The SimFeedback-AC DIY Motion Simulator thread

sjb266 · Sep 17, 2018

Hey guys. Thought I’d create a thread for those taking the plunge into this brilliant DIY project..
I will be starting mine soon and I know there are others thinking about it.. so feel free to share your knowledge and experiences so we can all enjoy this platform to its full potential. A huge thanks to the developers who have really knocked this one out of the park!

Website: https://opensfx.com/2019/02/20/welcome-to-our-new-site/

Github: https://github.com/SimFeedback/SimFeedback-AC-Servo/wiki

For all the internals for the actuator contact Amy - skye@ntl-bearing.com
She can supply everything you need. Just remind her you want the ends of the shafts chamfered and make sure she sends the right sized ball screw - we have had a couple of issues reported. She is very helpful though and the cost is pretty good.

Huge thanks to @RowanH for writing a comprehensive user guide which can be accessed here - https://www.rowanhick.com/sfx-100-build-and-running-guide

In addition, @anton_Chez has contributed a list of post numbers for some of the important settings etc..
Post #320 SFX-100 thread
Post #327 SFX-100 thread for Discord correlation
Post #339 SFX-100 thread
Post #418 SFX-100 thread
Post #424 SFX-100 thread
Post #439 SFX-100 thread
Post #449 SFX-100 thread
Post #517 SFX-100 thread
Post #554 SFX-100 thread
Post #580 SFX-100 thread
Post #826 SFX-100 thread
Post #837 SFX-100 thread
Post #864,866,867,868,870,887,889,897 SFX-100 thread
Post #911,914 SFX-100 thread
Post #988,992,998 SFX-100 thread
Post #1147 SFX-100 thread
Post #1492 SFX-100 thread
Post #1511,1517 SFX-100 thread

I will try to keep this page updated with links to source the parts in other parts of the world. Just post whatever links you have and i'll add them here.

Please note: Not all the parts listed below are essential for the project. For the essential parts refer to the original shopping list.

Australia:

Thanks to @AussieSim for the following links:

10A power lead(s) * 4
https://www.jaycar.com.au/2m-black-mains-extension-lead/p/PS4152

Top quality wire stripper
https://sydneytools.com.au/product/boxo-cutws205-multifunction-wire-stripper

RCD/safety switch power block
https://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-4-outlet-heavy-duty-portable-safety-switch_p4420028

WD-40 lithium grease for the ball screws
https://www.bunnings.com.au/wd-40-specialist-300g-high-performance-white-lithium-grease_p6100408

Vibration pads
https://www.bunnings.com.au/whites-on-site-100-x-12-5mm-rubber-anti-vibration-mat-4-pack_p3961547

WD-40 Dry PTFE spray for the slider (free shipping)
https://au.rs-online.com/mobile/p/lubricants/7577134/

Arduino Leonardo (free shipping + frequent 10-15% off discount)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/a000057/arduino-corporation

DB25 cables * 4 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/ak401-2/assmann-wsw-components-inc

PETG * 3 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/petg17bk1/mg-chemicals

WAGO-like connectors to avoid a breadboard (perhaps use genuine ones if you are doing 240V AC)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32906719488.html

D-Sub breakout boards * 4
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32297675967.html

3D printer Creality Ender-3 Pro
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32918302452.html

Wires from Arduino to D-Sub breakout (remove black plastic from the WAGO end)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887680826.html

Crimp connectors for AC wire leads
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32813550981.html

jabtronic · Jul 14, 2019

RowanH said:
1- Add the ground wire from he pedals control board to the pedals themselves (should have come with the pedals)
2- Move the HE Pedals USB plug onto a different "segment" than your SFX USB controller, ie if you've got your SFX in the external USB hub, then put the HE pedals into the rear mobo panel.

Both of those should do the trick. There's a step 3, but we'll see if you need to go that far.

