The rise and possible fall of iRacing

Brief history on the Service:

iRacing started out in 2004 by John Henry and Dave Kaemmer. John is a co-owner of Roush-Fenway Racing for those who aren't aware, and so he was able to provide financial backing that has never really been seen before in sim racing. Combine that with the experience of Dave Kaemmer who has competed in the Skip Barber Championship in real life, and is the mastermind behind such sims as GT Legends, and you can expect top notch results. Finally an able developer has virtually all the time and money they need to create the ultimate sim experience. In a period from 2004-2008 iRacing consisted of lots of R&D and closed testing, some early members became part of the testing early on with most early testers joining in 2007 through connections in the sim world. In mid 2008 iRacing was open to the public but through invites only, then released fully to the public later on in the year.

The stage was set nicely, a huge amount of hype and community buzz had set iRacing above all other racing sims, before it was even released. Laser scanned tracks, cars being measured, weighed, and scanned for perfect accuracy. From a scientific point of view it was very hard for people to argue with what iRacing was doing, they were miles ahead of everyone else. They also have a 10 year plan, and a $20million investment from John Henry which they boasted through advertising and shameless plugs in the sim community. It was a good move by iRacing to let people know how serious they were early on, if they didn't there is no way they would get away with charging what they do for their service.

iRacing has a model that is unique to racing sims, but not unique to the gaming world. To use the service you must be a member, which requires you to purchase one of their monthly or annual membership packages. With the membership you get access to limited content, at first it was only a few cars on the Oval and Road side, with a handful of tracks. If you wanted some of the faster cars or more tracks, those would have to be purchased individually. People were so excited about the sim, they did not care much to argue with the plan, they did not mind that they owned none of the content, and were only purchasing access to them when their membership is in current status. If you stop paying to access their service, you lose all access to the content you have purchased. How do they control this? It is simple, the only way you can use the service is through an internet connection with a compatible browser. There is a large program installed on your PC, however you cannot access it unless you are logged in securely through their website. This helps them to keep control and monitor all things that happen in the sim.

This type of service is very controversial, but with the level of professionalism that iRacing was trying to achieve, this was the only way to go for them. By controlling things through an online browser, they prevent people from running modified versions of the game, which could include hacking the physics, or any other type of manipulation. That does not mean iRacing has been free from hackers though, there have been reports of cheats that have been used, patched, with the users who cheated banned, and no refund given. By controlling the sim in such a way, iRacing was able to display itself as a professional service, where people can compete fairly worldwide against their peers, 24 hours a day, with a full time staff of stewards and developers constantly monitoring and updating the service.

They ran ads showing professional drivers giving testimonies on how realistic the simulator is, which is nothing new, every simulator out has done this. However with iRacing, people are required to give their real first and last name, so users who are part of the service can literally search their favorite drivers name, and through a statistic screen, monitor the progress and lap times. This made iRacing unique because people can actually see professional drivers using the service. This helped give consumers confidence, not only were they confident that the company was on solid ground having John Henry as the financial backbone, but they also are able to purchase content in confidence knowing that professional drivers have sworn by the accuracy. From 2008-current the service has grown in overall members, but so has the sim. What started out as a few thousand people in 2008, has grown into the tens of thousands. Content has also been expanded, it was just a handful of cars and tracks starting out, but now iRacing boasts a car for everyone on both Oval and Road, with 24 hours 7 days a week series of official sessions.

The future of iRacing is still not very clear...how could this be though? With such a strong foundation, and having the largest active community in sim racing, how
could they ever fail?

Downfalls of the greatest sim available:

Even though iRacing has been the dominant name in sim racing since its release in 2008, it still has its downfalls. The sim does not provide a lot of the simple things that other sims have for years. Some of these things include tire build up, dynamic weather, and dynamic track surfaces. You are basically racing in a static environment all of the time, which is obvious to anyone that the real world of motorsports simply cannot be simulated accurately in a static environment.

