The Sim Index

[David Ignjatovic]

Netkar pro.

What a bizarre game....this game doesn't have great GFX, has a veryyyyyy quite MP{but it does work}, has no career modes or AI to race against, so it's really just a hotlapping game[for me}, but it must be one of the great sims.

When I load Game Stock Car 88 Reiza Classic in Tcam, I'm greeted with beautiful GFX compared to Netka, but I can see myself playing netka indefinitely.

How do I score a game which encourages me to drive despite how little game there is, for example, FVA looks, feels and seems more polished, but for various reasons, netka's fun factor is superior, by a mile.

It's like the relationship between the onscreen car and your wheel is close to perfect....not that every car is perfect, granted I've only had this for a few days, so between set up changes and practice my views on some cars may change, for example, iracing cadilac is terrible with default set.

Let's just call it 9.3/10 on the sim index which makes it one of the best sims ever made from the driving, steering and FFB POV.

The FFB seems to be heavier when you're just cruising so rate of change isn't necessarily as pronounced, but netkap has very good FFB and excellent braking feedback, it also uses tyre sounds that have a bit a of a sharp digital quality to them, but they seem to make the experience feel urgent.

Some of the open wheelers really turn in beautifully but will definitely still bite, and they feel quite balanced on default set.

Unlike the deeply disappointing F3.5 in rf2, Netka's open wheelers drive well at all speeds, and you really feel like you've got pinpoint control of the front end.....plus, the overall controllability of most cars is as good if not better than any sim.

I think I have 12 cars with 2 as mods, a rear wheel drive abarth and a pretty good Lambo, I've lost count of how many tracks I have as there's quite a few as mods, but quality does vary, either way, plenty of tracks and a nice selection of cars including a couple of V8 vintage cars and a GP2 car/clone.

You've also got leaderboards, so you can compare and submit times....and there's also some set ups for dl.

Easily one of the greatest sims ever made and a hugely enjoyable driving experience, and as to be expected, works beautifully with my G27 which I set at 900deg in logitech panel.

So it's just 15euro=$19.50AUD, but this is not a case of buying it just to support a small developer, just buy it because it's one of the great sims.

 

[nijeat]

Rfactor2 beta{WIP game+score, and based on the GT class+Megane}....23/03/12.....26/04

EDIT...I've increased the FFB score on rf2 from 7.5 to 8.2....I did this because it's so much better than pcars, and also because I'm going a bit faster and appreciating it more, though it's damn heavy, lol.

EDIT 2...I've increased scores again....made all sorts of changes to my set up and something must've worked, as it seems much more convincing now.
There's something about this that's not quite right for me, it could be that's it's more of a tyre feel thru the wheel whereas Evo and GSC/FVA are more of a chassis feel, either way the FFB loads up and I can feel tyres but it doesn't seem to translate into information that I can use to muscle it thru some corners.

* iracing caddy vs rf2 FFB=2 different animals.

I'm always wondering when rf2 demo will come.

Because generally I've prefered not to believe the FFB of games based on ISI engine than its car behavior, I just wonder how it is at the changed rf2.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I'm always wondering when rf2 demo will come.

Because generally I've prefered not to believe the FFB of games based on ISI engine than its car behavior, I just wonder how it is at the changed rf2.

I barely play rf2 cause there's no really appealing cars atm, but FFB is very good overall, and also very heavy, it may have the heaviest FFB of any sim, but I turn it down.
FFB allows me to feel the rear on the cars, but when I think it's just a little slide it does a huge spin on me, also, driving rf2 at 80-85% is kind of unrewarding, it feels messy, but if you can get near the best times, the game gives you even heavier FFB and a ton of grip.

rf2 clearly has plenty of potential, but I'm waiting for cars and proper physics{unless all other sims physics are wrong}

 

[David Ignjatovic]

rf2 clearly has plenty of potential, but I'm waiting for cars and proper physics

rf2 b85 quick report....

Many people at ISI are claiming the new FISI is a great sim car and that grip levels/physics are better, and I tend to agree for some cars, so for example, the FISI and F3.5 are now very good OW cars, but rf2 does seem to demand a very precise set up, and I don't mean rear wing values, I mean every aspect of wheel settings and the rest.

So before I can give a proper sim index score on it, I want more time to dial everything in, but no question most people should like the FISI and F3.5.....and the FISI has DRS.
One problem of sorts is that you're going to have to fiddle with G27 settings to sort default FFB, as default is undriveable on some cars.

When you move from the now relatively sticky OWers to the GT's, you might do a "WTF" as despite an update, the GTR still feels like it's got b69 physics=slippery rear, so can't say I'll be spending any more time on those, also unless I'm imagining it, the 60's F3 now seems to have more grip and isn't doing 1000ft understeers into oblivion at spa.

Still many little issues to sort out, but a few more updates like this and we could be onto something.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Tcam

Sorry I had to giggle a bit to see your camera view and your "super realistic" sim index

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Sorry I had to giggle a bit to see your camera view and your "super realistic" sim index

People either understand and respect the sim index or they don't.

 

[Kazumi]

I wonder how many people use 100% proper headposition / eyepoint, head mass / inertia, and appropiate FOV.

NkP kinda forces you in the driver's seat and the incar dash doesn't work in the other views (and they are not that good, at least by default IMHO)

The worst position IMHO is in front of the center of the axles, kinda like what bumper and bonnet view do. I just can't feel the cars' rear that way. Head / Eye position behind the center of the axles and it works - for me.