Thanks,
Just to follow up on my issue, the new ground wire from circuit board to the pedals didn't fix it alone. But when I put a ferrite bead onto the USB cable going to the pedals the issue stopped.
Since I got a few ferrite beads in the pack I've put them on the OSW and the Arduino usb cables also.

Mr Latte · Jul 14, 2019

anton_Chez said:
I think it's pretty safe to say that there's not too much going on with the tactile if it's barely been mentioned in over 200 builds. It's not that people aren't aware that tactile indeed has benefits in its use. Myself as well as others have dedicated tactile setups that we very much use every time we take a car out, sometimes even without the motion. It's that the SFX-100 software and hardware don't do tactile as well as anything used solely for tactile. I did try it and found it to be a little overwhelming, in the sense that I didn't want to overdrive my motors with both high power motion AND a lot of high frequency (comparatively) vibrating.

In other words, for someone as serious as Mr Latte, tactile from the SFX may as well not even be there.

You get gain, hz options and an RPM scale for engine. That's pretty much it. No layers, no individual channel support, a very basic shaker output to a dedicated unit, and very little in the way of actual effects that the tactile is used for.

So, long story short, if you have ZERO tactile hardware or interest in adding it, sure, go for it. Use SFB for your tactile, perhaps with not too much gain to balance out both motion and tactile output from the same motor. If you have even a single decent unit (BK Mini or higher) then there is no reason to not use Shake It instead. Absolutely none.

Okay this helps and thanks to others also for commenting.
It seems having no layers and no individual channel support, then limits the potential to offer only mono based effects?

So guys, are you telling me that L/R based curbs have the same vibrational output on all 4 corners? Even if only two left wheels are extended/raised and the two right is depressed/lowered. Assuming what you get is general mono energy through the whole chassis (from all 4). Errrr....not a stereo positional vibrational felt energy tactile sensation. One that is splitting the power to each unit based on the telemetry values of the suspension for each wheel?

Scenario:
Left wheels on high curb, outputting data values with the energy @ 100/45 ratio in power balance between the left and right-hand sides. This then output and transferred in proper stereo for the seat/pedals with the tactile L/R accordingly via purposely installed/positional units. Only then the energy moves freely within the seat or pedals.

Stereo effects are amongst my favorite in tactile, be it to feel the positional feedback with lateral steering input on cornering. For very detailed bumps and curbs, also feeling the increasing lateral G forces in the appropriate side of the seat and in some supported titles for positional wheel slip too. These all in wonderful positional stereo are very immersive even on a static rig and certainly something I want to incorporate with my motion.

Anton confirmed for me that we can feel small exciters on an SFX rig and that's important for the effects I am creating as they utilise multiple body regions for key specific detailing and also positional effects. Another factor is that on some motion systems it's hard to feel the tactile as the motion energy can drown out what the tactile is offering. This is also why tactile installed closer to the user's body regions and using well-isolated platforms is the best approach than on 4 corners or its energy free to go all over the rig. Yet it is also important that the effects themselves are well made and suited to their roles with sensations that feel good.

Specialist Build - Own Desires - High Benchmark
For me I want to feel the rig move, sure of course but also back this up with accurately positionable tactile sensations. Stereo effects placement is something my own build plans highly incorporate. To the point, even the build is constructed of L/R steel tubing and using multiple tactile for each side of seat/pedals for different effects. Yet I have also experimented in recent months with using multi exciters in a seat for highlighting and building positional based effects with great results.

As someone who has dabbled in tactile for over 12 years let me make this clear.
Bodyzones are key to taking tactile immersion further, this I can assure anyone and as the exciters better handle high frequencies (than typical units) they bring more detailing for specific effects. We can combine these exciters with other units as well if desired. This is all possible thanks to Simhub in recent months which has greatly expanded in controls/features to what we can do with tactile.

With the abilities now in Simhub my own continued work with effects creation is bringing more creativity for much, much more lively engines and gearshifts than any tactile solution has brought before.

