Upcoming Events

Weekly BMW races on Simracing.GP Weekly BMW races on Simracing.GP Other regular AC events on Simracing.GP Weekly GT3 Sprint Races on Simracing.GP Weekly GT4 Sprint Races on Simracing.GP Daily WTCR races on Simracing.GP

The what pisses you off the most about rF2 thread

GuitarTech

Premium
So, by popular request, here it is. It's going to be a long post, but please bear with me.
As the title says, I'd like to talk about all the niggling "quirks and features" that are present in rF2, and whether they should be fixed or not. There are so many of them I mostly can't recall them all at any one time, but I'll mention the ones that really wind me up personally, the ones that scream in my face every time I use rF2.
I don't want to get into the replacement UI, that is a subject all of it's own which does not belong in this thread.
No, I'm talking about the things that have been there since the beginning of time, or at least since S397 took over in 2016. Listed, in no particular order:
Why does the video settings menu revert back to generic every time I close the game? Why do I have to select "RTX3080", (in my case), every time I start the game? Is that really so hard to change? (I'm not being provocative here, it's a genuine question) In fact that could apply to all the things I'm going to mention here, why havn't they been changed years ago?
The Full Course Yellow bug. Surely, in an application that is more sim than game, and one that is heavily biased towards endurance racing, is this bug in any way realistic?
The missing realistic transmission model. Does the fact that you can completely ignore the clutch ('cos it doesn't really work ) really fit into a realistic sim?
Why can't you change cars or tracks without having to back to the "desktop" for want of a better word?
Why can't you just do it in the garage? It would save literally hours in loading times.
Talking about loading times: why are the loading times so glacial? If you only have to do it once, it's bad enough, but if you're popping in and out constantly trying out different settings, you can spend half the evening just sitting there like a jerk with the VR headset on watching the track load for the fifteenth time.
And don't get me started on the Workshop system. Every time you re-install, afterwards you have to go into the Workshop and scroll through nearly 600 addons, and untick all the ones you don't want because you never use them.
A lot of the stuff in there looks like something out of the 90's, and the majority of it will never be updated.
Why can't they change it so that you only get the content you had in the old install, and not everything?
It works with the DLC you've bought, why not with all the other content?
If that's not possible, why can't you just get a vanilla install with only the DLC content, and then you can go into the Workshop and select the content that you DO want?
I don't re-install that often, thank goodness, but every time I do have to re-install, I get that sinking feeling, oh no, here we go again. It's a real ball-ache to be honest.
As I recall, there is some kind of workaround (another fix for something that shouldn't be broken in the first place), but I've forgotten it, and can't find it again due to rF2s almost complete lack of documentation.
And the AI, the never-ending story of the AI. Why is it so crap? Why does somebody punt me off the track every second race, or even in practice, whatever settings I use? And if by a miracle I find a setting that works, it only works for that one track. I have to screw around for hours and hours for every track, and the settings don't take without having to come out, and then load the track again. See loading times.
S397 have achieved an enormous amount over the past four years or so, credit where credit's due.
The change to DX11, VR capability ( although the loading screen could be better: why do I see the rF2 logo in front of me ( that would be perfectly adaquate ), but also to the left, to the right, and over my head too. And why doesn't the VR centre button work during the loading sequence? Why do I have to turn my head to the right till it gets onto the home page, before the VR centre button works?
The industry standard FF, the driving physics, the tyre model, the immersion factor are all things that keep me coming back to rF2 time and time again. There are other sims and driving games that don't have all of rF2s "quirks and features", but none where I really have the feeling that I'm there in the cockpit.
If you've managed to get to the end without falling asleep, thank you. I'll be interested to hear what other people think, and I have no problem with being corrected if I've written something that isn't true.
It isn't my intention to provoke, these are just my personal thoughts about things that have always really annoyed me over the years, because they're all things that just shouldn't be there, and things that should have been fixed years ago. I mean it's bad enough making coding mistakes like these, which must have been apparent during the beta test phase, but then to just ignore them, and leave them in for years and years just boggles my mind. I mean why, just why?

Edited once for content.
 
Last edited:

rand777

Premium
I drive a sim for how it drives. I don't choose a sim based on the number of mouse clicks needed. I choose a sim based upon how it simulates racing. I don't choose titles that play music or look pretty BEFORE I EVER GET TO THE RACIN'. The old UI was fine for it's time, but S397 realized they could not press forward with the plan they hope to implement with the old UI.

