Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

Someone’s is bigger than some else’s…
Cheeky, come on are you 13 years of age?

Wow I feel, I have made a mistake posting again, having taken 9-10 weeks away from these forums, to give myself a break. The snide attitude and punk-ass responses and sidestepping asked questions. Gees yeah, I can live without it. I will however offer more in the spoiler below on certain topics and a tease....

The attitudes, do nothing to help readers neither. If people focused on what is possible from the "simulation aspects" as this is "simulation" as well as the amazing software, like Simhub then maybe more progress would be made. I would hazard a guess that many of you do not even use "spatialization" correctly within Simhub for positional effects, yet nothing is even discussed about such matters as some people struggle to separate "real cars" from simulation possibilities. It's also more important it seems to antagonize each other than get into the actual topic or issue.

These forums have many viewers that do not post, is it any wonder. Regards the issue of slip or other effects. The focus should be on what Simhub offers within its effects, what and how we implement those effects, what tactile technologies we can apply, even combine and better install to bring the most satisfying levels of immersion we can from the best operating hardware suitable.


@LeeHetherington, let me offer some points for others to compare with and explain at the end how I perhaps differ from the average sim racer interested in tactile. This btw is not an ego trip as I don't care for that but I do care passionately about tactile. What I say matters less than what I do.....

Since 2016 I have over 3000 hrs invested in tactile experimentation and shared/presented new ways to incorporate it. I have used other methods and researched effects operation and basically self-taught myself on this subject, of understanding audio better regards frequencies, harmonics and DSP. I started using tactile and experimented with it in different ways since 2006.

As a hobbyist, having also bought/tested the vast majority of tactile units available over many years, to determine how and what the best elements are from each to then devise a different approach to installations on cockpits. I have also invested heavily in audio hardware that lets me monitor audio outputs from multiple channels at once to compare effects settings to others and pursued my own interest in all this to achieve a better understanding to get creative in pushing tactile beyond.


Helping Others
Various threads on these forums in that people shared their rigs including tactile, who was it helped them with the tactile, who played a big part in what it used, how/where it was installed?
Let me say I give a lot more than most, yet I get the most flak, and crap on these forums regards tactile too.


The Problem
The vast majority of people, on these forums, have not experienced the true potential in what it can accomplish. The same regards its immersion and the satisfaction it can bring to a sim rig. That includes some that have good quality hardware but underuse it in how it is controlled and the effects they apply. Many have installations that are far from ideal, often using incorrect settings in Simhub, with basic effects and transducers that fall far short in abilities to my own approaches I have shared openly in the past.

This is a subject that is very confusing and daunting for many people. Yet one that very few people seemed to try to expand on the normal practices or done things. So, yeah, I will indeed take credit for my own efforts into this topic but I can do so and still see myself as nothing special to the point I even downplay myself or role in all this.

Now, who else on any forum has done something similar or pursued this topic so deeply? Can you, Andrew, or anyone please show/tell me of such people and their own alternative solutions or approaches?

Respect?
I have also, shared elements of my own development builds, over the last 1-2 years that make it more unique than the traditional approaches. This includes the combo of BK/TST/Exciters and better understanding isolation. Also learning to build/create effect sensations that, I am told by people from various regions of the globe, are much more accomplished than what anyone else has been offering.

Now, even If those points warrant me to have "a bigger one" type attitude. I really couldn't care less about that. Surely if I raise some points on something tactile related, based solely on my experience with tactile, then they should warrant discussion/evaluation? Not responded to via snipes and personal digs or jibes. Especially from people who cannot even offer solutions themselves.

Anyone, here on RD forums, if they want to offer their own or better tactile solutions, challenge my own advice, or need to correct me when I am wrong and of course, I can be. They certainly are welcome to come forward and do so. I continue to pursue and learn myself regards tactile and this last year in particular with behind-the-scenes testing has accomplished a lot in what defines how good tactile can be.


"Help Me Mr Latte"
In the 10 weeks, I have been away. I started offering 1-1 service on advising people regards tactile. This came about because several people in DM were offering even to pay for solutions and help that worked. They also want high-quality effects to get the most from their investment and journey into tactile.