AntonisX · Jul 14, 2019

Hi guys.First post here. I have built my diy sfx100 project and I m super happy with it. I have donated for simfeedback (3 of July) but havent received any email for expert mode and discord channel. Since yesterday i cannot enjoy dirt rally due to a restart of my pc and loss of the original profile of saxxon66. can you help me? The name is Antonis and my email is xenopoulos3@gmail.com
Thanks!

AntonisX · Jul 14, 2019

HoiHman said:
Iracing, HPD-ARX-01 on the Nordschleife is my "showcase profile" whenever somebody comes over the try out the SFX100.

Another SFX100 user Fabio posted this video a while ago on the Iracing forum

My response to his video was:

His response was

Also..........Rally is just awesome with the SFX100. Try my Dirt 4 profile. The physics might be of, but rally is so much fun.

Both profiles are uploaded on the discord channel.

I wish people would share more profiles in general so we can all learn from each other and enjoy this platform even more.

Hello there! I am having a hard time right now for the profiles on simfeedback... Yesterday my pc restarted and i lost the dirt rally profile. how can i restore it? I ve made the donation from 3 July and yet haven't received any codes for discord channel. can you please help me out. I m a rally fun and i havent got a game to play with my sfx100 !

saxxon66 · Jul 14, 2019

AntonisX said:
Hi guys.First post here. I have built my diy sfx100 project and I m super happy with it. I have donated for simfeedback (3 of July) but havent received any email for expert mode and discord channel. Since yesterday i cannot enjoy dirt rally due to a restart of my pc and loss of the original profile of saxxon66. can you help me? The name is Antonis and my email is xenopoulos3@gmail.com
Thanks!

Sorry Antonis, it's my fault, I overlooked your donation.
You got mail.

Wmacky · Jul 14, 2019

About Tactile -

I currently have no tactile gear, but would like to compliment my soon to be finished SFX100 rig with a basic setup. I'm not keen on a expensive / complicated setup such as MR Latte is doing. I'm thinking a couple stereo rack mount amps and 4 good transducers.

I have been hoping that by the time my rig was finishing completion, there would be more discussion on integrating such a basic 4 channel setup with the motion provided by the SFX100, but strangely interest seems lacking? I absolute want traducer generated revs as to limit high wear using the actuators for that job. I'm also interested in any "pseudo " G force effects it could add, as a g seat is not in the cards currently.

IT looks like Shake is currently the software of choice, but it appears it doesn't support X-plane or DCS. This could be a deal breaker for me as I'm building a dual race / flight convertible cockpit. I wonder if they plan to add that support?

Furnace Inferno · Jul 14, 2019

Wmacky said:
About Tactile -

I currently have no tactile gear, but would like to compliment my soon to be finished SFX100 rig with a basic setup. I'm not keen on a expensive / complicated setup such as MR Latte is doing. I'm thinking a couple stereo rack mount amps and 4 good transducers.

I have been hoping that by the time my rig was finishing completion, there would be more discussion on integrating such a basic 4 channel setup with the motion provided by the SFX100, but strangely interest seems lacking? I absolute want traducer generated revs as to limit high wear using the actuators for that job. I'm also interested in any "pseudo " G force effects it could add, as a g seat is not in the cards currently.

IT looks like Shake is currently the software of choice, but it appears it doesn't support X-plane or DCS. This could be a deal breaker for me as I'm building a dual race / flight convertible cockpit. I wonder if they plan to add that support?

I think a lot of us still use transducers for RPM, it’s no different than for a static rig which is probably why nobody talks about it but you don’t need to have a transducer on each corner for that.

jv8 · Jul 14, 2019

I'm also interested in tactile setups with the SFX-100. I am waiting for a GS5 so I should be covered for surge/sway with the G-seat. The SFX does roll/pitch/heave. I have a single standard BK LFE which I could mount for RPM.

