Track Limits - FIA needs to get their sh** together

ajohncock

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Super frustrating. At Bahrain just now, Hamilton blatantly disregards the turn 4 track limits for most of the race. When Max passes him and goes just barely outside track limits on turn 4, he has to give the place back.

Super frustrating. Anyone else agree or am I wrong here?
 
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Charlie Lockwood

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Super frustrating. At Bahrain just now, Hamilton blatantly disregards the turn for track limits for most of the race. When Max passes him and goes just barely outside track limits on turn 4, he has to give the place back.

Super frustrating. Anyone else agree or am I wrong here?

You're obviously correct in that Hamilton got away with track limit infringements for over a third of the race.

The interesting thing is the stewards never insisted that Verstappen give the place back. The move could well have been legal, and probably was given that other drivers made the same move as Verstappen earlier in the race without any investigation.

Personally I think Verstappen should have held position, and would probably have been fine.
 
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ajohncock

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It would be one thing if they had all been breaching track limits, but Max was playing by the rules the whole race. This gave both the Mercs an advantage. Then when he does it once, he gets screwed.

I do think Red Bull made a mistake letting him through immediately. They should have at least waited till a better time or were forced.
I do believe though that over radio Horner told Max that they were instructed about it by race direction. Never saw an independent announcement though, just what Horner said.

The announcers seemed a bit frustrated by it all too.
 

mcmoha

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David O'Reilly

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I hope you saw Llando Norris interview after the race.
He said that for him it was perfectly clear that they could exceed the track limits at T4 exit but they were not allowed to gain an advantage.
Llando himself yielded a potential pass earlier in the same spot.
The Stewards made a very clear direction that in qualifying they would be very strict but in the race more lenient so long as an advantage wasn't gained.
This is not unheard of. I have been in races where the same thing was announced (Donnington MX5 Supercup 2020).
In qualifying the drivers have 2 hot laps per session. Low fuel, perfect tyres and are on the limit. If they exceed T4 limits it's to gain the 2 tenths. Especially with Q pace so close amongst top 15.
In the race with high fuel loads, worn tyres, heat of battle, dirty air it's harder for drivers to strictly observe that limit and harder for stewards to watch out for it. So the call was made to all the teams that it would not be so strictly enforced.

Cue Red Bull complaint about Hamilton and the Stewards got a bit stricter and he had to watch his line more.
Hamilton defended very well on his worn tyres. He has done it before here vs Rosberg.
It resulted in Verstappen having to complete his overtake with all 4 wheels off the racing surface at the very corner his team had cried foul on Hamilton. This was clearly gaining an advantage. His line was a product of his entry speed, had he planned to follow the rules his own team had reminded the stewards about he would have had to be slower. His total off-track excursion was a part of his overtake.
Therefore he gained an advantage (like leading the race vs running in 2nd place). The outcome of the move was the definition of gaining advantage.
So while it may be an emotional moment for Verstappen fans it was in my view a totally reasonable outcome.
Whether by waiting and using his shot later in the lap at say the DRS zone at exit of T10 or the pit straight he would have succeeded we will never know.
It was great racing though.
Here is Llando
 
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RedBull48

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I don't understand what is so hard about having a consistent track limit from practice through race. Should be simple really, if you go over T4 curb 4 times you get a penalty... all there is to it. Unfortunately Massi likes to make a mess out of seemingly simple tasks.
 
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Mcorp

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Lando also sayed Max was well in front of Hamilton so there was no overtaking outside turn 4 and yes he was right........he went earl on the throttle that why he got off track. So he should have not given that place back. But i really don't mind i just love the race.........and i am dutch and love Max's way of driving.
 

Antony Snook

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I don´t like street circits becuse they cause pilleups and that leads to saftey car and that eats race laps. You can burn 100 miles of the 200 mille distance playing the pace car game and that is wrong as it is not racing. You will be there all night if you only counted race laps. That said it will enforce track limits if there is a wall or barrier close to track. as it will destroy your car. And anyone who tangles with you. So basically its glorified banger racing. Costing teams billions of dollars in repair.
 

RedBull48

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In purpose built circuits you can heavily deter drivers with gravel traps but it seems to be getting phased out from most tracks. Adding massive paved runoffs does nothing to inhibit this.
 