Other downfalls are development times. In the beginning the members were very forgiving over long development times. Cars and Tracks were basically announced, then several months later eventually released, with some projects lasting over a year. As time has progressed and their team grows you would expect development time to go down, but it has not. Members are still finding themselves waiting almost a year for new content to be released.

Another downfall of iRacing is the content it provides, a lot of the cars are somewhat unpopular or outdated when compared to race cars in other sims. Instead of Ferrari, BMW, and other big names in racing, we see Pontiac, Kia, and what seems to be at random one car selected from several different series all over the place. So when you see something like Formula 1 advertised you will be sad to find out you only have two F1 cars available, and they are decades apart from each other. If you are a fan of Grand Am racing, the Daytona Prototype available is a Pontiac, and it is already half a decade old. This is the trend with iRacing, they tend to model only one car from a series, then by the next couple years it is already outdated, and then they tell people they have a virtual version of that series even though it is only that one car that is most likely not used in the series anymore.

Then there are the tracks, other than Nascar, you will be lucky to find more than a few real world tracks available where your favorite series actually races in real life. This, combined with the random car from a random year, can make you feel as if you are competing in some fantasy series, rather than simulating the real life series. Some are hopeful to one day get a complete series, but with iRacing's super slow pace in their development it seems near impossible for them ever to release a complete series will all the cars and tracks from the same year competition. Some tracks were scanned, and left to be forgotten with excuses given from the staff members that they simply do not have the manpower to complete, leaving a sour taste in the mouths of many members. On top of that, some projects end up getting delayed, like the coveted Lotus 49, it has been promised many times by the staff, but delayed every time.

This brings me to my biggest concern with iRacing, its quest for perfection comes at the expense of its members wallets and patience. For iRacing to prepare a release to the public they seem to have very high quality standards and must simulate things accurately through a formula. This sounds great, except they don't always get it right, and when you wait several months for something to be released, you expect it to be good to go when it is released. Several of the iRacing fans will just use the excuse that everything in the sim is a work in progress, and things will always be updated and changed. The problem with that, is it gives iRacing a fail pass, meaning they can release something that is a failure and get a pass from the community because it is a work in progress and will be updated. This is not just limited to iRacing, now that the internet is here to update games, developers across the board are releasing unfinished products and just updating things later on.

The problem with this whole situation, is it creates a circle of long development times, and a pass for mediocre content. Some will say they cannot have it both ways, they cannot offer an advertised realistic experience, yet make dramatic changes to the core of the simulation. Things like the tire model and physics have changed dramatically over time, and to this day the tire model still is not right. When individuals question the tire model they are met with some resistance from iRacing staff members who believe things are not as bad as they seem, but are also told there are yet again going to be more dramatic changes to fix bugs such as more grip with cold tires, but like everything at iRacing, even the tire model gets delayed over and over again.

Then you have cars that were driven by professionals before their release and have sworn testimonies of being accurate to the real life counterpart, that have since been changed dramatically, so now iRacing has to answer the question,are the cars inaccurate now? Or were their professional spokesman just spewing company lines to promote iRacing early on?

One will ask themselves why has iRacing not hired on more experts to help with the physics and tire models, or more professionals to help speed up development time of cars and help with the completion of tracks. Well, as unlimited as their resources may seem, they do not have an endless supply of money. If you think about how much it must cost to run a business like this year round, that $20million will get gobbled up fairly quick over the years, and the membership alone cannot support a super large staff. Even with a small staff they are paying several yearly salaries, sending employees all over the world to scan cars and tracks, not to mention other expenses like the cost of equipment and an office headquarters. They simply cannot afford to stay in business, and also have a super large staff.

