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TS-PC Racer FFB Feel

Jivesauce

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Sorry to start another boring FFB thread, but I've searched and not found anything that works for me so far. I would like to get R3E going so I could potentially join some of the new US races here occasionally, but I installed it the other day and I'm really struggling to get the FFB to where I have any idea what's happening with the car at all. It feels very light and numb under most circumstances, then suddenly very heavy and abrupt as I start to slide or crash.

The settings I'm using are from a couple threads I found here on RD and on the official forums as well, but they are all from 2017, so maybe something has changed since then? I'm not sure what's going on, but I always hear R3E described as having great FFB feel so I'm sure it's something I'm doing wrong. Any help would be appreciated!
 

Jivesauce

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Ok so I jumped in again tonight to try again, and when I turned it on it ignored my previous profile and said "Thrustmaster TS-PC Racer profile found" and loaded some sort of default profile that feels about 10x better than the custom settings I found on the forums. I don't know why it didn't load this initially or why it decided to ignore my already created controls this time, but I'm glad it did!

I still have a really persistent vibration/rattling that I wouldn't mind getting rid of, but there are so many controls I have no idea which one to mess with and I'm scared of messing it up. I just ran a few laps at Laguna Seca in the BMW 635CSI and the sounds in this game are fantastic!
 

Yetch

GooseCreature
May 21, 2010
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You're probably feeling the fake settings. You can bin the canned settings (the 4 at the bottom) I do keep 15% on the kerb setting, else it feels weird. The four with the kerb settings are there for a bit of added tweaking but like I said other than the kerb, I give them a miss.
 
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Jivesauce

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You're probably feeling the fake settings. You can bin the canned settings (the 4 at the bottom) I do keep 15% on the kerb setting, else it feels weird. The four with the kerb settings are there for a bit of added tweaking but like I said other than the kerb, I give them a miss.
Perfect, thanks, I'll give that a try tonight!

Also, I just want you to know, every time I see your name I still think about how badly I punted you in my first race of the Mini Challenge this year at the Red Bull Ring :D
 
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RasmusP

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Had a ts-pc for a week and am now with a CSW 2.5. I created a flowchart of Raceroom's FFB back then with my G27.
My settings should feel good with your ts-pc. You might need to increase the "Steering Force Intensity" to get a bit more slight clipping but increasing the overall force.
The flowchart is from 2017 but nothing changed there. Only the settings itself changed a little but not how they are compiled into the final ffb.
Important to note: the "Force Feedback Intensity" sits after the clipping meter so it's basically identical to lowering the ffb in your wheel software. If clipping happens before, you'll just get a softer, still clipping ffb!




Here are my settings:

General force feedback settings:
Force Feedback: on
Inverted Force Feedback: on (should be off for the ts-pc!)
Gamepad Rumble: off
Force Feedback Intensity: 100
Smoothing: 0 (creates a notch around the center, just like steering rack...)
Force Feedback Spring: 0 (artificial centering spring)
Force Feedback Damper: 0 (artificial dampening)

Steering force settings:
Steering Force Intensity: 40 (you might want to run 50-70 with the ts-pc)
Force Feedback Minimum Force: 1% (it fills the slight "emptiness" when going straight)
Understeer: 35-40 (dialed this in a looong time comparing constantly with AC, ACC, rF2)
Vertical Load: 65
Lateral Force: 100 (I took this as my starting point!)
Steering Rack: 0 (everything other than 0 creates a 'notch' when passing center position)

Force Feedback Effect Settings:
Slip Effect: 10 (I like the rumble when being on the edge, locking up etc)
Engine Vibrations: 1 (more than this is awful)
Kerb Vibrations: 1 (Kerbs are 3D, there's no reason to increase this but I don't want to kill it completely)
Shift Effect: 7 (I kinda like this)

Now if you look at the flow chart you might notice that you could also put Vertical Load and Lateral Force to 33 and 50 but double the Steering Force Intensity.
And this is absolutely correct!