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Appie Kuipers

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Lando also sayed Max was well in front of Hamilton so there was no overtaking outside turn 4 and yes he was right........he went earl on the throttle that why he got off track. So he should have not given that place back. But i really don't mind i just love the race.........and i am dutch and love Max's way of driving.
Warning, You may not be a Max fan at this forum:laugh:
 

McGherkin

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Going off track around the outside, unlike conventionally cutting a corner, has as many disadvantages as it does advantages. You’re trading a slightly better cornering speed for a longer route, picking up marbles, dust and potentially punctures from debris. It’s very difficult to say that a driver has gained a clear and lasting advantage. Both Max and Lewis were doing it extensively throughout the race though and both were told to stop. They did. Arguably if you’re giving penalties to Hamilton for that corner then you’d ha

No matter how you paint it, gaining a position is a clear and lasting advantage.

I was really disappointed because it was a fantastic battle but it died completely after that. Max’ll get his chance though.

What I will say is that both Max and Lewis had no complaints about the way things went, but that isn’t enough to stop people complaining. I can only imagine what the outcry would be if Lewis had swept around the outside, would people still be crying out that he had a well won place taken off him? LOL no.
 

RedBull48

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Max is my favorite driver personally and I don't have any major issues with the outcome of the race. I believe Merc just had a better strategy on the day and Lewis showed why he is 7 times champ. All of that aside my major issue is the FIA not being able to implement clear cut policies which leave no area for interpretation. Now instead of talking about the great racing we saw everyone is going back and fourth on technicalities. Surely this isn't the last we will see of strange FIA policies throughout the season lets just hope that does not define it.
 

Mcorp

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What I will say is that both Max and Lewis had no complaints about the way things went, but that isn’t enough to stop people complaining. I can only imagine what the outcry would be if Lewis had swept around the outside, would people still be crying out that he had a well won place taken off him? LOL no.

it's not about the complaining at all, i do agree Lewis should not have a penalty but in my opinion Max was past Lewis and than went to fast on the throttle that's why he got off track not while passing Lewis. and a few good drivers and ex drivers agree with this........like Lando and Brundel.

 
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McGherkin

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Being ahead only matters if Lewis had deliberately run him wide so he’d have to back off, i.e. the various Albon incidents. But as your footage shows, Max simply entered the corner far too quickly, and rather than scrub that speed off to avoid leaving the track, which would have let Hamilton through, he simply carried on off the edge of the track. Had there been a barrier there he would have either had to brake or crash, either way Hamilton would have got the place back.
 

Mcorp

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Being ahead only matters if Lewis had deliberately run him wide so he’d have to back off, i.e. the various Albon incidents. But as your footage shows, Max simply entered the corner far too quickly, and rather than scrub that speed off to avoid leaving the track, which would have let Hamilton through, he simply carried on off the edge of the track. Had there been a barrier there he would have either had to brake or crash, either way Hamilton would have got the place back.
you must be blind than........he was within the lines and ahead of lewis...as he was infront and he got to soon on the throttle than the car oversteerd and he had to made a correction and than ended off track.
 

Fat-Alfie

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I think you're wrong - sorry. He only got past by entering the corner too quickly, trying to carry too much speed and thus running wide and off the track.

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Even Red Bull admit the overtake was illegal. The issue is why wasn't Hamilton penalised for running wide at the same corner earlier in the race?
 

Ben Lee

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I guess the argument is a little muddied as the place they were running wide I think is part of the longer circuit, however the solution in my eyes in the majority of these kind of cases is to line the track with at least 2 metres of grass / gravel, then if you want 300M of tarmac after it, then so be it, personally I hate tarmac run off and its done nothing for my love of "modern motorsport". Thankfully most of the UK tracks haven't been castrated in this manner (yet).
 

Sasha Jednak

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I still think that Max went wider to leave more space for driver on inside (that is talking about apex). As he was for sure scared of driving close to someone who "killed" his teammate's race 2 times in same situation. :rolleyes:
After apex, it was said by far more qualified people than me, so I don't want to comment on that. Anyway, it is long gone, Merc is ahead in both champions, time to move forward. As we will not get anything from this, FIA and rules will still be gray and it will go in someones favor (usually to dominant side as it was always like that).
 
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