Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[CC]

Obviously there is no lpf applied. What connection have you made and how do you feed a signal?

I worked it out now was playback settings for my audio devices and audio mix,
currently I have 2 working perfect now through 1 amp,
I need 2x TRS to a single 3.5mm adapters now to connect the other amp and 2 buttkickers,
but this SimHub software is godly was just ingame about 40 minutes playing around with the effects,

currently using a Xonar DGX Soundcard 5.1 using the green line cable currently with 1x TRS cable,.
and using my MSI motherboard with 1x TRS cable connected,
shows inside SimHub 1-8 channels I tried using just 1 soundcard and using other ports available but got no vibrations so not quite sure how to connect or take advantage of those extra channels currently ill look more later when I get these 2x adapters, but wow I would never go back to driving without this tactile feedback,

I used to have a Rseat Formula 2 cockpit but that came with the throne buttkicker and amp so only the 1 at the rear under the seat and that was awesome cant wait to get all 4 connected and dialed in.

 

[boern69]

I discovered that these parabol rubber dampers allow moving the rig
not only vertical but horizontal that gives u a different feeling if u mount a tactile unit 90 degrees
turned and fire fire it up...

It is impotant to put these dampers more in the middle of a leightweight rig to allow it swinging

 

[nolive721]

You are saying you are generating perceived motion through your shakers setup? Hence the need of 3dof elements like these dampers underneath your rig?

 

[boern69]

no
just saying that u get a posibility of moving not only vertical but
horizontal with these dampers ...
this could be with a shaker like this one for ex

or with PS Mover to realize traction loss via adruino - anybody knows where and when shop ps mover?
fact is this kind of movement or shaking feels different -> more imersion

 

[nolive721]

Thank you but i think you misunderstood my comments, what you call "dampers" have multiple Degree of freedom-DOF- by nature (rubber material) and design of the feet itself)

but you need to generate motion, or excitation, in the 1st place so this is where I was confused with your suggestion since I havent seen what bass shakers/transducers you are using on your rig

What you are showing are being used on shaker vibration test bench for example used in automotive engine component development

I will personaly add motion to my rig sometimes this year I think, but this is what I will use from dofreality i will go with the 2 DOFseat mover fitting my hybrid playseat diy rig
Its the most affordable plug and play solution on the market and i am planing to keep my 6 shakers running with the seat mover addition

 

[CC]

Thank you but i think you misunderstood my comments, what you call "dampers" have multiple Degree of freedom-DOF- by nature (rubber material) and design of the feet itself)

but you need to generate motion, or excitation, in the 1st place so this is where I was confused with your suggestion since I havent seen what bass shakers/transducers you are using on your rig

What you are showing are being used on shaker vibration test bench for example used in automotive engine component development

I will personaly add motion to my rig sometimes this year I think, but this is what I will use from dofreality i will go with the 2 DOFseat mover fitting my hybrid playseat diy rig
Its the most affordable plug and play solution on the market and i am planing to keep my 6 shakers running with the seat mover addition

I have a Playseat very nice to add these tactile devices on currently have 4x running,
I bought the seat slider and 2x gearshift holders and made 1 hole on each gearshift mount,
luckily the pedals fit really nice with 0 modification at all + I added a extra bar for horizontal strength tying each LFE together feels awesome,
I just bought 2x more where do you have your 6 placed if you dont mind me asking >?

This is before I got my amps so not connected but placed on the seat,

very impressed with the playseat for adding the LFE Mini specially on the pedals the bottom 3 holes either side of the footplate the holes fit perfect for the buttkickers, I had just the 1 bar made to tie the 2 together for extra strength like I say

 

[CC]

no
just saying that u get a posibility of moving not only vertical but
horizontal with these dampers ...
this could be with a shaker like this one for ex

or with PS Mover to realize traction loss via adruino - anybody knows where and when shop ps mover?
fact is this kind of movement or shaking feels different -> more imersion

I come from an engineering background and worked in quite a lot of plants where I used to work with these types of isolators for heavy goods,
there is multiple varies types from 1 single spring to 5-6 different springs and load capabilities also,
these are what you should be looking into will give 6 axis movement,
when turning the wheel and leaning will flex the entire rig that direction there almost 100% perfect for this application.
Floor mounted spring isolation dampers.

 

[saxxon66]

Doing some research for other stuff I found this info, that I would like to share:

https://www.ntt-review.jp/archive/ntttechnical.php?contents=ntr201411fa4.html

This method is called "Buru-Navi".
It uses ~40 Hz asymetric motions to produce directional forces using tactile.
This is the first time I read about a tactile device that can produce directional forces.

Maybe some of you more into tactile feedback can find some interesting info.