What I can say, is that........
In the process of helping several people from various parts of the world. Having also to turn some down as I can only deal with 4-5 at a time. I know these people will and are satisfied and in building a more personal connection with them, then I get much better feedback with "effects creation" and ongoing "effects experimentation". I can then use the feedback from several people and see the settings they each apply and prefer with those, to help direct how we further improve them. What also becomes apparent is that we discover that different people have their own preferences too. From 3 variations of the same effect, people will like different ones or apply rather different layer volumes that each effect comprises of.

Several threads and attempts on these forums in the last 1-2 years failed that offered to share freely such research and development. Yet here from already a small group of people, who even pay for my time and help. It has been much more productive and rewarding because these people don't want the crap, snide remarks and attitudes that circulate here on the forums.

They enjoy sharing/discussing their rigs and passion with sim racing. They want working solutions for their tactile to enhance the enjoyment of these superb rigs they own and use what good effects can offer. Not just for fun but to also improve concentration and their lap times.

Tactile has unique abilities that motion does not but while motion has advanced greatly in recent years, tactile has not.

Future
What my 1-1 service and research has shown is that. People want to buy a working package, that takes away the headaches and confusion audio and tactile brings. To have an installation that works to a high standard and comes complete with all hardware, cables and includes pre-configured DSP settings as well as the best-developed effects available.

Now, what if it was possible to make that come to market to be added to rigs or already pre-installed? A package that offers professionally developed effects using an advanced tried and tested approach.

Car profiles created from experienced tactile enthusiasts / Utilizing telemetry data of cars engine output to cars own tactile profile / Generating rpm frequencies that better match the cars own audio character / Developed and combined with the feedback of real race car drivers.

These are the fruits of my labour, my vision and goals...
 
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Just a quick mention of what a unit under the pedals should be aimed at delivering the driver. It shouldn't be to translate what's happening with the brake pedal. This can actually be felt through the wheel, simulating what is coming through the steering column when things such as brake lock up occur. In cars that lack ABS, in titles like the original Assetto Corsa, you can easily feel the front wheels squirming in relation to what you're doing with the brake pedal. Tactile around / under the pedal region is more targeted, or at least should be, at translating what's happening not only around the front wheels but the front end of the chassis in general. In a setup where you have units under the seat as well as the pedals, you should be separating your effects into FRONT/REAR. For things such as bumps, you'll be able to feel the car 'running over' curbs and bumps front to back, as well as wheel slip, which as Mr Latte points out should come not only from locking up a brake, but also from understeering into a turn, oversteering from the rear on exit, or even taking off from a standing start when you light the driven wheels up. If tuned correctly, it can be an informative and useful effect that might not improve your driving or laps times on a per lap basis, but it will provide some info to go back and assess your driving habits as to why your tyres are slipping and whether or not it's the fastest way around the race track. At the end of the day, the car at its limit is always providing some level of slip, but there are degrees of which are useful for lap times and there are also times where it's detrimental to lap times. It's your job as a driver to find out which is which. At least with this effect active, you'll be made aware of what's happening and are then provided the opportunity to fix it if necessary.

I feel far too many people emphasize the effect of a brake pedal when in sim racing it's really pointless. We don't feel any form of brake fade, we don't feel any form of brakes going light, or dead, once they fail to effectively slow the car down. ABS being active or the brakes starting to lock up and be felt through the steering wheel as mentioned above, so it's really pointless to target the pedal area with tactile for these effects that are already being translated to the driver very effectively and tangibly through your hands on the steering wheel. Better to save those effects around the pedal area / front end of the car for other effects that may not be as apparent or even non existent through the steering wheel. as well as effects that add to the enjoyment of driving and immersion that you otherwise might never even realise are there.
 