There is a lot of controversy over the direction of iRacing, with its lack of features, and its ever changing view on how physics and tires work. One can only ask how long can this company keep all its members? Right now
iRacing has somewhat of a monopoly on sim racing. They are the only sim offering full time year round organized racing in a professional environment. Everything feels official with iRacing, and anyone can join with ease. This gives iRacing an edge over all other sims which depend on mods and communities to bring people together, which as we have seen before can be very messy, but also very rewarding if done right. Personally, I would love to see iRacing just "get things right", but at the moment with how they do things, it would take years before they ever start releasing complete series or getting cars that are up to date instead of outdated ones that are already retired from their current series.

Sooner or later, iRacing will lose its monopoly on this type of service, someone else is bound to come along and offer a similar service. If such a service comes along, and offers things that iRacing still has trouble with, like a correct tire model, or dynamic environments, then iRacing's future may be in trouble. They can only exist in such a state as long as there is no competition to steal their customers away. Eventually when another sim does come along that rivals iRacing, they better be ready to deliver on their promises, or face the reality of having to eventually close their doors after everyone but a few dedicated followers leave for the new kid on the block who offers something bigger and better.
 
The "plug and play" system, the "click here and everything is downloaded and working", the organized/sanctioned series, the licenses system, the laser scanned tracks, number of online players.... it's what makes iRacing so popular. You can come home after a long day of work, and be racing in 5 minutes doing 2 clicks. Forget about the physics, forget about not having Ferraris and BMWs, forget about not having Nordschleife, forget about having to pay for everything, forget about delays....
Until some other game offers this, iRacing will be my winner. And I am not iRacing fan, not at all! I don`t like point system, where some idiot chrashes on me and I am also punished as he is, cars truly behave strange when something goes wrong and I really, really hate monthly subscription. But again, until some other game offers me everything what David said, I will probably stay there, cars physics good/bad/realistic/ ... or not.
 
Until some other game offers this, iRacing will be my winner. And I am not iRacing fan, not at all! I don`t like point system, where some idiot chrashes on me and I am also punished as he is, cars truly behave strange when something goes wrong and I really, really hate monthly subscription. But again, until some other game offers me everything what David said, I will probably stay there, cars physics good/bad/realistic/ ... or not.

+1
 
The MX5 has always been quite nice to drive, in fact I'm friends with a guy in real life who swears by iRacing's MX-5 as he's built his own spec Miata and practices on iRacing quite frequently.

However, there are just under 30 other cars on the service that are not up to that kind of quality.

The McLaren doesn't turn, neither does the Ford GT. Getting on the brakes will ALWAYS reduce your turning radius, whether you're in a go-kart, mountain bike, McLaren, or Ford Focus. In iRacing, aside from a few cars, it doesn't.

And yes, on a few cars with NTM5. The tires DO heat up. And keep heating up. To the point where you can do burnouts in the street stock for 5+ minutes just to gain an unfair advantage.

The reason these sort of flaws sting is that NR2003's handling, especially the truck series mod, was nearly spot on. A nearly identical dev team over a decade ago was able to get it right. Why was there even a need to redo the tire model in the first place when NR2003 is still considered leaps and bounds ahead of iRacing by all 27 people that still play it?

And most of us would STILL be on NR2003 if certain community members weren't sued because iRacing was afraid the community would turn out better content than the guys that actually made the game. Go read the lawsuits, because thats exactly what happened and you all know it.

Such comments are often used by the ones who are frustrated and are unable to run competitive times and have to blame something else instead of improving his driving...

Unlike some people on the iRacing forums who cannot back up their post count with results on track, in the past year alone I've racked up two overall series championships, a 2.4 Hours of Daytona win, and a broadcasted Coca-Cola 600 win.
 
You are still unable to explain me what are those "bizarre and unrealistic driving styles" you were talking about, but instead you keep saying things that are not true or are simply manipulated, with only 3 messages :

"The few that DO venture out into the wild, try other racing sims, and report back to the iRacing forums with positive impressions, are also insulted. If you do this too many times, you get a permanent ban from the forums like myself."

