Mr Latte
Premium
Well I was also obssesing about not being able to get full range of frequency (calculated from real world Engine frequency) as well, but in the end I resigned and just went with what feels best
I run BK Concerts + TST239, which has frequency range from 5 - 72 Hz where I get the strongest feeling.
TST239 picks up strength around 50 Hz and goes strong up to 72 Hz where its strength drops off rapidly (74 Hz feels like 1/2 or 2/3 the strength of 72 Hz). The strength of TST239 is not very linear, even in this short range so I have some crazy profile where I try to get it behave little bit more linear
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Maybe @Mr Latte could give us his insight on this topic.
I have this frequency automapped in SimVibe to engine effect and it maps lowest RPM to highest RPM for that particular car to this 5 - 76 Hz (72 Hz is strongest, I adjust max range so I get strongest feeling from TST through pedals at optimal shift point, this vary from car to car). This simple mapping certainly does not offer variablility between different cars as much as I would like but the variability is still there - it's based on idle RPM and the curve how the car accelerates (increases RPM through time), how the RPM drops on downshifts and how engine autobrakes etc. Also you get lot of engine variability via sound of the engine, it's connected in your brain with the vibrations so different cars feel quite different as the vibrations develop with the progressing sound of increasing RPM.
SimVibe has more advanced engine effects in chassis mode for like 2 years and they still didn't ported it to extension mode, so it's unusable for mealso some bugs I reported haven't been fixed, after urging I was told someone will get back to me but they never did so I resigned on the matter
@Mr Latte is using mixing tactile and audio source for engine, but for my usage it's too advanced, relies on good sounds of the Sim you're using, requires lot of tuning, other sounds from game are mixed into tactile etc., so I didn't went along this road beside some quick testing. I might revisit this later, but for me it's important to jump from car to car / sim to sim without too much hassle.
Also there might be some new possibilities in that new software @Mr Latte was talking about, but I haven't tried it yet.
Yes TST do seem to have a peak output over BK units in that mid-high bass range. Many times this has been highlighted on these forums and combining both BK/TST can indeed bring advantages as can splitting the workload on a single unit.
Do keep in mind though that when we place Hz values into tactile software that what the unit produces is more than just the center values given. Indeed bandwidth energy will drop with higher Hz (this is natural) but if we can extract their detail then they can add possibly some additional richness or wider range to the sensation they output.
More Hz
We really want to be using upto or beyond 100Hz with the amps even if the detail after say 80-Hz is quite weak, its meant to be. We are better having some additional Hz above what the tactile used offers to ensure at least we give the tactile unit what it supposedly can handle.
Sometimes it doesn't feel like much but I think it's upto the users preference. Their own installation and the contributing factors involved with different rig builds seats etc.
For engine, we generally focus on the bass sensations and its also maybe harder to detect this upper bass if we have the lower bass so strong or extended. Just as like with headphones/speakers if we cut the treble and boost the bass. I dont know how you are using crossover for dual units and that is something to play around with as you can have the TST unit operate only with the mid-high range and then increase its wattage so that it perhaps manages a better balanced output to the low-mid bass the BK is outputting. This could improve what you feel from the TST and the higher frequencies detail. Really its trial and error finding for you the ideal balance and output that each unit within DR usage combine well.
DSP For Effects?
While I messed around with it. I wouldn't use DSP to tweak EQ for just a telemetry-based effect, even say "Engine" on its own EM in that its the only effect role the unit may have. One reason is the DSP is the final stage and it should be used to operate to suit the connected hardware not so much be in place to alter the source. The source can vary but the connected units character or performance abilities do not.
Tactile Software - Telemetry Factors
Engine output will differ even with the same settings in Simvibe as we have to take into account what the software also does in the background and how it uses the telemetry data that different cars have.
Basic Engine Layer
The simple reason is if an engine range is set to operate say from 10-110Hz (example only)
From idle to max rpm value it will utilise these frequencies. This before we even take into account how good the tactile unit used is or where its own peak Hz output may be.
If you look at this as a general RPM based layer for each cars working range.
Car "A"
This could be idle at under 900 rpm and its max at 5000 rpm.