This UI is already 4 development years old and still missing vital parts, in THAT area I will agree. It prevents some aspects of the racin' to be appreciated. But even if this was all we ever got from the UI, I could really care less. The sim begins and ends when I mash the throttle. Big Hooey if I have to scroll a little, or click exit twice.

S397 may never get all they apparently want out of the UI. Anything that adds to the racin' is a bonus, more setup options, more incar adjustments, more data screens, more tire improvements, more multiplayer stability coding sound immersion and on and on. Anything that is just the wrong color scheme or no mouse sounds over menu items, or taking 30 seconds to load is just....as the movie says...waiting. If S397 could continue to improve the racing without the web based UI, then this new UI would not interest me one bit. But instead of hiding for two years under the rock of the old UI, many users could have researched the quirks of the new UI and gotten on with it.

I understand, I came from a generation that had to wait over 20 minutes for a cassette program to load a 4mb game into an Atari. Or use a cassette loader for a Commodore C-64. Floppy disks, swapping up to 10 or 15 floppies just to load a single program. Having to have a disk(s) to load the OS before even thinking about getting a game ready. Having to hand create 6 different MS-dos loading programs to stuff as much of a program in High memory so games by Origin or Microprose would even begin to load. So being an old fart, not much of this UI is any sort of a drag to me. They have problems sometimes like the exploding graphics, that can be a real bit of heartburn, they can have team drivers lose thier FFB settings or car setups...but I suspect those problems existed with the old UI as well. Fiddle all they want with the UI, AS LONG AS IT CONTRIBUTES TO RACIN'. But worry about looks or how many micro-seconds it takes for a screen to fade out and in....well...

For me the issue is more about fundamental usability rather than just a longer load time or more mouse clicks. I got several C++ Runtime Exceptions which caused the app to crash to the desktop (which never happened once on the old UI on my machine) and there are sundry features that now either no longer work or are now buggy and can also cause the app to crash.

For me the lack of stability and features are a hard stop. The fact that it's a major step backwards in design wise usability also is just the icing on the cake. That said, it's still the best handling sim for me, otherwise I wouldn't bother to post here in the hope that the devs will hear, if enough users have the same issues, and address the underlying issues.
 

Durge Driven

Premium
Never had a C++ runtime error or crashes in fact in none of my sims :O_o:

Straight after fresh OS install this updated in MAY 2021 lol

If you have more than one version off any C++ in programs and features you are barking up the wrong tree ;)

soooo.. fresh OS this pack and none of your existing steam sims will run a C++
Not a single one
 
Last edited:
1. The artificial unitelligence.
2. The non user friendly process of editing AI names and skins.
Yep agree on both points.
To add on the 'non user friendly process':
What i just don't understand: They spend all that time on for example building an indycar mod (dw 12). And then build Indianapolis. Both as official content. That is at a minimum been weeks and weeks of work (and more likely months and months).

You spend all that time, and then you throw it online and have the users find out themselve how to actually make it raceworthy in terms of settings. i mean there is a freaking superspeedway setting in the player.json file, but how should a casual player know that they should change that in the player file? There is no documentation, there is no instruction, nothing. Sure the diehard rfactor2 players who do a bit of changing stuff will know about this, but casual players for sure won't know.

If you spend months on building that official content, then why not spend a few hours on creating a new json file with the advised settings to maximize racing ovals that users can use when installing this official content?

i can understand that 397 has limited time and can't do everything. But i am very surprised that they bring out official stuff and just leave low hanging fruit to maximize player enjoyment to waste. I get the impression that there is nobody within 397 who looks at stuff from a 'customer experience' viewpoint.
 
Last edited:

Gevatter

The James May of Simracing
Premium
And the point of this reply is?
He can't bear the thought of people not loving rF2 like he does. The fact that new players don't have the same commitment to trawl through .ini files for hidden settings somehow really irks him.

He can't handle that so he tries to troll, yet he is still to start his "What I love about rF2" thread where people can go fawn over the game.
 
Last edited:

GuitarTech

Premium
He can't bear the thought of people not loving rF2 like he does. The fact that new players don't have the same commitment to trawl through .ini files for hidden settings somehow really irks him.

He can't handle that so he tries to troll, yet he is still to start his "What I love about rF2" thread where people can go fawn over the game.
Ah, Ok. Thanks for the heads up :)
 
For me it's basically the unfulfilled potential. S397 needs to hire some extra coders to get their development pace up to speed. The new UI took ages to develop and still isn't up to standards, it's slow and buggy and nowhere near current good UX design practices. But for me, UI is not really an important aspect. I know the new UI will enable them to build upon, and introduce the competition system, but for a working competition ecosystem you need a thriving community, and a lot of people are put off by the messy game experience rF2 offers.