"For every person that praises those sims, there are five others who say "installed it, did two laps, uninstalled it. iRacing is better because there's people to race with online."

"As a result, the cars on iRacing require bizarre and unrealistic driving styles to run competitive times, which defeats the point of a simulator altogether."

"The McLaren doesn't turn, neither does the Ford GT.".

It's also funny that you defend the old tire model, the one that really allowed unrealistic driving styles...
 
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Getting on the brakes will ALWAYS reduce your turning radius, whether you're in a go-kart, mountain bike, McLaren, or Ford Focus. In iRacing, aside from a few cars, it doesn't.
Can you clarify for me? Do you mean at the same speed, a car on the brakes will have a tighter turning radius than one at steady speed? Or do you meant that hitting the brakes first to lower your speed reduces turning radius?
 
In the 14th split.... Could win that in reverse :S
You probably have some issues with your overall driving on them, leading you to believe everything sucks ?

Typical iRacing fanboy response. "He must not be very good at the game so he criticizes it."

I drove ONE qualifying lap for that race, and it was my only DP race all year. I'm sure you spent a bunch of time nitpicking my stats, so you've clearly seen my Mid-Ohio 100 Split #2 victory against people who actually knew what they were doing. Due to iRacing being the only real choice for online racing, I'll occasionally subject myself to sub-par physics just to race against other people instead of broken AI or my own ghost car. If these cars drove like real cars and not death traps, you'd see many more wins and possibly a pro license. Unfortunately, I do not have the energy to totally change my driving style so I can wave my wang... er... iRating in front of a bunch of homeschooled teenagers and men who don't quite "get" video games. I would prefer NOT to end up under a bus in the real world because I un-did everything I learned in ACCURATE racing sims just so I could be all OMG GUISE I MAED PRO AND BEATED ALFALLA!!1!11

Can you clarify for me? Do you mean at the same speed, a car on the brakes will have a tighter turning radius than one at steady speed? Or do you meant that hitting the brakes first to lower your speed reduces turning radius?

If you're entering a corner and jab the brakes quickly, it'll reduce the turning radius of the car and kick the back end out. This is a technique that universally works in every motor vehicle on the planet, and nearly every sim aside from iRacing. Yet in iRacing, it either sends you into a death wobble or the car continues to understeer towards the grass until you physically stop the car. If cars actually drove like this, auto racing would have been banned in the 1960's as you'd be lucky to see 4 or 5 cars finish a race. How do GT3 cars make it around the Nurburgring without catastrophic 20 car incidents each lap when, according to iRacing, lightly applying the throttle out of a corner CAN and WILL make the car do a 360. Or 720. How do 24 Hour prototype races even exist when, according to iRacing, Prototypes are so unpredictable and unstable that less than 50 people even BOTHER to turn laps with them each week from the comfort of their own home.

Either iRacing's physics model is horribly wrong, OR even the most amateur of race car drivers posess cyborg-like qualities

But it's okay because the online portion is really good, right guys?

It will be interesting to see when AC/rF2 are publicly released, how many iRacers make the jump and get smoked by people who actually know what they're doing, and then try to justify their bad driving habits by citing iRacing as "perfect" and AC/rF2's physics as "awful."
 
Typical iRacing fanboy response. "He must not be very good at the game so he criticizes it."
In a certain way, a little bit.

I drove ONE qualifying lap for that race, and it was my only DP race all year.
So ? Still 3 seconds off the pace on a track where half of it is flat out.

my Mid-Ohio 100 Split #2 victory against people who actually knew what they were doing.
Can't say I've seen any good drivers there.... Bussel never drives the Indycar, and in his main car, the Corvette, he was 1-2 seconds off my pace in Fixed last season, would probably be even more in Open.


I think I'd need to see you drive. I don't have any weird driving styles (heck, I even right foot brake/heel and toe), and I haven't crushed myself underneath a bus yet. Even so, I now have two Vette championships in P/GT and you can probably count on one hand the number of drivers who can beat me in that car. Weird.