Beyond that, I'm interested in what can be done with tactile. Do you need the tactile transducer per corner if you are already getting roll/pitch cues with the SFX?

Also interested in software. Since I'm going to be running the GS5, I assumed I would just use SimVibe. Don't know how that compares to SimHub + Shake It or even SimFeedback mono RPM output.

Mr Latte · Jul 14, 2019

Wmacky said:
About Tactile -

I currently have no tactile gear, but would like to compliment my soon to be finished SFX100 rig with a basic setup. I'm not keen on a expensive / complicated setup such as MR Latte is doing. I'm thinking a couple stereo rack mount amps and 4 good transducers.

I have been hoping that by the time my rig was finishing completion, there would be more discussion on integrating such a basic 4 channel setup with the motion provided by the SFX100, but strangely interest seems lacking? I absolute want traducer generated revs as to limit high wear using the actuators for that job. I'm also interested in any "pseudo " G force effects it could add, as a g seat is not in the cards currently.

IT looks like Shake is currently the software of choice, but it appears it doesn't support X-plane or DCS. This could be a deal breaker for me as I'm building a dual race / flight convertible cockpit. I wonder if they plan to add that support?

Let me tell you something, for a few months I have been running a seat raised off the floor. All my main expensive tactile (that you refer to) are not being used as I have dismantled my old build to gradually work towards the new one.

Yet in this time I have experienced some of the best detailed tactile I have ever enjoyed by experimenting with a concept I wanted to try....

There is a misconception that large expensive tactile are always needed to get the best tactile. That its all about high wattage and with loads of power to shake the users rig like crazy.

What their benefits actually are, is the ability to make use of low frequencies and bring character to felt effects that small units cannot deliver. It can add a richness to many effects, especially with below 20Hz. Yet with their advantages can come disadvantages, BK units, in particular, are not that good with upper frequencies and high-level details.

What I can say for now, is that after a few months comparing different models of tactile exciters and testing various small tactile units. Finally discovering the optimal unit and with a concept, I will be sharing. A user can install (upto) 8x of THESE onto a seat.

Yes, super affordable $20 exciters placed on the seat for highlighting up to 4 different body zones.
After months experimenting and creating special effects for this configuration. With having had some requested features added to Simhub Bass Shaker (SBS). These enabling new creativity in the building of multizone effects. I would say with confidence, especially with new knowledge and ongoing testing being applied. I currently have experimental tactile effects that are on a new level of detail and immersion beyond what anyone on these forums is currently experiencing.

That may seem like me being bold but it is what it is

I have plenty of experience with tactile units and effects creation to know how good these new effects on this affordable multi-body zone concept are.

*Currently I am not sharing these experimental effects with anyone unless they adopt the same configuration. I want to ensure feedback from people is using the same hardware and installed in the appropriate way as my own seat. It's up to individuals to believe in the concept to help with effects creation. The effects being created need the same multizone installation to work properly.
So I decided that people can choose to either come onboard and support/follow or ignore and stick with what they already have.

diablo2112 · Jul 14, 2019

Making progress on my build. Still waiting on several 8020 parts to be delivered, but I have enough to get the basic frame layout together and mount the actuators. Been testing this on No Limits 2 (Roller Coaster Sim), and its working great. Don't have the parts for the wheel deck yet, so the Coaster isn't a bad title for some early tests.

I'm keeping the NLR v3 chair mover for now. Going to try heave, pitch, and roll on the SFX-100 and surge and sway on the chair. In No Limits 2, this works fabulously. Heave, in particular, is super fun in VR on the coaster sim.

C64 · Jul 14, 2019

Mr Latte said:
Let me tell you something, for a few months I have been running a seat raised off the floor. All my main expensive tactile (that you refer to) are not being used as I have dismantled my old build to gradually work towards the new one.

Yet in this time I have experienced some of the best detailed tactile I have ever enjoyed by experimenting with a concept I wanted to try....