HI, need some pointers as to setup my transducers in sim hub, currently I have 2 bk mini lfe`s behind my pedals 4 exciters on the sides and back of seat and a bk lfe concert attached to the underside of the seat.
ive been reading through this thread and in all honesty I am going around in circles.

is it best to setup a general profile for all transducers or individual ones ,

i cant get my head around the hz for different effects and the best working ranges for the different transducers. I want to get the most out of the bks currently I feel them at idle but not a lot driving
any advise appreciated
 
You can make a single profile, with a bunch of effects, that are sent to different units. Using the sound output tab, you can for instance send the engine vibes only to the LFE on the seat, the road bumps to the exciters and the Mini LFE's, etc. So make one profile with all the effects you want and send them to the place on your rig you want to feel them.

For hz, general rule of thumb is your LFE will go down to 5hz and probably will find its best range up to around 40hz. The Mini LFE's you want to keep above 35-38hz, as any lower and they can produce a knocking sound. They feel the deepest and most intense around the 40hz, but you can use these to go up around 70hz when you want effects that aren't as punchy, such as wheel slip or even rumble strips and high engine note. The exciters are best run at higher hz than the larger units, since they lack the ability to get really punchy effects from, and are more suited to audio like ranges of hz, being a bit more harmonic than bassy. It's easy to overdrive the smaller units if they are not placed perfectly and really close to your body, on the seat preferably, so be careful not to kill them with high gain.

The units you have will have optimum hz values listed in the item specs. Just look them up and try the hz values specified in the test tone function within Simhub. You'll get the feel for what they are capable of and then can use that info to form your effects. Some examples are low bassy tones for engine idle and G force effects, mid range hz for things like road bumps and effects, curbs and gear shift, higher hz tones for things like peak engine revs, speed vibrations relative to the speed of the car that simulates chassis vibration / strain, and wheel slip which needs more like a hum than a thump to portray the rubber sliding on the tarmac.
 
You can make a single profile, with a bunch of effects, that are sent to different units. Using the sound output tab, you can for instance send the engine vibes only to the LFE on the seat, the road bumps to the exciters and the Mini LFE's, etc. So make one profile with all the effects you want and send them to the place on your rig you want to feel them.

For hz, general rule of thumb is your LFE will go down to 5hz and probably will find its best range up to around 40hz. The Mini LFE's you want to keep above 35-38hz, as any lower and they can produce a knocking sound. They feel the deepest and most intense around the 40hz, but you can use these to go up around 70hz when you want effects that aren't as punchy, such as wheel slip or even rumble strips and high engine note. The exciters are best run at higher hz than the larger units, since they lack the ability to get really punchy effects from, and are more suited to audio like ranges of hz, being a bit more harmonic than bassy. It's easy to overdrive the smaller units if they are not placed perfectly and really close to your body, on the seat preferably, so be careful not to kill them with high gain.

The units you have will have optimum hz values listed in the item specs. Just look them up and try the hz values specified in the test tone function within Simhub. You'll get the feel for what they are capable of and then can use that info to form your effects. Some examples are low bassy tones for engine idle and G force effects, mid range hz for things like road bumps and effects, curbs and gear shift, higher hz tones for things like peak engine revs, speed vibrations relative to the speed of the car that simulates chassis vibration / strain, and wheel slip which needs more like a hum than a thump to portray the rubber sliding on the tarmac.
This is super helpful. I’ve been scanning this thread and feel a bit lost at some of the technical chatter and for months have been questioning if I bother.

However I did grab a set of four DAEX32EP-4 exciters and a 4-channel Douk amp to run them(50w per). I saw the combo recommended a few times in this thread months ago.

I have a Prisma bucket seat and a profile rig. Just entirely unsure where best yo stick the exciters? Was debating two under seat in thigh area and two under pedal deck, but I hear 2 on lower back, sides, or shoulders is even better.

So I may stick all four on seat. Just unsure where best? Ideally simulating the four wheels sounds neat, likely suspension and road effects. But how best to use the four to do so?

Also in Simhub I am confused on the volume sliders. I have the amp dials for each channel. Then I have Windows volume. In simhub I have the overall volume slider, then the individual effect volume. How best to deal with all four sliders?? All at 100, but use simhub “effect” slider for actual leveling of each effect?

Really appreciate help as I dive into this. Already considering also adding a BK for separate engine and shifting.
 
