The Future of DTM-E

[Craig Stevenson]

Dear SimBin,

We know that if people buy DTM-E now they\we get DTM-E 2014 for free so.........

Is MultiPlayer Guaranteed to be include in that release?

Is DTM-E 2014 also Guaranteed to include any of the following?

Full Weather System?

Pit Stops?

Tyre Selection?

Tyre Pressure Settings in the Car Setups?

Career Mode?

Regards

Craig

 

[David Wright]

Wow that surprises me!!! Can't get better than racing real people IMO

In a league perhaps. But leagues are not exactly flexible, race when you want to, arrangements. Pickup racing is flexible of course but racing real people in pick-up racing is usually far worse than racing the AI. The AI can make it round the first corner, they don't drive the wrong way round a track to wreck you and don't drop out on the second lap of a 10 lap race because they are not winning.

Racing the AI gives you the choice of which cars you want in the race, which track you want to race on, how long the race is, and whether its raining or at night. You decide the the time of the start of the race, and you can pause it if real life intervenes. You can also decide if you want to battle mid pack or go for a win.

 

[Justin Swan]

In a league perhaps. But leagues are not exactly flexible, race when you want to, arrangements. Pickup racing is flexible of course but racing real people in pick-up racing is usually far worse than racing the AI. The AI can make it round the first corner, they don't drive the wrong way round a track to wreck you and don't drop out on the second lap of a 10 lap race because they are not winning.

Racing the AI gives you the choice of which cars you want in the race, which track you want to race on, how long the race is, and whether its raining or at night. You decide the the time of the start of the race, and you can pause it if real life intervenes. You can also decide if you want to battle mid pack or go for a win.

David, I think you're talking public lobby racing there and I totally agree with you but I only race in very well organised club racing here at RD. For me, its the perfect kind of racing. Enjoyable, tough, but fair, varied and most definitely clean!! That's why we run a licensed system here

 

[Kurupt CDN]

ATM all the current sims have a major flaw imo....none except the DTM experience have any offical series. Which was a major reason why i purchased this
I knew there was gonna be missing features for 2013 but once i found out 2014 was included in the price and more features were to be added i had no regret in my purchase.
I saw a dev respond to another bickering customer about never adding mp with "january would be a better timeline for mp" if true thats fantastic. Also a new blog will be started in the new yr reporting to the community what there currently working on now and whats next, so hopefully that communication will give us more insight for what this title is capable of.
Personally i hope they focus on getting RRE features complete than start releasing more offical addon series like WTCC/GT etc.

 

[Ernie]

In a league perhaps. But leagues are not exactly flexible, race when you want to, arrangements. Pickup racing is flexible of course but racing real people in pick-up racing is usually far worse than racing the AI. The AI can make it round the first corner, they don't drive the wrong way round a track to wreck you and don't drop out on the second lap of a 10 lap race because they are not winning.

Ok, that's a point, where AI is quite important. I agree with it.
Because i always race in leagues, i had just forget the public wreckage.

 

[Joshen]

You can also decide if you want to battle mid pack or go for a win.

The problem with the DTM-E AI is that you can't decide anything. It reacts to your performance and adapts to challenge you. Then you can only keep your fingers crossed that it's the challenge you want. I'm afraid that the ARI AI will make me leave this game as soon as Assetto Corsa gets AI. Which is bad since I otherwise like it (and paid for it).

 

[Craig Stevenson]

I saw a dev respond to another bickering customer about never adding mp with "january would be a better timeline for mp" if true thats fantastic.

I think that is highly unlikely considering just a few days ago they said MP "needs a lot of work", I also think people need to re-read the page here

With the upcoming release, fans and racers will not only get the DTM season 2013. As an absolute highlight, all buyers of DTM Experience until 31st March 2014 are granted free access to the coming DTM Experience 2014 that will include Online Multiplayer Mode.

If you are expecting MP for the current version of DTM forget it and DTM 2014 is unlikely to be released till Q3\4 2014, Simbin\DTM should really come clean about that?