 

[CC]

Doing some research for other stuff I found this info, that I would like to share:

https://www.ntt-review.jp/archive/ntttechnical.php?contents=ntr201411fa4.html

This method is called "Buru-Navi".
It uses ~40 Hz asymetric motions to produce directional forces using tactile.
This is the first time I read about a tactile device that can produce directional forces.

Maybe some of you more into tactile feedback can find some interesting info.

Yeah I highly doubt would be useful for simracing application,
there simply too small you would need maybe 100 devices placed allover your rig + the floor mounted spring isolation dampers I shown above your post + software maybe through Simhub to give direction to the tactile devices then maybe you would have something decent at the end,
larger devices would be more suited maybe 6 large ones like back from 2007 + the springs,
but again you need to apply information from the game for G-forces=acceleration=deaccleration and such,
I wonder if the actual tactile devices would move the rig,
you are talking 100-120kg on average the rig + the driver minimum interesting post thanks for sharing it.

 

[Beef36]

.

 

[AlexN]

One thing I really disliked about the iNuke 3000DSP was the very loud fan, so I'm seeking a quieter amp to drive my 2 * Buttkicker Advances.

For what it's worth, I replaced the fans in mine with Noctua NF-A8 FLX (or NF-R8). It was very straightforward - remove screws on amp to remove the top cover, remove the fan and plastic shroud (fan power is super-glued onto the 2-pin connector but is easy to scrape off and remove with pliers), swap in new fan (let the 3rd tachometer pin hang off to the side), replace plastic shroud, replace top cover. Totally silent, took me about 10 minutes per amp. I added a couple stick-on heatsinks to the existing heatsink block, because why not (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J6GHT7P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1). Will it last forever? I don't know, probably not - I'm driving 2x full-sized LFEs per amp with no problem, but I don't set them anywhere near max volume.

As far as other amps, I spent a lot of time looking around, and the only options in the >300W category I could find were things like these plate amps (https://www.parts-express.com/cat/subwoofer-plate-amplifiers/332). Looking around on that site, they do have one or two ready-made amps with the plates already attached (home audio amp section) and they have some "full range" plate amps which are more likely to have 2-channel output (but pay attention to the max wattage on each channel). I'm sure they'll last longer and be much quieter out of the box, but it was going to cost me about 2x as much and no DSP in case I needed that. Figured I'd take a chance on the iNukes and worst case replacing them would still likely cost less...

You have a lot more (and a lot cheaper/silent) options in the <150W range, but that at most is a Buttkicker Mini.

I don't think you'd want to try plugging in headphones. If you can find some speakers, that would be better. It seems unlikely both of your BKAs died at the same time, so if you can't get either to respond to your amp... and the amp says it has signal volume coming in... it's probably the amp.

 

[Ceolmor]

For what it's worth, I replaced the fans in mine with Noctua NF-A8 FLX (or NF-R8). It was very straightforward - remove screws on amp to remove the top cover, remove the fan and plastic shroud (fan power is super-glued onto the 2-pin connector but is easy to scrape off and remove with pliers), swap in new fan (let the 3rd tachometer pin hang off to the side), replace plastic shroud, replace top cover. Totally silent, took me about 10 minutes per amp. I added a couple stick-on heatsinks to the existing heatsink block, because why not (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07J6GHT7P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1). Will it last forever? I don't know, probably not - I'm driving 2x full-sized LFEs per amp with no problem, but I don't set them anywhere near max volume.

@AlexN After fitting the fan, does the fan still increase or decrease speed dependant upon how hard the amp is working, or is it just constant max speed?

 

[AlexN]

@AlexN After fitting the fan, does the fan still increase or decrease speed dependant upon how hard the amp is working, or is it just constant max speed?

I believe it is constant max speed, both with the original and aftermarket fans. The amp only has a 2-pin fan connector, so there's no fan speed feedback mechanism (tachometer 3-pin) or speed control (PWM 4-pin). In theory, the amp could reduce voltage over the 2-pin connector to reduce fan speed, but I doubt it tries to do anything like this.

You'll want to find a fan that fits (80mm PC case fan), is quiet at max speed, and has sufficient airflow to keep the amp cool. I'm not sure what the CFM rating of the stock fan is. No problems so far with mine overheating, but I don't drive them very hard or for very long, either. A constant, high-power effect (engine RPM at max volume) would be your worst-case load, I think.

My friend uses the same amp and fan replacement to drive a Buttkicker Advance and Clark 209. He runs his at higher power than me, and for longer races (1-2 hours). His Clark overheats and shuts down before the amp does. Subjectively, he says the stock fan and the Noctua fan I mentioned feel like they move the same amount of air (when comparing two amps side-by-side), and the amp doesn't feel hot after 2 hours of use. Your results may vary based on how hard you're driving the amp, of course.