There are unsolved bugs that have now been in the game for years, on all fronts: stability, graphics, physics, ...

If you want to be a fast driver in the game, you have to set the tires to their lowest pressure possible, and you can compensate for running unrealistically low aero at the rear by detaching the rear sway bar.
Apart from a small update to the tire model and introducing chassis flex there's been literally no updates on the physics side. We've been waiting for the "it's on our to do list" drivetrain modeling for years now.

To S397's defense, what ISI left behind was probably an unfinished mess of spaghetti code. In beginning I had great hopes with the DX11 update and some other long awaited fixes and additions, but S397 have now been working on it for almost 5 years and the development pace seems slower than ever. New cars and tracks, yes, but the actual game coding and real updates have dried up.

For me 2021, will be a make or break year for them. I hope that the Motorsport Games deal will give them some breathing room on the financial side to hire some new people to improve the core aspects of the game. So much potential to be materialized...
 

GuitarTech

Premium
For me it's basically the unfulfilled potential. S397 needs to hire some extra coders to get their development pace up to speed. The new UI took ages to develop and still isn't up to standards, it's slow and buggy and nowhere near current good UX design practices. But for me, UI is not really an important aspect. I know the new UI will enable them to build upon, and introduce the competition system, but for a working competition ecosystem you need a thriving community, and a lot of people are put off by the messy game experience rF2 offers.

There are unsolved bugs that have now been in the game for years, on all fronts: stability, graphics, physics, ...

If you want to be a fast driver in the game, you have to set the tires to their lowest pressure possible, and you can compensate for running unrealistically low aero at the rear by detaching the rear sway bar.
Apart from a small update to the tire model and introducing chassis flex there's been literally no updates on the physics side. We've been waiting for the "it's on our to do list" drivetrain modeling for years now.

To S397's defense, what ISI left behind was probably an unfinished mess of spaghetti code. In beginning I had great hopes with the DX11 update and some other long awaited fixes and additions, but S397 have now been working on it for almost 5 years and the development pace seems slower than ever. New cars and tracks, yes, but the actual game coding and real updates have dried up.

For me 2021, will be a make or break year for them. I hope that the Motorsport Games deal will give them some breathing room on the financial side to hire some new people to improve the core aspects of the game. So much potential to be materialized...
The excuse that they took over a mess of spaghetti code from ISI got old a long time ago. They have been bumbling around for over 5 years now and, apart from the conversion to DX11, have achieved essentially nothing. None of the long, long list of legacy bugs have been fixed, the Workshop system is a chaotic mess, the AI ist a bad joke, there are some tracks that‘re undriveable due to getting brutally shoved off the track within the first lap, and their masterpiece, the UI, leaves me speechless. Over four years for that? Sweet baby jesus, in that time other developers write a whole new game.
Maybe, now that they‘ve been taken over, an rF3 wlill rise like phoenix out of the ashes, but I‘m not holding my breath.
You can find me over at AMS2 until Studio397 maybe some day pulls their collective fingers out, RIP rF2.....
 
Besides all that've already been mentioned in the thread I fail to see who rf2 is for. Can't do sp races due to horrible AI issues. Can't do mp races if you're not one of the elites and want to deal with occasionally having your race ruined by the game.
 
Is it just me or if you modify player.json, you now lose ALL your in-game settings? Had no such problems before, and it definitely pissed me up. Another thing is the competition system - whenever I give it a shot, I find myself in races with 3-4 people, pretty boring. I am close to abandoning rf2 altogether, but driving feel is still the best imo.
 

jimortality

Premium
I thought I would install rf2 after a few years. I've now managed to input my name which was a job in itself. I get pass that challenge and now it's downloading a zillion packages it's not really friendly so far but things can only get better right?
 

Shovas

Premium
I thought I would install rf2 after a few years. I've now managed to input my name which was a job in itself. I get pass that challenge and now it's downloading a zillion packages it's not really friendly so far but things can only get better right?
Onboarding for new users is probably one of the most problematic things to rF2 gaining traction.

I did a clean reinstall at one point and completely forgot about all the tiny little things you have to remember to get your rF2 install back to how it was. Stuff like outside-the-game video configuration, json tweaks for my wheel to reverse wheel direction, which video options I liked, controller assignments, etc.