However there are still people who prefer bumper, bonnet, exterior, whatever, as in the end it kinda gives you a better view of the road ahead as well and makes them feel comfortable - which is the point of beeing in the car driving.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

At the end of the day, if the FFB's crap, it'll be crap in every view, same with the physics.
My attitude towards tin tops is if I can't drive them in cockpit view, I don't drive them at all, but with OW I'm happy to use either cockpit or Tcam...in Simbin, I drive F3000/F1/fBMW all in cockpit, but in rf2, I certainly won't drive the 60's F3 in anything but Tcam.

 

[Anthony Levene]

In my opinion the FOV is just as crucial as the FFB & physics in trying to recreate an accurate driving experience.

It's a bit funny how you're always going on about simcades but now it's obvious...if you drive using an arcade camera view now doubt you will get an arcade feel from the game

Personally in rFactor based games I'm using a FOV of between 24-28 on my triple screen set up...which seems a bit extreme at first but is great when you get used to it.

Here's a good link explaining how to set your FOV. Also the iRacing FOV calculator is a good way to calculate your ideal FOV

 

[Hampus Andersson]

In iRacing i normally run FOV as much as i can but still keep both rear view mirrors across three screens.
And some cars i used to put it back just enough to see the rev-limiter or display.

F1 car i fit it so both rear view mirrors are at the endges of the screen etc.

(should be as "low" as i can)

 

[David Ignjatovic]

It's a bit funny how you're always going on about simcades but now it's obvious...if you drive using an arcade camera view now doubt you will get an arcade feel from the game

Does the view change the underlying physics?.....the sim index is only concerned with physx, FFB/steering.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Funny how there's 2 iracing posts just as I'm on the verge of rating rf2 on the sim index.
I should also point out that I want to wait a bit cause it's possible rf2 might take the top spot, but I have to think about it and make some comparisons to the F1's of GTR evo, FVA and GSC etc.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Just quickly, I don't know I could honestly say the FISI is better than the Reiza F1, both are extremely good, but no question FISI is a bit harder to drive.
I guess another problem is, what about sense of speed, as FISI has that over Reiza F1, so from a "feeling" POV, FISI makes a hell of a good first impression.

FISI feels tighter and more clinical, but I was using a modified set up vs stock on Reiza, I also thought that FISI would win on simulated braking, but they're both very good, FISI is probably better though.

I think when you get to the state that GSC or FVA's in, it's really hard to blow them away, that's for sure, of course, one thing rf2 might have in it's favour is FFB with a T500/CSRe, cause I had to go fiddling with G27 FFB settings and have found a very acceptable set of numbers, but it might be the case that a T500 owner would rate FFB in rf2's favour.....either way, if you have either game, they're both good, and FISI is still WIP.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Does the view change the underlying physics?.....the sim index is only concerned with physx, FFB/steering.

It changes the driving experience pretty drastically.

Try correct FOV versus a FOV that is like driving from the back seat. Two completely different experiences.

 

[Anthony Levene]

Does the view change the underlying physics?.....the sim index is only concerned with physx, FFB/steering.

If you want to judge how accurate the physics, FFB/ steering really are then surely you need to be using a FOV that is as realistic as possible.
As Hampus pointed...you should try setting the FOV at the minimum & maximum and see what a difference it makes. Not just to the sense of speed but also how you approach a corner. I couldn't train myself to look through a corner properly until I started using the correct FOV and then it all seemed more natural.
Unfortunately with a single screen it is difficult to use the correct FOV and not be a complete liability in a race because of the restricted view. But as most of the new GFX cards seem to support triple screen it has become a bit cheaper to set up (although the girlfriend isn't too impressed with how much of the lounge is now taken up by my set up!)

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Unfortunately with a single screen it is difficult to use the correct FOV and not be a complete liability in a race because of the restricted view. )

Sorry champ, but I rarely have problems with hitting people{26in LCD}, and I've assigned a look left/right to each side of my G27 buttons....works a treat.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

It changes the driving experience pretty drastically.

I just pick a view and FOV that I like, and I try and replicate this in all my sims, so everythings relative.
With the tin tops I also use the visor mod.

 

[Anthony Levene]

Sorry champ, but I rarely have problems with hitting people{26in LCD}, and I've assigned a look left/right to each side of my G27 buttons....works a treat.

Yeah but that's cos you don't run the proper FOV (do you read anyone's posts??) and judging by your iRacing stats you do have a problem...anyway I've had it trying hold any kind of constructive discussion with you

 

[Guy Moulton]

I disagree with this sim index. IMHO, games like rFactor that have no weather and the track conditions so not change are not sims. Though they have the sim physics and all that- when was the last time you watched a road racing series that had no rain? These sorts of games are great and accurate for oval racing, but not road racing.

Weather is such an essential and basic part of racing that any game without weather, cannot be considered a true sim. Race 07 series, GTR2, rFactor 2 are the sims that truly simulate the racing experience.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I disagree with this sim index. IMHO, games like rFactor that have no weather and the track conditions so not change are not sims. Though they have the sim physics and all that- when was the last time you watched a road racing series that had no rain? These sorts of games are great and accurate for oval racing, but not road racing.

Weather is such an essential and basic part of racing that any game without weather, cannot be considered a true sim. Race 07 series, GTR2, rFactor 2 are the sims that truly simulate the racing experience.

LOL, I didn't rate rf1, and I rated GTREvo as my no1....thanks for playing