 

[RaceNut]

I think some of the frustration with the new SimBin titles comes from recent trends in game development, some from their approach and/or marketing. New games require so much more development time than they used to - everything is more complex and detailed than ever before and the gaming public's expectations have never been higher. All of the current popular sim titles in development are taking a similar approach by releasing early access versions. I'm sure this was born out of necessity more than anything else. Some of us who have been involved with racing sims from the early days may have more appreciation for what goes into developing such titles than newcomers but, even some of us are frustrated with the time spans required to develop games today.

If we look at closer at the different approaches by SimBin, SMS, ISI, iRacing and KS, it seems that they all get plenty of bad press on forums and blogs. Some of this may be attributed to "Change". Humans aren't really very fond of change unless the benefits lean far to the positive. Beyond that, the "Free to Play" (RRRE) approach certainly has it's drawbacks and critics. The SMS approach of a limited time early-access and public-involved development may be the most unique. The ISI approach is attractive to gamers with a fairly full-feature base including AI and MP from the start. Kunos approach is interesting as they have a structured release schedule for new content, but is not full-featured yet. Each title and approach has it's own pro's & con's. All approaches require money paid up front for funding development. Any of these tiles would likely end up quite different if their direction, content and style were determined solely by investors only interested in profit.

While all of these titles are taking longer to develop than before, the nature of this new approach opens developers up to more constant criticism due to increased public exposure and awareness. All approaches are relatively new in the scheme of things and the ideal route for future development has yet to be determined. Fortunately for us, there is a lot currently in development to keep most of us occupied for quite some time.

I have invested in all of these titles with the exception of DTM, mostly because it lacks variety in car-types. The lack of progress of RRRE does bother me a bit but, there are so many other things to try and test that I don't notice too much. I'm just grateful that there are people out there dedicated and passionate enough about racing sims to find ways to adapt to ever-changing market conditions. I'm also grateful that there are enough people willing to fund such endeavors.

Cheers and Happy Holidays

 

[Craig Stevenson]

I've had a complaint lodged with the UK ASA, this was primarily in relation to Simbin\DTM's claims of Authentic or 100% Authenticity in their Advertising and Marketing for DTM:E. I've just received notification from the ASA and unfortunately as Simbin\DTM are not UK based they are unable to act, I have therefore requested that the case be forwarded to the EASA. I have also requested that within the Advertising\Marketing "buy before March 31st" is looked at as I believe it's misleading.

The UK ASA took about 6 days to get back to me so it's going to be after Xmas, possibly after New Year now before I hear anything more.

 

[Kurupt CDN]

You lodged a complaint to the UK ASA over a beta game which we knew was gonna be missing features?
And how is "buy before March 31st" misleading? maybe they plan to charge for online in the future and are offering you a freebie.
My quote about mp might have been a bit misleading and i apologize.....i meant for RRE

 

[Craig Stevenson]

Are you confusing DTM:E with R3E?, there is no mention of DTM:E being Beta or WIP or of features to come (with the exception of MP) here or here, indeed the whole point of this post was to try and establish IF those features were going to be added to DTM:E. It actually says FULL version on the DTM page, so as far as I can see it is being sold as a Retail product. Reading the Sim Racing Forums and Facebook pages quite a few people appear to be buying it in the belief that they will be getting either MP on or before March 31st or DTM:E 2014 on March 31st, I don't believe either of these to be the case.

 

[RustyDriver00]

I've had a complaint lodged with the UK ASA, this was primarily in relation to Simbin\DTM's claims of Authentic or 100% Authenticity in their Advertising and Marketing for DTM:E. I've just received notification from the ASA and unfortunately as Simbin\DTM are not UK based they are unable to act, I have therefore requested that the case be forwarded to the EASA. I have also requested that within the Advertising\Marketing "buy before March 31st" is looked at as I believe it's misleading.

The UK ASA took about 6 days to get back to me so it's going to be after Xmas, possibly after New Year now before I hear anything more.

Seriously?!?! Wow feeling of entitlement much???

Look through the ordering process
http://store.dtm-experience.com/game.html

Where does it mention anything it doesn't offer?