It has 4100 of working rpm after idle
Car "B"
This could be idle at 3000 rpm and its max be 160000 rpm
It has 13000 of working rpm after idle
Both cars use 10-100Hz operation
The problem with this is we find we reach the best of the tactile unit's performance well before the car reaches its max rpm. So a good portion of the rpm is with the lesser feeling Hz.
We need a general rpm layer like this but we also need to build on it and combine it with additional sensations too. This is one reason I believe Simvibe introduced the "Harmonics" mode. Also "QuadStream" but with the quad mode while it allowed 4 layers to be nicely kept together it did not enable the additional features/settings possible with single layers and these are crucial to do certain things.
Harmonics mode enables the user to shift how the Hz work in relation to the idle and max rpm ranges. Also including added harmonics as this then broadens the tactile sensations felt for a fuller experience.
Whats Missing
We require a tactile software which brings method that lets us combine multiple layers to work within specific ranges or that the software allows us to increase the output within a controlled way for the rpm range how we want. We also should desire individual settings for perhaps these scenarios:
Idle / Low-High rpm / Peak rpm / Max rpm
Personal Views From Testing
Ignoring audio tactile mixing here are some of my own views. Factors for good engine sensations actually need more than just rpm based effects
I think that "Longitudinal Acceleration" is important for low-mid speeds, then engine rpm layers with Hz that are set to suit specific cars, followed by a heightened energy approaching max rpm and while all that is going on to then also have a speed based sensation that increases in its bass to represent engine strain.
Currently in Shakeit we can easily mess around with settings and get excellent rpm and engine strain feelings. Although I have in some cases experienced a repeated thump type feeling as both sensations are being used.
Odd Sensation / Speed & RPM Combined
Its as if the two effects are out of sync or making the tactile unit struggle to output both simultaneously. This may in part be piston related or down to the varation in Hz being used and attempting to have better-matched harmonics could help eliminate or reduce the issue. It may even be best to keep speed based effects separated from the same unit as the rpm based effects/unit. Let each do their own thing but the sensations combine in the seat/pedals sections/platforms. I halted spending a lot of time into this as its best to see what options coming with the major update bring.
Really though we need to see what updates come for Shakeit and then create a thread for discussing settings or sharing profiles. It will be at a point of being cable of bringing very, very good tactile immersion. Yet the same problems like Simvibe arise in that people will not know how to configure or build good effects sensations, what settings to use? Thats where people like myself or others that like to tinker with such spending hours messing around can come together.
Future Is Bright
I am expecting more control and better possibilities than Simvibe currently has and as explained to the developer the more options we have or ways to utilise the telemetry then the better effect sensations we can create. He has already incorporated some ideas I shared but also those of others and that's one of the best things with Shakeit. The developer seems happy with taking onboard suggestions and is capable of making them possible. His efforts need to be more applauded in my view.
SSW, in contrast just does not give us enough control options for what we are seeking in advanced tactile so a large part of some of the benefits .wav effects can bring is being limited. While I still see some good effects potential with it if/when Shakeit brings new updates and features (I know of) and at some point new effects like ABS braking and Lateral G. It is then going to be interesting to see if we even need SSW or Simvibe.
Shakeit may as a single package bring things each has been limiting till now or didn't offer and that's whats exciting me about it. The focus for it is in being community-based and not a product for profit.
For me I will continue to have the functionality for multiple sources/options to be mixed or used if desired but this is primarily to discover for myself (as a hobbyist) how each may compare or what from each can bring to help achieve the best immersion.
Detailed Overview:
I plan a thread for Shakeit to discuss the different settings and effects it has with others in trying to help those that decide to give it a go. Its easy for the community to share profiles and people could be sharing profiles that are then known to work well on the different hardware. This is one thing Simvibe really failed with doing or even creating their own profiles for customers. They did nothing to take into account factors like different peoples installations or propose how to tune a rig or use settings that suited the level of hardware they were using.
How good would it be, just like SFX100 or Anton did with V3 that some have gone out of their way in learning/testing/calibrating good working profiles so then others can immediately begin to enjoy them.
@mikefreeman best to do a thread for your own build with images to show and discuss the installation for your rig.
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