Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

Like much of the tactile units I bought over time, I have had some good bargains and missed my fair share too. I got a BK Concert in Jan 2018 for £160 with the idea of using it in my upcoming build to separate effects from the main 4 units.

So the idea I had, was that in SSW the BK Concert would be used for "engine / gearchange / acceleration / braking" for the seat as a central mono unit and these being (mono based effects).

This meant it removed much of the workload from the main 4 BK LFE tactile units.
Leaving in SSW then only "bumps / road surface / wheel slip / lateral g" and these being (stereo based effects) operating across the 4 main channels (front/rear).

Having been keeping an eye for a 2nd unit, to use in the pedal region for the same purposes.
I finally, got another bargain. This one listed as new still in box for £190.

Bearing in mind, with Brexit nonsense affecting the UK and recent increases in goods, these units from UK official stockist are £325 each.

Im all chuffed, another step closer to my own build goals....

xXzKBJi.png
 
Last edited:
How important is the Behringer DSP? I'm asking because the Behringer iNuke NU4-6000 seems like a great amp for 4 buttkickers for chassis mode since u need all the buttkickers on a seperate channel. The problem is, the iNuke NU4-6000 doesn't have the DSP feature :(

If these below are important to the user, then yes DSP is a benefit. Keep in mind to remember the DSP models also bring "wattage limiter control" and the ability to support 2-8ohm units. Some amps with such features cost into the thousands yet the price differences between the non-DSP and DSP is not that much.


DSP:
  • Determines what frequencies, can/will operate on the tactile installed
  • Determines what energy specific or individual frequencies may have, user can adjust to suit tactile being used
In simple laymans terms, enables the user to control or reduce reverb some frequencies may generate on the user's rig/materials. Also to tune how effects come across on the tactile being used or suited more to their tactile units own individual "operating character".

Really its all about having more control and it's not that hard to learn how to use when the person spends some time with it. Many however do not bother but that's upto them.

I would say that those with the more upmarket tactile can achieve more with the features. Although this does not mean someone with say ADX cannot fine tune them to operate more to their own preference. Once the units are tuned you don't really need to constantly make changes but a user can totally change the operation of the "frequencies" by loading different presets.

I often use the example of a "midnight mode" that can have your tactile operating that it controls/restricts the energy but unlike reducing the volume a normal user would do. This can be set by the user to restrict some frequencies more than others. Basically keeping some of the energy but limiting the noise or vibrations being generated.





It's getting a little better. I just discovered that you can add more types of effects than what's listed. I still can't get bumps scaled to one another though :(

I'm trying to feel a big bump @ turn 1 w/ the F301 @ Buenos Aires #9 in Automobilista. I've tried the following individually and all at once but failed:
- road bumps
- road texture
- front suspension bumps
- front suspension surges
- vertical surges
- vertical texture

You can visually see the car hitting a big bump at the entrance of turn 1 (BA #9) but you don't get a big kick from the transducer yet, at other corners with way smaller bumps and going 1/4th the speed, you get big kicks from the transducer. It makes no sense...


P.S. on the brighter side, "engine vibration w/ harmonics & load" and "engine RPM quad stream" are so cool and way better than the default "engine vibration."

Personally, I can't comment if your issue is just with this sim. If however, the log shows a response in SSW then yes you should have sensation.

Simvibe engine/harmonic mode can also easily swallow up some other effects. As the engine is constant, often people like it strong too. So you may lose tactial detailing of other effects if a single unit is having to produce several effects all at once.

The best way around this is in Simvibe using EM channels (with aditional units) for engine and some other effects. Or in SSW placing only certain effects to operate on specific channels. In both cases its just a matter of reducing the workload a unit has and helping it to be more optimal in its detailing for the role of the effects it has or is being given.

I gave an example above for my own build how I plan to do this but users will vary in how they may want certain effects to be distributed over thier rigs or the tactile units they may have/use.



Advnaced Channel Distribution & Effects Control:
I may want in SSW via 6 channel mode, have acceleration G-force to be 80% at the rear and 20% at the front. So this works over only the central units. Yet perhaps have deceleration/braking operate on the central units too at 60% front and 40% rear balance.

This is part of defining how we want our rigs to react but its also an important part of being able to achieve different sensations for individual car classes or "Car Profiles". Yet the vast majority of Simvibe users or indeed SSW are not really bringing the full potential of this. Nor do the repsective owners of the software in each case with the "default" files or settings they offer.

In SSW we can apply specific levels of energy for the effect to individual channels or have it operate only on 1 or all 6 channels. This is also much easier to do in SSW and control than it is in Simvibe. Its a matter of just learning how to use the additional software (Audacity).

Furthermore, I could compare that sensation to seeking to gain even more.
Lets say we then apply the usage of the main front and rear units also. However we do this, say for braking/deceleration energy only.