 

[Beef36]

.

 

[nerdthewise]

I believe it is constant max speed, both with the original and aftermarket fans. The amp only has a 2-pin fan connector, so there's no fan speed feedback mechanism (tachometer 3-pin) or speed control (PWM 4-pin). In theory, the amp could reduce voltage over the 2-pin connector to reduce fan speed, but I doubt it tries to do anything like this.

You'll want to find a fan that fits (80mm PC case fan), is quiet at max speed, and has sufficient airflow to keep the amp cool. I'm not sure what the CFM rating of the stock fan is. No problems so far with mine overheating, but I don't drive them very hard or for very long, either. A constant, high-power effect (engine RPM at max volume) would be your worst-case load, I think.

My friend uses the same amp and fan replacement to drive a Buttkicker Advance and Clark 209. He runs his at higher power than me, and for longer races (1-2 hours). His Clark overheats and shuts down before the amp does. Subjectively, he says the stock fan and the Noctua fan I mentioned feel like they move the same amount of air (when comparing two amps side-by-side), and the amp doesn't feel hot after 2 hours of use. Your results may vary based on how hard you're driving the amp, of course.

I am that friend and back that up. The new fans are so quiet I thought I ****ed something and had to double check they were moving the same amount of air. Night and day difference in volume (audio, not air)

That said, it was a little more complicated than Alex described. The 2 pin board level connection is not a direct fit as their is a compacitor in the way. I had to use the original cable from the fan, cut, strip, and splice it to the new fan (believe I used one of the extensions to avoid cutting the cable on the fan itself).

I have each channel on the amp configured to only allow max output permissable by each device and EQ'd to the appropriate frequency response. Attached is an image of the volume I run each at. The only problem I ever have is with the Clark Silver overheating and shutting down when I turn up the rpm/volume. 60% volume in simhub for rpm and 100% volume for gear change are the only things I have run through that transducer.

 

[Mr Latte]

Ref iNuke & Possibly NX Series
Sorry to hear of amp failures, perhaps can be repaired.
Not getting too involved in forums but recall this prior post....

Previous post from 2017 Here
The amps changed a bit over the years...

Fan cable was hard to find in UK/Europe but can be found in USA, some places may be cheaper now, than the one originally linked. My amps are not close to max volume, close installation to the body zone regions with decent sound card levels should not require the amp's volume to be beyond the 1 or 2 o'clock position.

I now have 7 amps collected for my build and fan modded this way no problems so far. I only put heatsinks on units once they went past their warranties as liked the option of having the quieter fan installed but easy to put the amp back to stock if needing to return under warranty.

NX I think are similar but not aware if they have quieter fans (dont think so).

 

[Beef36]

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[AlexN]

That said, it was a little more complicated than Alex described. The 2 pin board level connection is not a direct fit as their is a compacitor in the way. I had to use the original cable from the fan, cut, strip, and splice it to the new fan (believe I used one of the extensions to avoid cutting the cable on the fan itself).

Yeah, it's weird, on mine I didn't have to do this. I had room to just hang the extra pin of the connector off to the side. Something like either of these could be used if you want a clean switch from 3 to 2 pin (assuming you even have the clearance issue in your amp):
https://www.amazon.com/Bundle-CB-32...ateway&sprefix=3+to+2+pin+fan,aps,187&sr=8-20
https://www.amazon.com/Coolerguys-4...ateway&sprefix=3+to+2+pin+fan,aps,187&sr=8-19

One advantage of the DSP units is that you can set a max output wattage limit per channel. That said, my impression is that the buttkickers are fairly hard to kill compared to a regular speaker or the other transducers (Clark, Aura, etc.).

 

[Beef36]

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[boern69]

I come from an engineering background and worked in quite a lot of plants where I used to work with these types of isolators for heavy goods,
there is multiple varies types from 1 single spring to 5-6 different springs and load capabilities also,
these are what you should be looking into will give 6 axis movement,
when turning the wheel and leaning will flex the entire rig that direction there almost 100% perfect for this application.
Floor mounted spring isolation dampers.

nice idea

i tested mine with springs
before but dicovered the were not stiff enough so i ony used the shown parabol rubber parts without
spring
But for horizontal movemment the springs are good idea -> traction loss

important for tactile imo is that the rig can move and is not to heavy !!
------
Anybody know voice coil actuators 4 ohm like this with more power ??
(europe seller if possible)

https://www.dougdeals.com/bei-kimco...coil-actuator-4-ohms-split-moving-magnet-vca/