I mixed the settings very carefully, compared constantly to AC, ACC and rF2 to get them all as similar as possible.
Raceroom lacks some of the detailed rumble in comparison. It just doesn't have as many road details but the feel for the grip, kerbs etc are very well done! :)
 

Brandon Wright

I may not be fast, but I'm wide!
Nov 14, 2014
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1,861
I still have a really persistent vibration/rattling that I wouldn't mind getting rid of, but there are so many controls I have no idea which one to mess with and I'm scared of messing it up. I just ran a few laps at Laguna Seca in the BMW 635CSI and the sounds in this game are fantastic!
My guess would be the engine vibration in the canned FFB effects that Yetch was talking about. Set that to 0, it won't affect how your FFB feels other than getting rid of the vibration. The ABS setting will also vibrate your wheel when you're heavy on the brakes. Those four settings at the bottom will not affect how your FFB feels in the turns and stuff, they only control vibrations, so you can adjust those without fear of messing anything up.
 

Jivesauce

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Apr 7, 2018
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Had a ts-pc for a week and am now with a CSW 2.5. I created a flowchart of Raceroom's FFB back then with my G27.
My settings should feel good with your ts-pc. You might need to increase the "Steering Force Intensity" to get a bit more slight clipping but increasing the overall force.
The flowchart is from 2017 but nothing changed there. Only the settings itself changed a little but not how they are compiled into the final ffb.
Important to note: the "Force Feedback Intensity" sits after the clipping meter so it's basically identical to lowering the ffb in your wheel software. If clipping happens before, you'll just get a softer, still clipping ffb!




Here are my settings:

General force feedback settings:
Force Feedback: on
Inverted Force Feedback: on (should be off for the ts-pc!)
Gamepad Rumble: off
Force Feedback Intensity: 100
Smoothing: 0 (creates a notch around the center, just like steering rack...)
Force Feedback Spring: 0 (artificial centering spring)
Force Feedback Damper: 0 (artificial dampening)

Steering force settings:
Steering Force Intensity: 40 (you might want to run 50-70 with the ts-pc)
Force Feedback Minimum Force: 1% (it fills the slight "emptiness" when going straight)
Understeer: 35-40 (dialed this in a looong time comparing constantly with AC, ACC, rF2)
Vertical Load: 65
Lateral Force: 100 (I took this as my starting point!)
Steering Rack: 0 (everything other than 0 creates a 'notch' when passing center position)

Force Feedback Effect Settings:
Slip Effect: 10 (I like the rumble when being on the edge, locking up etc)
Engine Vibrations: 1 (more than this is awful)
Kerb Vibrations: 1 (Kerbs are 3D, there's no reason to increase this but I don't want to kill it completely)
Shift Effect: 7 (I kinda like this)

Now if you look at the flow chart you might notice that you could also put Vertical Load and Lateral Force to 33 and 50 but double the Steering Force Intensity.
And this is absolutely correct!

I mixed the settings very carefully, compared constantly to AC, ACC and rF2 to get them all as similar as possible.
Raceroom lacks some of the detailed rumble in comparison. It just doesn't have as many road details but the feel for the grip, kerbs etc are very well done! :)
Thanks Rasmus, helpful as always! I'll try your settings tonight.

My guess would be the engine vibration in the canned FFB effects that Yetch was talking about. Set that to 0, it won't affect how your FFB feels other than getting rid of the vibration. The ABS setting will also vibrate your wheel when you're heavy on the brakes. Those four settings at the bottom will not affect how your FFB feels in the turns and stuff, they only control vibrations, so you can adjust those without fear of messing anything up.
Ahhh that makes sense, I did notice that it seemed to be related to speed somehow, I should have looked more carefully at the settings. Thanks, I'll see if I can get it dialed in now!
 

Yetch

GooseCreature
May 21, 2010
581
452
Perfect, thanks, I'll give that a try tonight!

Also, I just want you to know, every time I see your name I still think about how badly I punted you in my first race of the Mini Challenge this year at the Red Bull Ring :D
Still having weekly physio. :roflmao:
 

LagunaSeca

100RPM
May 8, 2018
100
66
One thing to point out that R3E's FFB in-game settings do not include everything. If you want more options, you can go to
\Documents\My Games\SimBin\RaceRoom Racing Experience\UserData\ControlSet
Some settings to highlight
ffb slip freq multiplier="0.1" // Slip effect frequency. 1.0f = 1 cycle per wheel rev
FFB rumble strip freq mult="0.1" // Rumble stip frequency multiplier 1.0 = one rumble per wheel rev.

This is the reason I thought R3E sucked when I first bought the game. You expect the steering wheel to rumble when you drive on curbs or you lock up your wheels but I could not feel anything. That is because of the fact those rumble frequency as been reduced to 10%. Set it above 1, like 2 or 3 something, makes a HUGE difference. I don't want to get into the argument that which game is the most realistic one, but under these settings I can indeed feel the car.