I never said iRacing was flawless, it isn't. It has a few problems and some cars are definitely worst than others. I mainly drive the Corvette though, and I think it's quite solid. As is the Lotus 79, the Ford GT, the Mclaren (although sometimes a bit twitchy), the Mustang and probably a few others I haven't try recently, or at all. The HPD though is quite bad, that I agree.

By the way, about iRacers getting smoked on AC... I was one of the fastest guys on the Tech Demo, and before iRacing it was rFactor. Took no time at all between all sims to get on pace. (Took 1 hour or so in the Vette to get within 0.5 of World Records at Laguna Seca first time in it, and with very limited iRacing seat time in the MX-5)
 
It will be interesting to see when AC/rF2 are publicly released, how many iRacers make the jump and get smoked by people who actually know what they're doing, and then try to justify their bad driving habits by citing iRacing as "perfect" and AC/rF2's physics as "awful."

I've heard that stupid theory so many times... you know what's going to happen? Nothing will change. The fastests iR guys have been already the fastest in rF, LFS, GPL, GTR, AC tech demo, etc etc (William is an example)... My bet is that people like you will keep crying forever because of lack of talent instead of accepting the truth.

Still waiting for a more detailed description of the bizarre and unrealistic driving styles required to be fast, btw.
 
Still waiting for a more detailed description of the bizarre and unrealistic driving styles required to be fast, btw.

Let's start on the oval side, where only one groove works.

The Nationwide car is about 20mph too fast on all 1.5 miler tracks (Kansas, Atlanta, Chicagoland, Homestead, and Texas). The best line around all of these tracks, atlanta especially, is wide open along the bottom with a complete disregard for saving your tires. Atlanta and Texas are basically plate races with one groove, highly unlike real life. There is never any aero push when you drive behind someone, yet aero push dominates real life races as drivers fight for clean air. There is no penalty for killing your tires on these tracks.

The K&N car has built-in traction control that allows you to mat the throttle without spinning at places like the Charlotte Legends oval. Highly doubt you can just stomp on the throttle with that short of a gear ratio in that heavy of a car in real life without it nailing the wall two seconds later. Yet in iRacing, that's how you get around CLO the fastest.

The cup car acts as if it has no rear downforce and no front grip. The back end is incredibly loose and your turning radius relies on speed rather than steering wheel input. It was pretty much an instant spin at texas if you tried to drive one-handed through the tri-oval. Yet cup drivers seemed to have no problem taking a sip of water or scratching their nuts in the real thing. Again, either the lowliest of oval drivers should be recruited by the Army to fly experimental fighter jets, or iRacing's physics are wrong.

The truck, surprisingly, isn't too bad, although everywhere is still one groove racing. Even at Vegas, where trucks in real life were pretty much all over the place.

Yes, there are a few tracks where you can mess around with your buddies and run three wide no problem, but in a competitive setting, one groove on iRacing is always the fastest.

As for the road side,

The IndyCar and ARX require ULTRA LATE and ULTRA WIDE turn-in points, otherwise the car goes into an unexplainable FFB death wobble upon exit. On ovals this car is awful, with virtually every track from Richmond to Michigan being ran in giant packs where netcode and Chris C Miller destroy the field 10 out of 10 times before the halfway point.

The GT cars (GT/C6R/Cadillac/MP4-12C) are all too dependent on aerodynamic grip. Speeding up REDUCES the turning radius, whereas applying the brakes makes the car tight. You're an idiot if you can't figure out why this is wrong. Again, if you adapted to this and were successful, good for you. That doesn't make it realistic. Overall, the cars just feel too damn light and nimble, the opposite of what you'd expect a Cadillac to be.

The Daytona Prototype is, on average, five seconds a lap FASTER than its real world counterpart. I personally don't mind this car aside from the occasional unrecoverable slide.