So now, with the main channels also operating with the central channels, each adding their own level-balance of energy. What if we add to the main channels 30% front and 20% rear.

Now compared to the first scenario, we could be generating very powerful braking energy over all 6 units at once to really give the sensation of braking much-increased g-load and immersion or impression if it suits the car being driven? Yet even with all this happening we still achieve a clear "positional distribution" of more energy up front at the pedals going into the feet/legs of the user.

What can be achieved may be quite interesting but a user with multiple units has more ways to cleaverly utilise effects and their dustrubution. Its not always about cramming as many effects as possible into each unit and then just adding more and more units with the same effects.


Tip: @Michal Burisin
 
Last edited:
Advnaced Channel Distribution & Effects Control:
I may want in SSW via 6 channel mode, have acceleration G-force to be 80% at the rear and 20% at the front. Yet to work over only the central units. Yet perhaps have deceleration/braking operate on the central units at 60% front and 40% rear. In SSW we can apply specific levels of energy for the effect to individual channels or have it operate only on 1 or all 6 channels. This is also much easier to do in SSW and control than it is in Simvibe.

Furthermore, I could compare that sensation to applying usage of the main front and rear units for braking energy only. Adding their own level-balance of 30% front and 10% rear. In this scenario, it could be generating very powerful braking energy but with a clear distribution of more energy up front at the pedals. Yet for acceleration, it has clear distrubution of more energy at the rear.

I'd be interested in learning more about how you set this up. I am disappointed with the impending brake lockup and oversteer effects in SimVibe. I have one BK mini LFE under the pedals and one under the seat. I want those two units to provide feedback from the front and rear of the car to help make up for not having the G-forces I am used to having from my on-track experience.
 
I'd be interested in learning more about how you set this up. I am disappointed with the impending brake lockup and oversteer effects in SimVibe. I have one BK mini LFE under the pedals and one under the seat. I want those two units to provide feedback from the front and rear of the car to help make up for not having the G-forces I am used to having from my on-track experience.

What sims offer brake lock up or g-force based load with Simvibe?

I have over the past 8 months had some people test not only distribution of braking/acceleration load. We can also likewise place more engine balance to suit (front/mid/rear) engine displacement. Its basically about using the creation of the effect files amplitude. In having it set to work like a fader/balance control for different energy % over front/rear units.

We then save these as individual car profiles, to alter the energy of one cars acceleration/braking force or one being a front engine based car or a rear engine based car.


I have been seeking Mini LFE owners for feedback towards gathering more knowledge on how some created effects I am workin on compare to others. Send me a PM if your interested in doing some tests with SSW but currently testing focus is with Assetto Corsa only.
 
The iNuke NU4 6000 doesn't have dsp but it's perfect otherwise since it's basically a 4-channel version of the iNuke dsp 3000. It also costs less than 2 iNuke dsp 1000s. So it's better in every area: less hardware & space (1 unit instead of 2), more power/channel (1500w vs 1000w), and less expensive (1x nu4 vs 2x dsp 1000)...It's just missing the dsp which sucks :(

Also, do you recommend the tst 239 silver or the buttkicker advance? For only 1 tactile unit (for now), the mini lfe/concert/gamer2 isn't quite cutting it for me when it comes to high frequency effects (70-150+ Hz) although it's definitely strong enough below 60 Hz so I'm looking into either the tst 239 silver or bk advance (not the standard lfe/concert...too big for my current setup).
 
I've read that the amp should be at least a little more powerful than the speakers in order to make sure you can get the best out of the speakers and avoid clipping the amp...

The iNuke 1000 is only 210 watts RMS, 310 watts peak (4 ohms) while the Buttkicker Advance is 400w max. Does that mean I need to get a more powerful iNuke than the 1000 in order to get the best out of the Buttkicker Advance?
 
Last edited:
Day 4 of tuning, over 16 hours later and I'm still tuning SimVibe for the same game, same car, and same track. What a joke. I had finally found some pretty good settings then SimVibe crashed (not the first time) and lost all my settings.

Does anyone know how the auto-tuning thing works in SimVibe? I do laps and it logs more than 500 samples and then what? Does it create a profile based on that? I don't see a profile created...And my SimVibe settings remain terrible while needing massive adjustments so I don't think the auto-tuning thing is even doing much if anything at all. I don't even know if the auto-tuning profile is even being applied. SimVibe doesn't even give you any sort of indication of what the auto-tuning is doing, if it's even be applied in the first place. It's extremely non-user friendly in some cases...

Earlier today, Speed Sensitive Volume randomly stopped working until I restarted SimVibe....

Front suspension bumps can have filters added but rear suspension bumps cannot? Ugh...OK??...