Like a programming languagee, the words after "//" are comments and do not play any roles other than explanation. Play with those files and tweak a little bit. This game has a lot of potentials.

PS: R3E support my clubsport invert's rumble function NATIVELY. Huge plus. Don't give up the game. (Although it rumbles all the time no matter I lock up or not, foot massage is always welcome:roflmao:)
 
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Martin Fiala

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You expect the steering wheel to rumble when you drive on curbs or you lock up your wheels but I could not feel anything. That is because of the fact those rumble frequency as been reduced to 10%. Set it above 1, like 2 or 3 something, makes a HUGE difference.
Kerb effects come from the physics engine, so you feel exactly what you should, *and* there's also an added slider for fake rumble effect on kerbs. If you still don't feel anything, I'd suggest you have some kind of issue not related to the game itself - it offers plenty of kerb feel and means of its adjustments.

Also bear in mind that some kerbs are actually just flat, so should not really produce any FFB effects.
 
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LagunaSeca

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May 8, 2018
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Kerb effects come from the physics engine, so you feel exactly what you should, *and* there's also an added slider for fake rumble effect on kerbs. If you still don't feel anything, I'd suggest you have some kind of issue not related to the game itself - it offers plenty of kerb feel and means of its adjustments.

Also bear in mind that some kerbs are actually just flat, so should not really produce any FFB effects.
I adjusted this based on some real life experience. I got some distant memory of driving on laguna seca (that is why I choose this id) and those blue/white curbs indeed gave me rumble while driving on it. (meaning they are not flat) Before I modify the file I feel little about those curbs so I just mess around until it approximately matched my feeling in real life. However I did not drive the same car so my calibration must be off by some.

There are few curbs that offer good feelings, like the outside curb out of T1 and T3 at road america.

As for the slip effect, I believe changing the freq helps as well. Locking up the wheel will let the tires "jump" on the gravel, causing your steering wheel to shake. That is what I felt when I locked up, so I adjust according to my experience. However, that might just be personal preference/ biased experience.
 
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Jivesauce

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Sorry it took me longer than I promised to report back here, but I used the settings from @RasmusP as well as the advice from everyone else and combined them to get some new settings for my wheel and it feels so much better; you are all life-savers. I really just went with Rasmus' settings then tweaked the strength and a few of the canned effects to my personal preferences and I was good to go.

For future generations that might find this thread I will say that under Rasmus' settings, he says he uses 40 steering force intensity, but you may want to bump it to 50-70 with a TS-PC Racer; I tried it at 70 and there was severe clipping, so you probably don't want to go that high. I kept testing and ended up all the way back down to 40, but if you are someone that likes a heavier wheel you could run 50 with no problem. I suspect you could creep up toward 60, but you would want to do some gradual bumping up and testing with the FFB meter.

Thanks again to everyone for your help, you've saved this game for me!
 

dwdh

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Jul 1, 2019
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@Jivesauce

If you don't mind - could you post your settings? I just got my Thrustmaster TS-PC Racer (with F1 Ferrari Wheel) and I'm dying to get a halfway decent FFB setup.
 
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Jivesauce

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@Jivesauce

If you don't mind - could you post your settings? I just got my Thrustmaster TS-PC Racer (with F1 Ferrari Wheel) and I'm dying to get a halfway decent FFB setup.
Of course! Are you looking for only R3E settings specifically?

For R3E I am using a very slightly modified version of what Rasmus posted above, but I will post my exact settings next time I can get on my rig (probably Monday evening). What he posted is very good though, I just made a couple tweaks for personal preference.
 

Ave_golf

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Jan 13, 2020
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Had a ts-pc for a week and am now with a CSW 2.5. I created a flowchart of Raceroom's FFB back then with my G27.
My settings should feel good with your ts-pc. You might need to increase the "Steering Force Intensity" to get a bit more slight clipping but increasing the overall force.
The flowchart is from 2017 but nothing changed there. Only the settings itself changed a little but not how they are compiled into the final ffb.
Important to note: the "Force Feedback Intensity" sits after the clipping meter so it's basically identical to lowering the ffb in your wheel software. If clipping happens before, you'll just get a softer, still clipping ffb!