The V8SC was perfect during the build SVG came on the forums and publicly fought with people who thought otherwise. The next build, it was broken again, as if the car weighed 500 pounds yet still had the same amount of power. To get it to feel somewhat proper I have to drag the brake coming OUT of a corner... which is... odd.

The Miata is the closest thing to a real car on iRacing, although you are never penalized for overdriving the car lap after lap. Same can be said for the skippy. There is no need to conserve your tires. If you think you can do that in the real world, you're in for a rude awakening. The mustang goes through various stages of quality but I do not remember it being too bad; just that barely anybody drove it which is the case with a lot of cars on iR.

The Lotus 49, iRacing's new pride and joy, is awful. In reality these cars had a tendency to understeer which is why you'd see drivers purposely sending them sideways, as the bias-ply tires would grip just enough to carry the slide. Yet in iRacing, you can't go two laps without seeing half the field eat the barrier. These cars were death traps because safety was an afterthought, not because they would spin wildly out of control on a flat surface in 5th gear.

OH BUT YOU NEED THE PROPER SETUP FOR _______ TO DRIVE PROPERLY
Then what the hell is stopping iRacing from making these the default setups?
 
The "plug and play" system, the "click here and everything is downloaded and working", the organized/sanctioned series, the licenses system, the laser scanned tracks, number of online players.... it's what makes iRacing so popular. You can come home after a long day of work, and be racing in 5 minutes doing 2 clicks. Forget about the physics, forget about not having Ferraris and BMWs, forget about not having Nordschleife, forget about having to pay for everything, forget about delays.... That's pretty irrelevant, and that graph with the number of users says all. Always growing up.

And given the current incompetence of some teams like ISI, most likely those numbers will grown even more.


If you can some how get two brain cells to rub together you can have rFactor2 and every mod you want up and running in an hour.

The only think ISI is doing wrong is the graphics, they arent great and they are far from optimized.

Such comments are often used by the ones who are frustrated and are unable to run competitive times and have to blame something else instead of improving his driving..

It has nothing to do with being slow, Austin is crazy fast and I can stay with in about 1.5 seconds of him at most places in a road race. I never claim to be fast though and Austin is still relatively ;) modest about it.

The fact is you drive rF2, the AC TP and things like P&G the way you drive a real car and the way your brain knows how to drive one.

iRacing you drive like iRacing and if you can some how learn how to basically abuse it's flaws as its a game you win. Watch the rookie miata races and how being smooth isnt nearly as fast as over driving every corner.
 
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If you can some how get two brain cells to rub together you can have rFactor2 and every mod you want up and running in an hour.

The only think ISI is doing wrong is the graphics, they arent great and they are far from optimized.

Thre are many things more besides the graphics. Multiplayer is still buggy, with some odd collisions, and the complexity of setupping everything correctly takes time and effort (you have to log on ISI forums, find whatever you need, etc), when on the other hand you have examples like iRacing (heck, even Simraceway) where you get all the stuff with one click, and everything ready to race.

iRacing you drive like iRacing and if you can some how learn how to basically abuse it's flaws as its a game you win. Watch the rookie miata races and how being smooth isnt nearly as fast as over driving every corner.

On 3rd page you have a WR with the Miata. Do you consider that driving style as "over driving" ?
 
That's a respectable opinion of how the cars behave, however I was asking specifically about the driving style itself required to be "fast".

The Mazda is pretty damn close, although you can over-drive it like crazy without worrying too much about tire wear. In a real car you will not be able to run maximum attack for more than a few laps before the handling becomes greatly affected. The Skippy is next in line for being accurate although the whole "keep your foot in the throttle to prevent a spin" technique is over-exaggerated. However, if I were to use iRacing primarily as a training tool/simulation, I would stick to the Miata, the Skippy, and to a lesser extent, the Mustang.

This obviously rustles my jimmies because you'd think the quality of those three cars would set the standard for the rest of the cars on the service, and yet that isn't the case.