Streamlining that whole process would be a big help.
 
What annoys me the most are the missed opportunities from both ISI and S397. History is largely repeating itself.

The virtual Le Mans debacles pre COVID-19 and during COVID-19 should have refocused S397's efforts to fix both legacy and current issues. Alas that's not been the case.

With rF2, I have a UI that took 4 years to leave the beta phase that doesn't remember by monitor resolution, I have simple stuff like the wrong information for some paid-for DLC cars (e.g. Porsche 911 engine is a V6 according to S397) and missing details such as the working lock-up lights in said Porsche GT3 variants.

The AI have devolved from class leading to moronic crash inducing drones and the former glory of rF2's dynamic track surface modelling has been bettered by SMS with their Madness Engine and improved significantly by Reiza in AMS 2.

The Steam workshop remains a disorganised s**tshow.

Further, I don't want to download every S397 piece of content when installing rF2; let me choose exactly what I want from a list. Having to remove 30+GB of old, outdated legacy items that should be archived is a chore simply because rF2 decided to auto-subscribe me to everything in the Steam workshop that's tagged S397.

On the plus side, the FFB in rF2 remains fantastic & with the right car and track combination, the driving in rF2 can be compelling. S397 have done a great job with their laser scanned tracks and the more recent updates to older tracks.

I own every piece of paid for DLC for rF2 however I'm not buying anything else in the foreseeable future. The priorities at S397 and Motorsport Games are on e-Sports and providing expertise from S397 in other games, not fixing rF2's core issues.

As a backer of AMS 2 dating back some 5 years ago, in AMS 2 I'm getting most the good aspects I got from rF2 with constant updates & improvements from Reiza.

S397 & Motorsport Games need to rethink their strategy with rF2 as the already small player won't hang around forever waiting for promises to materialise when there are other sims to play and spend money on.​
 
Last edited:

GuitarTech

Premium
What annoys me the most are the missed opportunities from both ISI and S397. History is largely repeating itself.

The virtual Le Mans debacles pre COVID-19 and during COVID-19 should have refocused S397's efforts to fix both legacy and current issues. Alas that's not been the case.

With rF2, I have a UI that took 4 years to leave the beta phase that doesn't remember by monitor resolution, I have simple stuff like the wrong information for some paid-for DLC cars (e.g. Porsche 911 engine is a V6 according to S397) and missing details such as the working lock-up lights in said Porsche GT3 variants.

The AI have devolved from class leading to moronic crash inducing drones and the former glory of rF2's dynamic track surface modelling has been bettered by SMS with their Madness Engine and improved significantly by Reiza in AMS 2.

The Steam workshop remains a disorganised s**tshow.

Further, I don't want to download every S397 piece of content when installing rF2; let me choose exactly what I want from a list. Having to remove 30+GB download of old, outdated legacy items that should be archived is a chore simply because rF2 decided to auto-subscribe everything.

On the plus side, the FFB in rF2 remains fantastic & with the right car and track combination, the driving in rF2 can be compelling. S397 have done a great job with their laser scanned tracks and the more recent updates to older tracks.

I own every piece of paid for DLC for rF2 however I'm not buying anything else in the foreseeable future. The priorities at S397 and Motorsport Games are on e-Sports and providing expertise from S397 in other games, not fixing rF2's core issues.

As a backer of AMS 2 dating back some 5 years ago, in AMS 2 I'm getting most the good aspects I got from rF2 with constant updates & improvements from Reiza.

S397 & Motorsport Games need to rethink their strategy with rF2 as the already small player won't hang around forever waiting for promises to materialise when there are other sims to play and spend money on.​
You have hit the nail on the head, and I couldn't agree more with what you've said.
It's the frustration of knowing what rF2 could've been with a competent and focused development team: instead S397 has wasted 5 years that could, and should, have been utilised to drag rF2 into the 21st century.
I'm through with them, my patience has run out.
AMS2 has become my goto sim, and if the new FF in R3E fulfills the promise that they have announced, that will be a good alternative. Happy days :)
 

jimortality

Premium
Well I did get driving eventually even though the game didn't recognise my T300 and the driving does feel good but when I try to exit the game I get a long list of credits which I don't seem to be able to skip then it froze up so had to restart pc. I'm sure it's good but the ui and options leave a little to be desired. I now have all the main sims installed and I like all of them but some more than others. Will I keep playing RF2? maybe but it's not one of my go to sims purely on this starting experience, I don't need drama in my leisure time.
 
Top