The MP4-12C

[Austin Ogonoski]

The most anticipated car in build 0.3 gained a bit of a mixed reaction over at the official AC forums.

Here are some "quick" times to shoot for:
1:53.9xx at Imola with Semislicks & the default setup, third lap ever in that combo.
1:18.888 at Magione with Semislicks & the default setup, fifth lap ever in that combo.

McLaren stuffed it with a bunch of fancy electronic aids that default to "On." Don't turn them off and then complain the car is too hard to drive or slides too much.

My biggest complaint is that the car seems 10x better than the 458 Italia in all aspects, giving me almost no reason to drive the 458 if online were to become available today. Is the MP4-12c truly leaps and bounds ahead of the 458 in real life, or are the 458's physics still heavily WIP?

 

[Marian Zelenka]

I think this sums it up perfectly...

No, they drove unfinished car. That was a BIG mistake from McLaren. Later, they've been adding tons of FREE HW and SW updates. If you read mclarenlife forum, you would be surprised how the car changed for better and it's faster and better now. People that own both 458 and 12C say the 12C is clearly better.

Edit: Owners say that now the 12C would match Huayra's Top Gear cheated time on cut slicks easily!

 

[betterstranger]

No, they drove unfinished car. That was a BIG mistake from McLaren. Later, they've been adding tons of FREE HW and SW updates. If you read mclarenlife forum, you would be surprised how the car changed for better and it's faster and better now. People that own both 458 and 12C say the 12C is clearly better.

Edit: Owners say that now the 12C would match Huayra's Top Gear cheated time on cut slicks easily!

Hey, hey, hey mate. McLaren put unfinished car on sale. Not that they tested unfinished one (because in sounds like pre-production model) - that's the difference. Or in other words - when McLaren saw how good 458 is and what are the outcomes of the most of tests they decided they have to upgrade the existing models. I think that McLaren's engineers didn't expect how much better 458 will be in comparison to 430 Scuderia.
I think that was the main reason behind the upgrades - to clearly beat the 458. But I have to admit that I never heard about such a good customer service (I mean upgrading all cars they sold for FREE... that's a big thing).

But I have to admit that it's a brilliant piece of engineering.
Can't wait to see some proper test of 458 Speciale vs. newest version of Mp4-12c.

 

[ENDR]

But I have to admit that I never heard about such a good customer service (I mean upgrading all cars they sold for FREE... that's a big thing).

Imagine Ferrari upgrading all Italias to "Speciale" levels (at least the engines, the aero would need a completely new bodywork) for free. Hahah... Yyyyeah...

 

[Stuart Whitehead]

I've been having fun with the McLaren for the past day. I don't really get what people meant by being fastest with smooth driving. I've been around the Silverstone GP and Magione (where I hold WR currently), and I got around the fastest by sliding the car on 4 wheels most of the time. I know there is a lot more to exploit in those laps, but I can't imagine being faster on Magione with a fully gripped, no slipping and totally smooth run.

Well, you're not even in the top 3 @ Magione any more and I can say for a fact that smooth is faster It will let you drive like a hooligan and it's a blast, but it isn't faster.

 

[betterstranger]

Imagine Ferrari upgrading all Italias to "Speciale" levels (at least the engines, the aero would need a completely new bodywork) for free. Hahah... Yyyyeah...

Exactly... obviously one could say that Ferrari sells much more 458s that McLaren Mp4-12Cs so it would be more costly for them, but yeah... they would never, ever do that with their 'basic' models.
McLaren could just add GT/S/R/RS badge and sell it as a new model - but no, they gave free upgrade to every owner - that's a brilliant thing and they got my respect for that.
On the other hand you could also say that it was a matter of prestige for them, because Ferrari is their most direct rival and McLaren wants to start more mass-like production of their street cars, therefore they needed to show potential buyers how they care about them, and also, that their cars are better than Ferraris, ...and bla, bla, bla - all this marketing stuff.

 

[Marian Zelenka]

McLaren put unfinished car on sale. Not that they tested unfinished one (because in sounds like pre-production model) - that's the difference.

From what I read I understand they were still messing (not only) with software at that time and yet they still put car in their hands that they knew wasn't OK. It was rushed and yes, they started selling the car as to not holding off production and started working on updates. It's unfortunate and it damaged 12C image a bit, but as customers say, the car is now totaly better thanks to great customer care. They should start better with P13 when they expect better sales than 12C.

 

[panande]

I always set all driving aids to be off permanently and I did a 1:54.9 with the MP4-12C at Imola while I could only do a 1:57.8 in the 458 Italia.
If I had to choose, I would take the MP4-12C. I think it looks better (I like that clean prototype McLaren style) and it drives better.
I just can get around every corner so much faster than in the 458

 

[DennS]

No, they drove unfinished car. That was a BIG mistake from McLaren. Later, they've been adding tons of FREE HW and SW updates. If you read mclarenlife forum, you would be surprised how the car changed for better and it's faster and better now. People that own both 458 and 12C say the 12C is clearly better.

Edit: Owners say that now the 12C would match Huayra's Top Gear cheated time on cut slicks easily!

yeah sure but what version is in AC and to what degree can all this stuff be replicated? Pretty much every review you read or watch says that you have to drive the car like McLaren wants you to drive it... it's all about electronics and the car doing the magic...