On the oval side, the only thing that matters is proper braking points. You can't make crazy line-changes like drivers can do in real life, you can't throw the car into corners at some of the higher banked 1.5 milers, and a fast qualifying lap is holding on for dear life hoping you won't spin due to iRacing's lack of rear downforce. In reality (and NR2003 if the opinions of many current Cup drivers are to be believed), Gen-6 cars are surprisingly nimble and a good Q lap is more about going as balls to the wall as you can than trying to not die.

In short, on ovals in iRacing, you are always trying to be as damn near perfect as you can with braking points and defending the preferred line, whereas real life oval cars don't require pinpoint accurate driving lines unless you're going for pole in Qualifying, and can be thrown around quite a bit & alter lines on the fly if the situation calls for it, part of what makes oval racing so exciting. "Calculated and precise" is hardly a word I'd used to describe Dale Jr one-handing it through the tri-oval at Texas.

On the road side, you are using the overdone aero grip effect to your advantage. Getting on the brakes rarely helps with getting the car to turn, and yet somehow the car develops super-grip under acceleration, to the point where if your wheel is not in the absolute perfect direction, you'll loop the car. So you enter each corner incredibly late at a somewhat appropriate speed, crank the wheel, and get on the gas, which sucks the car to the ground and suddenly you are blessed with so much grip you'd have enough leftover to bundle with girl guide cookies.

What happens in real life is that throttle application creates understeer and brake application creates oversteer. In iRacing, it's the exact opposite, so you are suddenly altering your lines to have as minimal steering input as possible to maximize the amount of time you're standing on the throttle. Coming in wide and late means you only have to flick the wheel and stand on it, rather than smoothly take the corner as you would in a real car.

The only positive application of iRacing's backwards road car physics would be with "fan cars" such as the Chaparral 2J or the Brabham BT46. As the facebook entry for this technology reads:

Brabham's lead driver, Niki Lauda, realised he had to adjust his driving style, mostly for cornering. He found that if he accelerated around corners, the car would "stick" to the road as if it were on rails.

Aero grip exists, but certainly not in "fan car" levels for your standard GT3 cars. Yet every car is driven like the 2J and BT46, often posting times much faster than what you'd see in the real world.
 
That happens in real life is that throttle application creates understeer and brake application creates oversteer. In iRacing, it's the exact opposite, so you are suddenly altering your lines to have as minimal steering input as possible to maximize the amount of time you're standing on the throttle. Coming in wide and late means you only have to flick the wheel and stand on it, rather than smoothly take the corner as you would in a real car.

That's a very simplistic comment... excessive throttle can create oversteer, and excessive brake can create understeer. Also, In normal situations, cars like the FGT and the McLaren are clearly understeery on medium-fast corners.

About the "overdone aero", if it was so true then the laptimes at Spa and Silverstone (aero tracks) with the F1 would be clearly faster than in real life, and that's not the case.
 
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"(like having to steer into the slide to save the car, instead of countersteer), which are gone now, but the driving of the top guys is pretty much as in other sims..."


Sorry my friend, you still h have to do it to avoid a spin. Its exactly what i do. Countersterring doesnt work or atleast, on some little slide but steering into slide still work and i use it
 
"(like having to steer into the slide to save the car, instead of countersteer), which are gone now, but the driving of the top guys is pretty much as in other sims..."


Sorry my friend, you still h have to do it to avoid a spin. Its exactly what i do. Countersterring doesnt work or atleast, on some little slide but steering into slide still work and i use it

And it should "work", because the more you steer, the more grip loss from the front tires, thus balancing a bit the car ... the problem with the OTM was using such technique was better than simply countersteering.

I've driven some corners veery sideways on some cars, and countersteer works quite well, even in the F1! (but you need mega quick hands).

Example:


Trust me, I'd have crashed with OTM or some older NTM builds!
 

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