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I´m not sure the exciters will have enough "grunt" to manage suspension effects on your pedal plate.
Maybe you could divide the pedal plate for left and right foot and put it on isolators to show slip effects per wheel.
Same could be done on the seat ( without the splitting of course)

I have the same exciters on my pedals for wheel slip/lock effects and love it.
( front wheel slip/lock on the brake pedal, rear slip on the accelerator.)

For suspension effects like road vibration and road impacts I´d personally like something beefier.
My pedalplate is shaken by a Dayton Audio BST-2, the (OEM isolated) bottom of my streetcar Recaro by a AuraSound AST-2B-4.

From what i know today I would buy two Aurasounds because they "go deeper" in the frequency range and have more grunt.

Talking about volume settings:
You can use the volume setting in the SOUND OUTPUT menu to get the shakers to play nicely together and in the EFFECTS Profile you can vary the level of the effects which go to the same shaker.
EG: road impacts are much "louder" than road vibrations because i want to feel the curbs.

MFG Carsten
 
Don't get too caught up in simulating wheel placement. At the end of the day the vibrations and movement in the car all relate back to your hands and seat and that's where you want your information coming through in your FFB and tactile. You want maximum feel of your tactile up against your body on the seat. How you place them is up to you. I had:

2 x side pucks
2 x rear lower pucks
2 x rear upper pucks

Plus my 2 Mini LFE's one under the seat one under the pedals. I've since removed all pucks and replaced them with one large unit on the back of the seat. Actually WAY better because I have heaps of power and hz range and I didn't really notice the directional feedback I had them placed for before anyway.
 
Thanks for the insight. I think I may have to consider opting into a couple beefier transducers to add for pedals and seat.

In the meanwhile, I’ll just stick the four exciters on the seat and play around with placement to see how I prefer the feel. Worse case, I abandon all four in favor of two larger transducers.

Ideally I want to keep it simple and not blow up the rig with so many variables in play, but these Dayton exciters have been going out of stock fast last few months and the moment parts express got new stock I jumped in for four. They immediately were out of stock again after I luckily placed an order. It’s been kind of wild.
 
Guys, so you know...

As shared on these forums in 2019, the implementation of the "Exciters" and also in multiple sets was not solely intended so that they work alone. While they can be used in that way for a cheap entry into tactile immersion.

What most, do not appear to get the gist of, is that to better effects immersion, we do not have to rely on the individual performance of ANY specific model/make of unit. The multilayer approach I have been incorporating, in how effects are created can utilize the output performance benefits of all 3 types of models. These being, BK / TST / EXC.

This concept of multilayers, then lets us build effects, that apply the performance benefits of all 3 units and combine them.
So an effect not always but can, comprises of generated output from multiple units, potentially with, specific layers coming from each unit being generated.

Pro Effects?
Any such tactile rig, would have to incorporate large BK / TST / Exciter combos to allow the user to achieve the best low bass, the best midrange and the best harmonic detailing. Thus accomplishing the 1-200Hz desired output potential but with units strategically installed to fill the seat or pedals much better than traditional installations.

This Unit These Effects / That Unit Those Effects?
Most tactile users today, still try to define effects into little groups of 10-20Hz ranges and send an array of effects to certain units.
This is the traditional and limited way of doing things but the problem is, many effects need low bass frequencies, mid-bass frequencies and upper harmonic details to offer much fuller and convincing immersion.

Why, well because real sounds/vibrations incorporate such, they do not define something like "wheelslip" only into a 60-80-Hz range little box. That is what most people have been doing with tactile choosing little boxes of frequencies for different effects on thier tactile unit that most often only offers a usable range of @50Hz typically from 30-80Hz.

Good luck as you'll never achieve anything close to the true potential of tactile with that approach.
It's like some are still stuck with the mindset of what we were doing almost 10 years ago with Simvibe. :)

Multichannel Control
Because Simhub makes this possible it opened the door for greater advances in tactile potential.
With the multilayer concept, seeking to build more professional effects. The user can define to their taste to shape the combined output generated by altering the individual volume layers for the BK / TST / EXC units that combine together to make the effect.

*Impacts or *Road Vibrations are not limited to just "events" like curbs. That is not how effects work.