There is a misconception that large expensive tactile are always needed to get the best tactile. That its all about high wattage and with loads of power to shake the users rig like crazy.

What their benefits actually are, is the ability to make use of low frequencies and bring character to felt effects that small units cannot deliver. It can add a richness to many effects, especially with below 20Hz. Yet with their advantages can come disadvantages, BK units, in particular, are not that good with upper frequencies and high-level details.

What I can say for now, is that after a few months comparing different models of tactile exciters and testing various small tactile units. Finally discovering the optimal unit and with a concept, I will be sharing. A user can install (upto) 8x of THESE onto a seat.

Yes, super affordable $20 exciters placed on the seat for highlighting up to 4 different body zones.
After months experimenting and creating special effects for this configuration. With having had some requested features added to Simhub Bass Shaker (SBS). These enabling new creativity in the building of multizone effects. I would say with confidence, especially with new knowledge and ongoing testing being applied. I currently have experimental tactile effects that are on a new level of detail and immersion beyond what anyone on these forums is currently experiencing.

That may seem like me being bold but it is what it is
I have plenty of experience with tactile units and effects creation to know how good these new effects on this affordable multi-body zone concept are.

*Currently I am not sharing these experimental effects with anyone unless they adopt the same configuration. I want to ensure feedback from people is using the same hardware and installed in the appropriate way as my own seat. It's up to individuals to believe in the concept to help with effects creation. The effects being created need the same multizone installation to work properly.
So I decided that people can choose to either come onboard and support/follow or ignore and stick with what they already have.

When you say the 8 exciters are placed on the “seat” ... do you mean your bucket seat or on various places around your rig?

Mr Latte · Jul 15, 2019

C64 said:
When you say the 8 exciters are placed on the “seat” ... do you mean your bucket seat or on various places around your rig?

These are for sticking direct on the seat or possibly on a GS5's back and bottom panels.
The point is making use of direct contact for improved detection. Then applying the usage of multiple body regions to place effects to specific channels. Lastly, these exciters also have much higher extended detailing, current test effects like RPM are using up to 150Hz. They go beyond this too but any higher and it becomes more noise than felt sensation.

Additional units can also be used and incorporated, my own build certainly will do so and make use of my larger BK and TST models.

However, the aim is to create like SFX a configuration and fixed hardware installation. That people can follow and then load profiles with pre-made and tested effects. So users can enjoy with no major hassle.

Effects are being made with several alternative versions so people can use whatever they prefer for different aspects.

"High RPM Detail" as one effect element for engines. I currently have 15 options in place to choose from as different feeling sensations for this single element. Users can select what they want or copy/paste specific layers to create their own profiles and combined effects. "Create Your Own Engine" is a feature that will let people select pre-made layers for:

Idle & Inertia
Low RPM
Mid RPM
High RPM
Max RPM

Wmacky · Jul 15, 2019

I'd like to hear more about the hardware specifics. With the lower wattage requirements, how are you amping these transducers? Still using the Berringer DSP amps? When do you plan to share more?

Tim Palmgren · Jul 15, 2019

Wmacky said:
I'd like to hear more about the hardware specifics. With the lower wattage requirements, how are you amping these transducers? Still using the Berringer DSP amps? When do you plan to share more?

I am doing something a bit different as well but it runs along similar lines to Mr Latte. Because the SFX100 is so good at transferring surface detail, even subtle little bumps my Dayton BST1's are not as needed as they were and they are pretty noisy as well. I am using the other feature of SImhub, via more Arduino Unos and xbox controller motors, which is a fraction of the cost of even one bass shaker and if you put them in the right places (on your pedals/on your seat) they come out feeling 80% as good as the BST-1's on the frame (since they are a bit big/tricky to mount). Since you already have the 3d Printer you can easily print mounting attachments for them and it is childs play compared to putting the SFX100 together. https://imgur.com/a/VO0lmUs you can see the way they are mounted on my PRX-SE's there.