Sorry , but i need your help to understand it

Then, the force feedback intensity is the key to up or down the clipping?
I mean, the FF intensity put the line over the clipping, if you up it, the amount of "Ffb" will increased right?
Then, the clipping would be stronger if i set force feedback intensity to 50 and stering force to 100, than i set ff intensity to 100 and steering force to 50( even if, in this last case the total amount of force feedback was higher)


I used to do a wrong thing all this time


I setted the FF intensity lower(cause i think it was good for not having clipping) and set the steering force to 100 and sometimes i had some clipping

But testing like your diagram says, i noticed, if i up the Ff intensity, the line of clipping goes up again, then i could use more ffb without clipping


Sorry for my bad english but it's a thing that is too difficult to explain in another language


Thanks
 

RasmusP

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Then, the force feedback intensity is the key to up or down the clipping?
I mean, the FF intensity put the line over the clipping, if you up it, the amount of "Ffb" will increased right?
Then, the clipping would be stronger if i set force feedback intensity to 50 and stering force to 100, than i set ff intensity to 100 and steering force to 50( even if, in this last case the total amount of force feedback was higher)
Exactly, yes! :)

To use different words:
Force Feedback Intensity has absolutely NO influence on clipping! It sits AFTER the clipping happens.
If you want to have less clipping: reduce Steering Force Intensity (and vibrations/shift effect).

Raising or reducing Force Feedback Intensity only decreases the strength of the already clipping (or not clipping) signal. 100 is "open", "no reduction".

However like I said clipping is not a bad thing in general. If you have a strong wheel, sausage kerbs can really hurt your hands! Also if you have too much difference between low forces this happens:
Driving almost straight = not feeling anything
Intense Cornering = barely able to steer because the wheel is so heavy

It's called "dynamic". With Force Feedback Intensity and Steering Force Intensity you can adjust the dynamic.

Steering Force Intensity = 100 + Force Feedback Intensity = 50 ->> low dynamic. Sausage kerbs or too intense cornering will clip and get limited in strength.

Steering Force Intensity = 50 + Force Feedback Intensity = 100 ->> high dynamic. Corners will feel the same as above but if you hit a sausage kerbs your arms will hurt.

Don't worry about your English. I understood everything without a problem :)
 
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Ave_golf

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Exactly, yes! :)

To use different words:
Force Feedback Intensity has absolutely NO influence on clipping! It sits AFTER the clipping happens.
If you want to have less clipping: reduce Steering Force Intensity (and vibrations/shift effect).

Raising or reducing Force Feedback Intensity only decreases the strength of the already clipping (or not clipping) signal. 100 is "open", "no reduction".

However like I said clipping is not a bad thing in general. If you have a strong wheel, sausage kerbs can really hurt your hands! Also if you have too much difference between low forces this happens:
Driving almost straight = not feeling anything
Intense Cornering = barely able to steer because the wheel is so heavy

It's called "dynamic". With Force Feedback Intensity and Steering Force Intensity you can adjust the dynamic.

Steering Force Intensity = 100 + Force Feedback Intensity = 50 ->> low dynamic. Sausage kerbs or too intense cornering will clip and get limited in strength.

Steering Force Intensity = 50 + Force Feedback Intensity = 100 ->> high dynamic. Corners will feel the same as above but if you hit a sausage kerbs your arms will hurt.

Don't worry about your English. I understood everything without a problem :)
You cannot imagine how much i thank you!

I changed from the G920 to TS-PC then the total strenght is not a problem for me, i m used to drive with " powerless wheels" then i drove with 75%( on profiler) and 45% on raceroom and 100% steering force, the force from the steering was good for me but i found. A lot of clipping with DTM cars or all those cars with old physics and i didnt know why... But thank to you i know what was wrong!

Im gonna test all i learned from you and enjoy my new TS-PC

Once again! Thanks you for the explanation!
 
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RasmusP

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Thanks for the compliments! Feels really good to read something like this :)
then i drove with 75%( on profiler) and 45% on raceroom and 100% steering force, the force from the steering was good for me but i found. A lot of clipping with DTM cars or all those cars with old physics and i didnt know why.
The 75% on profiler are even worse. They work exactly like "force feedback intensity", but one step after it.
So what you had:
100% steering force intensity = clipping a lot

45% force Feedback intensity = lowering the strength of the already clipping signal by more than half

75% profiler = lowering the reduced + clipping signal by another 1/4

100*0.45*0.75 = 33.75%

The same overall strength without clipping:
33.75% steering force intensity
100% force feedback intensity
100% profiler

If you do this with your ts-pc, be careful when going over kerbs :p