The best feedback is when we generate different output sensations for each effect when understanding the role of that effect:
Road Rumble / Road Vibrations / Impacts / Wheel Slip / G Load

These all can apply to activity on curbs
Yet when have these controlled to operate in a specif manner to suit their operational roles. Then they all combine to work together for a much, much better level of immersion.
 
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I have a quick question regarding amps for the Buttkicker Advance. I've had 2 bolted down to my 8020 rig for a month now using an NX1000D amp. I assumed at the time that this was the right call, but I just bought 4 more Advances and when I went to look at the amp again, it said at 4ohm it only delivers 300w? Should I have bought the NX3000D instead for 2 Advances?

I also plan on picking up the LFE sometime soon. Is there a recommendation for an amp just for the LFE? Thanks!
 
Well, we´ll see.

The transducers are rated 40 to 50watts at 4ohm, the amp delivers 170watts at 4 ohm
(impuls rated.) should give me a little headroom.

And if the amp fries I lost 20€ and the fuel for 50km.

I could live with that ;)

MFG Carsten
Seems I lost that gamble (to about 20%)

After some trouble shooting I diagnosed that one channel of the amp cuts out after a few minutes.:mad:
Four channels are perfectly usable, so in my book it´s still a bargain.:)
Only problem was the time to find the culprit.

MFG Carsten
 
I have a quick question regarding amps for the Buttkicker Advance. I've had 2 bolted down to my 8020 rig for a month now using an NX1000D amp. I assumed at the time that this was the right call, but I just bought 4 more Advances and when I went to look at the amp again, it said at 4ohm it only delivers 300w? Should I have bought the NX3000D instead for 2 Advances?

I also plan on picking up the LFE sometime soon. Is there a recommendation for an amp just for the LFE? Thanks!
I am using a NX3000D to power 2 LFEs and never go above above 2/3s of the output power.
 
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Hi Guys,

finally i added isolators at my pedal unit (i had them already at my seat unit)
WOW - just amazing :)
effects are much better/cleaner with less interference to my rig


IMG_1522.JPG


IMG_1524.JPG


Peter
 
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Peter, yes indeed...

I too found with this isolation working so well in maintaining the energy and detail that volume could be reduced. It lets you experience, just how much, many users rigs with no, or basic isolation waste quite a portion of the energy or lack improved detail.

Also by avoiding multiple effects having excessive gain, especially those that are more constant. It could allow you to have more constant effects, operate in an improved and better refined manner.

Yet allowing you to extend the generated output of specific effects layers for certain "high energy scenarios". For example "impacts" or track "curbs" but still have the general volume of other effects more balanced.

It can be down to personal preferences or even the mood we are in how we balance effects levels. However, with different frequencies (or effects using certain frequencies), there can be a "sweetspot" in the output that just feels right and improves the enjoyment the effects bring.

This added improvement these springs/isolators achieve should also let you discover that a more pro-level of tactile is not just about high wattages being applied. Or necessarily having the need for multiple units (often perceived) as being the best approach to tactile immersion.

For example with 4 units applying "corners" and these installed directly to the rig frame. Therefore not being very efficient in how their output is displaced over the rig and with less actual performance available from each unit.

So as tests have proven, "More" of something performing "Less" is not equal to "Less" of something that is capable of offering better or performing as "More".

Query / Scenario?:
I would be keen on getting your feedback on how with high energy effects like we seek to develop and use. How do various "curbs" feel or compare to what the SFX achieves from curbs?
Can you describe how smaller saw curbs are translated to large sausage curbs and how each compares or what each brings as its own benefits?

How does the rig feel with SFX motion only to using no tactile or to using tactile only and no motion?
 
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Query / Scenario?:
I would be keen on getting your feedback on how with high energy effects like we seek to develop and use. How do various "curbs" feel or compare to what the SFX achieves from curbs?
Can you describe how smaller saw curbs are translated to large sausage curbs and how each compares or what each brings as its own benefits?