Mr Latte · Jul 15, 2019

Wmacky said:
I'd like to hear more about the hardware specifics. With the lower wattage requirements, how are you amping these transducers? Still using the Berringer DSP amps? When do you plan to share more?

I am currently using some iNuke DSP yes but will be trying the Behringer EPQ304. That amp has been around for years but has enough wattage and powers 4 channels. Others 4-6 channel amps are suitable, we wont even use these at full power but having additional wattage means the amp is not always running at its max capacity.

Im not into d.i.y type amps but you can buy THESE tiny board amps with 4 channel support.
A thread was started a while back for tactile and SFX but nobody bothered to use it but it would be best than fill this thread with that topic again.

The solution I am offering for this concept is affordable but a user could start with 2 units and work up to 4,6 or possibly 8. I am for using additional larger tactile under my seat so currently, I have opted for a 6x Exciter installation. Yet to finalise the location of the spine units as will compare with two vertical than horizontal as shown below

See the tactile thread and go back a bit, it covers my early testing and thoughts.
If SFX in tactile, cannot produce independent effects per wheel, then I will only use it for impacts and the car bottoming out.

jv8 · Jul 15, 2019

I’m curious about multiple exciters on a seat. When I’m strapped in my (real) race car I tend to feel “one with the car”... it’s not like I would feel a buzz only in my upper right shoulder. I guess it’s up to the software to blend all the interaction between contact points.

It just seems to me that BK transducers on the sim chassis itself would model by default how a car transmits vibes from one corner of the chassis into the seat/driver (and also feet + hands).

But I haven’t experienced a multiple transducer seat so I don’t know. Just trying to wrap my head around the concept.

anton_Chez · Jul 15, 2019

You can't put those things on a chassis, they're too weak to generate any sort of power that would be beneficial. They work great on the seat because they are in such close contact with your body. Don't forget we are missing cues that a real race car gives us so directional helps to fill in the gaps. I run both chassis mounted BK Mini's and the exciters on the seat (x4) and they do all blend in for a nice feeling. It's like an SFB profile, it's all about balance. I only run engine vibes and a small amount of gear shift and it's a pretty great experience with a nicely constructed profile. I'm lucky to have one of those.

jv8 · Jul 15, 2019

anton_Chez, what do the exciters give you that the BK mini's don't?

anton_Chez · Jul 15, 2019

Just more tactile! Having them close to the body gives a more all around feel as opposed to the chassis of the car vibrating. Also, they are a good way to add tactile to a non tactile setup for a fairly small investment. 4 of these and a 4 channel amp will cost you under 300 bucks easy. They have a pretty faultless installation, just stick them on the seat, no mounting or placement hassles. I had the Mini LFE's already and added these once Mr Latte suggested using them. Since they were pretty cost effective and I had a spare 2 channel amp, I grabbed a pair. Then I grabbed another pair.

sn4il · Jul 15, 2019

Bodyzones are key to taking tactile immersion further,

Yes, that's the key. I've been experimenting with Simvibe and 8 Dayton pucks mounted in various locations just on my seat + 2 pucks on my pedals. The only reason I went with this setup was noise level. I was trying to keep it down since I shared living room with my family. (not sure If I can call it a sim, it was basically a 8020 desk with fold able steering wheel mount & office chair)

I was very surprised how well this setup performed. These pucks were powered with three Lepai's 2020.
I think I also found optimal locations (at least for my office chair).

I was going to add some low hz kickers (red dots) to add some depth to it but did not have a chance to try it.
I was also shocked about upper body pucks, especially high end rpm effects. Its just weird how these can trick your brain. Lower back location is best for gear change effect imho.
Another critical factor is the type of material these transducers are mounted to/through. I was able to get totally different feelings just by placing nylon washers under.
I will extensively expedite this matter as soon as my SFX-100 is finished.