If you don't like the game don't buy it, but don't screw the rest of us over by wasting developers and associated personnels time with some bullshit complaint by someone who feels they are owed something!

I'm sorry if you didn't read any reviews etc. And weren't fully aware what was actually included in the game before you bought it, but if that's the case take it as lesson learnt and do more research next time!


Edit.

Just too add where the hell does it mention you will receive multiplayer on the 31st of march, all it says is you will get it for free if you buy before then, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that!!!! Once again get over your self entitlement life isn't all rainbows and lolly pops!

 

[Craig Stevenson]

Maybe you should READ the Forum more before jumping in with a rant, if you did you would know that I didn't waste any money on the game and as I result I don't have a "Wow feeling of entitlement much???"

If a case was proven the only Personnel time this would waste is Marketing\Advertising as they would have to correct their output and quite frankly they should get it right in the first place and as you say there may well be nothing wrong with it, you seem more upset with me than I am with them but hey ho

 

[Kurupt CDN]

Are you confusing DTM:E with R3E?, there is no mention of DTM:E being Beta or WIP or of features to come (with the exception of MP) here or here, indeed the whole point of this post was to try and establish IF those features were going to be added to DTM:E. It actually says FULL version on the DTM page, so as far as I can see it is being sold as a Retail product. Reading the Sim Racing Forums and Facebook pages quite a few people appear to be buying it in the belief that they will be getting either MP on or before March 31st or DTM:E 2014 on March 31st, I don't believe either of these to be the case.

No iam not confusing dtm with rre, they are built on the same engine/platform the only reason the dtm is separated from rre content is due to the licensing contract by dtm other than that it's all the same. So knowing what features are/are not currently available in rre iam not sure why you would expect more features to be implicated in dtm? Sorry if you expected a complete 2013 edition but after doing my research I took it as I was pre buying 2014 and the 2013 edition was more or less a demo/glimpse of what was in store and as Diego stated in the community q&a video #2 something to play with while they concentrate on finishing up features and content for rre.

Edit: could you please show me were you got 100% authenticity from? I clicked the 2 links you posted above and all I could see was this....

DTM Experience features a high level of closeness to reality and an authentic driving experience for all the players.

Unless I missed something I saw nothing about 100% authenticity, and if it did I would take it as in regards to the content licenses and not the overall rl features not included. On the first link at the bottom under key features what they list is exactly what we got and see nothing misleading about it, plus it's only a video game
I look forward to hearing the outcome to your asa claim

 

[RustyDriver00]

Maybe you should READ the Forum more before jumping in with a rant, if you did you would know that I didn't waste any money on the game and as I result I don't have a "Wow feeling of entitlement much???"

If a case was proven the only Personnel time this would waste is Marketing\Advertising as they would have to correct their output and quite frankly they should get it right in the first place and as you say there may well be nothing wrong with it, you seem more upset with me than I am with them but hey ho

I'm not too worried not having followed all your posts, I did jump in and see your post and yes it did piss me off so your on both counts.

However if you haven't bought it why do you care? people promote their product. I'm a huge ufc fan should Dana white have a case raised against him when he says fight is going to be the best ever and it turns out to be slightly better then average? ☺

I guess thats my big thing I dont understand why you care so much that your willing to put a case up about it? Especially if (which I've just been made aware of) you didn't buy the game? (You really should despite its short comings its great fun)

 

[Craig Stevenson]

http://www.dtm.com/en/News/DTM-Experience-Real-touring-car-sport-on-the-PC.html

DTM Experience is crafted with a 100 per cent focus on authenticity

I wouldn't have a problem if they would have made this a free (or reasonable cost) add-on for R3E or a Demo or a WIP BUT they (DTM\ITR) didn't, IMO they have fobbed off an incomplete Beta as a Retail product to capture the Xmas sales, I believe they only added the "offer" after it became clear on the Community and Review sites that it wasn't going to include MP.

So knowing what features are/are not currently available in rre iam not sure why you would expect more features to be implicated in dtm?