How does the rig feel with SFX motion only to using no tactile or to using tactile only and no motion?

i try to answer with a short statement i got from 2 race drivers running my rig with and without tactile 4.0 - hungarian GT4 driver - national XBOW champion

both of them told me - JUST BORING - please get this tactile activated again :)

getting to more meat on the bone - SFX is giving a great immersion and great effects running on the track - not knowing the power of isolated tactile effects (i have to underline also the power of LFE and TST plus the combination with multilayer effects) - i thought there is nothing better available on the market ......

I was wrong - Tactile, used in the correct way (I had also my nonsense installations :)), is a powerful simracing addon i would rate even higher than motion systems. It took some time to get my body trained and convinced - but today my motion system is set to bare minimum and tactile is delivering the main part of telemetry data. let me explain curb - beside iracing - no sim deliveres a complete curb effect via my motion system - missing deep rumble and high frequency kicks (the nature a curb is build and effects tyres and the car). Tactile adds this effect and makes the whole run much better - talking about RPM - i guess many people will agree that in a real car the engine sound and engine vibration will signal our body the shift point - motion system (beside dbox they have some rumble integrated) are not able to share this info. on this effect tactile helps me to get better during races - no longer needed to what RPM lights or dashboards trying to simulate shift lights - my body get all needed signals that the engine is getting into yellow and red areas :)

I think i can share many examples - overall - Tactile is for me an important new area - i still need to learn many things - i need to optimize many effects - BUT its potential is in my point of view bigger than motion - sometimes it happens during my test sessions that i run 30min tactile only and i did not miss motion - i do not want to get rid of motion, but in my order of immersion tactile is now ahead of motion.

Peter
 
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Peter, excellent response thanks again.
Often on this thread I have vented or used it as a bit of a blog on my own rig or tactile developments. I've had disagreements with others on certain aspects or directions to go with tactile subjects or hardware and how to use it. Now, is this because I am just argumentive, or stubborn. Or could it be that I saw the benefits with my own approach, taking into account my experience and the potential possible I was finding with my own experimental rig builds?

What people here will not know, is one of the reasons I choose to send you the "RaceBass" isolators, is based on a response you gave me in encouragement. Also, when seeing what you have achieved with your own rig build and the fact that you had an SFX motion system as well as owning high-end pedals.

So, not only that you could offer a good stress environment for the springs. Yet also you came from a scenario in which, the tactile you had was not that enjoyable for you. In fairness like a lot of people have. I also could see you were a skilled person in your own abilities but someone that clearly had high standards and expectations.


Rewind
I also recall back when the SFX thread was at its peak. Anytime I tried to raise the point of how we could potentially combine independent "high-end tactile" with motion or some benefits one may have over the other. It received more than a few frowns or negative attitudes. Responses like will you give over about tactile, or being told that SFX has its own tactile and motion. Including at the time, even responses of certain SFX owners that were ditching their tactile altogether.

So for me, choosing you was also an ideal way to get some perspective on how SFX and tactile could be married together. A challenge and interest, I never quite got to fulfill with a lack of help here on the forums of SFX owners. In some instances like with @HoiHman that unfortunately didn't seem interested in applying my new approach with the tactile and ongoing development of tactile effects with Simhub.


The Steps Achieved
So, to achieve that. I had to convince you into buying the recommended hardware. Then, we applied the DSP to the large BK to increase its performance. You instantly found a huge improvement from my effects with this to the budget tactile you previously had.

Step one achieved (lol) you seen the potential. IIRC, this was then further improved with the addition of the TST and some refinement of the installation as well as gain settings. Now we could have a better combination with the BK working with the TST using my own "Dual Role" approach that few have shown much notice of applying. Now we applied the use of each unit for "layers" from effects specific frequencies. Not just giving each unit certain actual effects to output. This way we combine their abilities. As such, no longer were you being limited to the performance output of specific, singular units or indeed budget spec transducers. By now it's fair to say, things were going in a good direction.

The next improvement, coming from the springs being installed. These increasing the quality of the felt sensations being maintained within the seat. Requiring less gain to feel finer frequencies but with the benefit of bringing more detail. We then made improvements with modified effects and I shipped you some exciters.

With these, we applied more additional effects layers for matching harmonics but also for specific effects detailing. Often we had daily/weekly updates of effects layers being worked on based on the feedback you gave me. Additionally, some of this was me just playing around with some past work or ideas I had with effects experimentation that combined the BK TST and Exciters together.