Yes they updated the old cars to new spec which is great if you own one but it still doesn't change the fact that it is a very different to a 458.... Pretty much what you can see in AC tbh...

Interesting what Owners think it could do While the Top Gear segment is always great to watch it doesn't say much, different conditions, different drivers... I could go on and on...

 

[betterstranger]

From what I read I understand they were still messing (not only) with software at that time and yet they still put car in their hands that they knew wasn't OK. It was rushed and yes, they started selling the car as to not holding off production and started working on updates. It's unfortunate and it damaged 12C image a bit, but as customers say, the car is now totaly better thanks to great customer care. They should start better with P13 when they expect better sales than 12C.

I think that everyone will benefit from this: McLaren - because they shown potential buyers how they care about customers and made a car that in the end was faster than 458; Ferrari - because 458 was faster at launch of both cars and it got great reviews; every fan of fast cars - because McLaren now knows that they have to push even harder to beat Ferrari, and Ferrari now also knows that they have to give their best because there is rival that is equal or almost equal to them in terms of pedigree, prestige and know-how. And this battle will surely result in great cars - good for us!

 

[Kevin Ascher]

Kunos have to do something about the silly habit to overrev your engine on downshifts as it was stand of the art in Race 07, it's ridiculous.

 

[Qazdar Karim]

Kunos have to do something about the silly habit to overrev your engine on downshifts as it was stand of the art in Race 07, it's ridiculous.

This is one of the things i hate the most in racing games ... i even stop my hotlap when i overrev my engine ... many players exploit this to avoid braking in curves (which is more dangerous) !i hope we will get a proper fix soon ! it should be independant on the difficulty settings !

 

[tHenOrthfACe]

This is one of the things i hate the most in racing games ... i even stop my hotlap when i overrev my engine ... many players exploit this to avoid braking in curves (which is more dangerous) !i hope we will get a proper fix soon ! it should be independant on the difficulty settings !

As the damage model gets introduced this behaviour will be gone...just like clutchless shifting etc...

 

[DennS]

Maybe it is just me but is there a lot more FFB strength in the MP4-12? Turning the wheel is a lot harder than on the 458 for example... And especially the ABS rattles like crazy on my CSW (using the suggested settings by Kunos), the whole rig is shaking ... On the 458 I can barely feel that...


(I also noticed this on the racing cars, the FFB on the P4/5 and Zonda R is a lot less than on the M3 GT2)

 

[tHenOrthfACe]

Make sure you ffb is not clipping. You can check that by looking at the grey bar on the right side of the pedal app. If that bar goes red to often then you ffb is clipping. I made a control profile for each car and set the gain value to minimize clipping and maximize feedback.

 

[Kristóf Kerekes]

So, I've yet again gave a try to the MP4 and didn't succeed with settings up epic laptimes. Are you guys using base settings or something different? Can someone send me a Silverstone based setup? Thanks in advance.

 

[Turk]

Make sure you ffb is not clipping. You can check that by looking at the grey bar on the right side of the pedal app.

So that's what that bars for.

 

[Mr Whippy]

So that's what that bars for.

But if you are using defaults then it shouldn't be clipping anyway should it?

The 12C is weird to drive. I'm not sure if the anti-pitch geometries are making it feel the way it does, or maybe really high spring rates?

This car in real life is so heavily influenced by stuff like brake steer and damping rates augmenting rolls and pitching that I'd guess the AC version is just a springs and dampers equivalent for now so maybe the real data just isn't working right alongside the dampers just being static rate types?!


Lets wait and see what KS say about the car... so far there are lots of bits not finished with these cars and bugs etc. It'd be nice for them to say what we should be checking/looking out for and what still needs work then we can give better feedback.

It's certainly not gonna be useful at this stage to compare the 12C and F458 because neither is finished properly.

Dave

 

[Turk]

But if you are using defaults then it shouldn't be clipping anyway should it?

It was clipping on me, so I reduced the gain.

The 12C is weird to drive. I'm not sure if the anti-pitch geometries are making it feel the way it does, or maybe really high spring rates?

I'd imagine the McLaren is a car that needs TC to work as intended. TC makes a big difference not only in stopping you from spinning the tyres but it does corner much better with TC.

 

[DennS]

Make sure you ffb is not clipping. You can check that by looking at the grey bar on the right side of the pedal app. If that bar goes red to often then you ffb is clipping. I made a control profile for each car and set the gain value to minimize clipping and maximize feedback.

that is right of course, I was just a bit surprised that there are huge differences especially for the MP4... Would be nice to have specific FFB settings per car

 

[Jorge Alves]

Maybe it is just me but is there a lot more FFB strength in the MP4-12? Turning the wheel is a lot harder than on the 458 for example... And especially the ABS rattles like crazy on my CSW (using the suggested settings by Kunos), the whole rig is shaking ... On the 458 I can barely feel that...


(I also noticed this on the racing cars, the FFB on the P4/5 and Zonda R is a lot less than on the M3 GT2)

i think the ffb intensity pretend to sim the real cars and thats why it changes so much from car to car ... the e30 its the hard one and i think thats how it should be but i never drove any of these cars so ... i maybe wrong ... its a good question to be answered by @Aristotelis or someone else who drove the cars

The McLaren is the most challenging car for me in AC until now ... its the only one i cant control yet in street tires (spinning all the time ) and maybe thats why its the one im driving more this last days ... amazing car!