DTM:E is or was to be sold as both an add-on to R3E and as a Stand-alone game, so whatever features R3E has are to a certain extent irrelevant as DTM:E could have more or fewer features than R3E couldn't it?

Regards

 

[Craig Stevenson]

I'm not too worried not having followed all your posts, I did jump in and see your post and yes it did piss me off so your on both counts.

However if you haven't bought it why do you care? people promote their product. I'm a huge ufc fan should Dana white have a raised against him when he fight is going to be the best ever and it turns out to be slightly better then average? ☺

I guess thats my big thing I dont understand why you care so much that your willing to put a case up about it? Especially if (which I've just been made aware of) you didn't buy the game? (You really should despite its short comings its great fun)

I really don't have a clue what ufc is or who Dana White is, if it's Football you may as well be talking Klingon!, sorry mate.

Why do I care?, once again if you read the Forum (or at the very least looked back through some of my posts) you would know the answer to that, but basically it's because I've been Sim Racing for a very long time and that includes stuff developed by the SimBin Team when they were just a Mod Group, I own every Simbin product (some more than one copy). Have no fear I will buy DTM:E when it's finished or at least when I know they are going to finish it with the features in the original post, without all the usual Simbin realism I'm afraid it's just another Arcade Racer and not something I would really waste any time or money on.

 

[Kurupt CDN]

DTM Experience is crafted with a 100 per cent focus on authenticity, recreating the real drivers and teams as well as the tracks and cars from the DTM season 2013.

I can see how one could look to deep into the 100% authenticity if the sentence ended after the 100% but since there's a comma I take it into regards of what follows regarding drivers, cars, tracks and official licenses involved. In no way does it mention authenticity of features incorporated in the title which iam sure the asa will see it as similar.

 

[Craig Stevenson]

OK so how about

DTM Experience assures by its high degree of realism and skillful arrangement of challenges, so that the authentic driving experience reaches all players. The difficulty levels “Novice” and “Amateur” offer intelligent support for the driving dynamics of the cars allowing for a good balance between easy handling and a challenge to master. The “Get Real” driving model lets the player experience DTM like a real race driver. At this level, all technical settings correspond with that of their real life counterparts. Transmission ratio, differential, aerodynamics and many more parameters can be changed to simulate the powerful mechanisms behind a real DTM car.

Their use of the words realism and authentic just don't stack up when there are no pit stops and you don't have to use the two tyre choices through the race.

Their claim that "all technical settings correspond with that of their real life counterparts" is just factually incorrect as you are not able to adjust tyre pressures for one thing.

 

[Kurupt CDN]

I'll give you that, you should add to your claim that they also didn't put in the hot ass grid girls a swell

I truly hope you contacted simbin first about this situation stating your dismay, a rewording of the game title and your planned actions if not acknowledged in a reasonable time frame before throwing them under the bus?

Simply due to the fact there was a couple demos available with what features were to be included in the 2013 edition all customers had a chance to test the product to see if they enjoyed it or not with its current features. Those that bought without trying the demo and doing no research before hand ......we'll all I can say is learn from your mistakes!
I still feel your making the words mean more than they are and that your process of reporting to the Asa is a bit extreme over a video game.

 

[Craig Stevenson]

The ASA have replied today with the reply from ZEN the German ASA.

Your complaint: ITR e.V.

Dear Mr Stevenson

Thank you for your patience.

We referred the case to ZEN, our German counterparts. They have now informed us that the advertisers have agreed not to use the claim "DTM Experience is crafted with 100 per cent focus on authenticity ..." or any other claim which is identical in content towards English speaking consumers in order to advertise the PC game. This applies if and when the PC game lacks characteristic and crucial features of DTM like Pit stops or Tyre choices or Option-Tyre or dynamic weather.

I hope the above is a satisfactory response, and I'd like to thank you for taking the time to raise your concerns with us.

Kind regards

Emma Fuller
Complaints Executive
Direct line 020 7492 2232
Advertising Standards Authority
Mid City Place, 71 High Holborn
London WC1V 6QT