, or lift when under heavy front brake pressure. You just slide horizontally into the wall.

    I've never had to fool around with control setting so much to accomplish absolutely nothing.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
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  19. VirtuaIceMan

    VirtuaIceMan

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    Sidecars on the PS2 Isle of Man games were tricky too, despite the bike handling being quite praised.
     
  20. girlracerTracey

    girlracerTracey

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    I'm not arguing against you in this regard. That's why in my opinion the simple and straightforward solution is to introduce a higher level physics mode into the motogp and RIDE games. To compliment the existing "Standard", "Semi-Pro" and "Pro" physics modes in the game. A simple addition to the data.mix file .

    The argument from this side of the trenches is basically if private amateur modders (Dyego and Giovane by way of example) can create very impressive "simulation" leaning physics upgrades to both games then why the heck can't the development team at Milestone do the same thing? And by doing so keep a wider spectrum of people happy? That would allow long term "enthusiasts" to race competitively online with a decent and meaningful challenge in what they are doing..

    A simple solution I would suggest. ;)
     
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