Progression
So now you were at a point that had taken me, over two years of research and development to achieve something like this level of tactile immersion on my own build. Being dedicated in seeking to push the boundaries regards what hardware and how the tactile is used. How do we best install such and then building on things learned from past effects creation to continue in developing them further? To work towards achieving more impressive, more satisfying and more convincing felt effects that are a large step beyond the norm.


Delight & Relief
To have you confirm, how more enjoyable your sim racing had become, how it reignited your interest in immersion potential and to then have multiple people try out your rigs tactile offering their own feedback.


Low Fuel
This was so encouraging for me at a time I was desperately even doubting if I continued sharing my own developments with tactile. I had been losing interest in even sharing my journey with it. Some I had helped over the last 1-2 years, spending quite a bit of time with towards this approach of implementing BK/TST/EXC units. While indeed several members on these forums purchased or installed the hardware.


Exceeding Track Limits
Disappointingly, for whatever reasons, most did not give much of their own time to help me back in return. To let me test with them some of the effects ideas I had wanted to try applying to this new hardware approach they committed to buying. I can't recall many members here having shared their own attempts with effects creation or updating their own rig threads with information on how/what effects they like or use.


Enter The Pro Drivers
Getting back to your own rig and people trying it out. Some with experiences of already owning extensive rigs including SFX/D-Box etc. Including those people of such driving caliber and real racing experiences, not just "pretend sim racers".

This was the first time I am aware of, that my approach/research and own effects into all this tactile stuff was going to be evaluated by such experienced people. While being excited yet a bit nervous, I just wanted the honest truth on how well it performed. No need in, letting me down gently if it was just okay, no requirement for PR BS, no paid endorsements.

So, all I can say is, thank you Peter for sticking with it. For having faith in spending quite a sum of money based on my pursuits and recommendations and being to date the person to offer the most help and feedback on effects work I have shared.

What we achieved in collaboration in some fun effects testing with only a few weeks (even without advanced monitoring being used). For these, to impress those people and raising a few eyebrows to how it bettered other experiences they have had has been very encouraging for future things happening.
 
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I was one of the people discussing things with you re SFX a couple of years back and various points are still valid IMO.

My summary after a couple years of SFX and having had tactile for years before is that tactile is vital to my racing experience. I may run without motion but I wont run without tactile. I think, probably like you, that most people are not getting anything like they could from their tactile equipment. There is so much untapped potential because people have so much lost energy from badly connected transducers. Until people get their tactile optimum is may be hard for them recognise how good it can be.

Having said that, they are different beasts and completely complementary. I never used SFX to replicate 'tactile' as such - for example a rumble strip has never been on my SFX when tactile does it so well, defined and immediate. Similarly I dont use sfx for any specific rpm but sometimes the telemetry that gets deliverd to the rig from just torque cant be done with tactile. I remember you asking myself and others how well it does tactile but I never thought there was competition with that aspect. It was never about how well SFX does tactile, it was how well it does things our tactile was not as suited to.

I love them both, they are certainly not one or the other.

 
I agree that motion and tactile can be synergistic. That has been my experience, but I don't think it stops there

I have zero doubt that I have lots of untapped potential in my tactile system as shown by my recent experience with FFB.

I recently had a very happy experience with the new True Drive Paddock cloud configurations. I downloaded an SC 2 Pro profile with in game settings for Dirt Rally 2.0 and I was blown away by all of the additional information I was feeling through my wheel. It completely blew me away and added a bunch of immersion.

This is a perfect example of having the hardware, but not having it configured to greatest effect.

Recently I've read some glowing reports about G force simulators and I'm setting up a G-Belt on my system next. The idea of feeling how hard I'm braking by the pressure on my seatbelts sounds useful. I've also been told that it has synergy with tactile reinforcing bumps and it reinforces motion by pulling one side or the other in corners.

It appears tactile works by itself and also works very well with other effects to make them more immersive and believable.

I see this as a win win win. Tactile by itself is great, but it also makes everything else better.
 
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