SimVibe has lots of potential but it honestly feels very alpha/beta yet it's been out for almost 6 years (Oct 2012 I believe). Can anyone help? Literally 4 days and over 16 hours of my life gone to tune 1 car on 1 track for 1 game and still a ways to go....This literally just makes me want to sell my Buttkicker, amp, and SimVibe and not even simrace at all. Frustrating is an understatement.
 
This literally just makes me want to sell my Buttkicker, amp, and SimVibe and not even simrace at all. Frustrating is an understatement.

Welcome to tactile. This is the reason I am happy with my 2 kicker set up running from a single $100 amp. It is a nightmare with the software that is available today. I did the same thing you did with the testing. It's just the way it is, and SSW is hardly any different. Still needs a LOT of configuring. I've changed my tactile set up and now have to retest SimVibe all over again, too. SSW allows you to create your own files, but if you don't feel like learning a professional audio software program, there is nowhere to tell you HOW to simply create a file suitable for usage with it.
 
Day 4 of tuning, over 16 hours later and I'm still tuning SimVibe for the same game, same car, and same track. What a joke. I had finally found some pretty good settings then SimVibe crashed (not the first time) and lost all my settings.

Does anyone know how the auto-tuning thing works in SimVibe? I do laps and it logs more than 500 samples and then what? Does it create a profile based on that? I don't see a profile created...And my SimVibe settings remain terrible while needing massive adjustments so I don't think the auto-tuning thing is even doing much if anything at all. I don't even know if the auto-tuning profile is even being applied. SimVibe doesn't even give you any sort of indication of what the auto-tuning is doing, if it's even be applied in the first place. It's extremely non-user friendly in some cases...

Earlier today, Speed Sensitive Volume randomly stopped working until I restarted SimVibe....

Front suspension bumps can have filters added but rear suspension bumps cannot? Ugh...OK??...

SimVibe has lots of potential but it honestly feels very alpha/beta yet it's been out for almost 6 years (Oct 2012 I believe). Can anyone help? Literally 4 days and over 16 hours of my life gone to tune 1 car on 1 track for 1 game and still a ways to go....This literally just makes me want to sell my Buttkicker, amp, and SimVibe and not even simrace at all. Frustrating is an understatement.

Good to hear that iam not alone always fine tuning and waiting till all programs function right. Most time iam just doing everything just not simracing. Very frustrating
 
Glad to hear I'm not the only one. The tactile software, currently SimVibe in my case, truly has a ton of potential - I had times when certain things were tuned beautifully, absolutely beautifully - but it's so difficult and time consuming to get right.

I thought driving the laps while SimVibe was logging data would generate some sort of auto-tuned file with all forces adjusted relative to eachother while throwing out all sorts of overly generated "noise" but I can't figure out what it's doing; it doesn't seem to optimize anything for me.

I'm probably just screwing up somewhere because so many people have a ton of praise for it. I'm probably just too much in a rush. I know it'll eventually be worth it.
 
Maybe some users, a satisfied with some small vibration and dont care if its realistic or gives strong feedback. Most Direct wheel users dont even use half of the force.
 
The iNuke NU4 6000 doesn't have dsp but it's perfect otherwise since it's basically a 4-channel version of the iNuke dsp 3000. It also costs less than 2 iNuke dsp 1000s. So it's better in every area: less hardware & space (1 unit instead of 2), more power/channel (1500w vs 1000w), and less expensive (1x nu4 vs 2x dsp 1000)...It's just missing the dsp which sucks :(

Also, do you recommend the tst 239 silver or the buttkicker advance? For only 1 tactile unit (for now), the mini lfe/concert/gamer2 isn't quite cutting it for me when it comes to high frequency effects (70-150+ Hz) although it's definitely strong enough below 60 Hz so I'm looking into either the tst 239 silver or bk advance (not the standard lfe/concert...too big for my current setup).

Its your money and your decision ultimately what you buy friend.
The more upmarket or bigger units have more use with the DSP as they produce more low-end bass. The higher bass frequencies respond less to what it does when used on tactile. It can, however, be used to reduce specfic Hz or even individual Hz that may be causing reverb on a rig. Or has been shown on these forums to control "Piston Pang" on Buttkickers.

For improved higher frequency response you need to look at how/where your tactile is installed. What materials or path does it have to take to reach your body regions it is to be felt in? Higher Hz will likely get absorbed in materials than lower frequencies with more energy.

Different seats and installations make quite a difference.

NU46000
I dont personally see (less hardware space) as a major benefit or (potentially 2 fans to replace) as a major drawback over one. Even if you wanted to do a fan mod to reduce the noise of the amps. I do however see a benefit with two amps, over a single boxed solution with 4 channels because if one amp was to go faulty then you still at least have the other 2 channels still operating compared to none.

The NU4 6000 is designed that it can be used to power huge speakers, either 4 large woofer drivers or 2x large drivers and 2 mid-range by using its own crossover switch at the rear.

What benefit really is its extra power to you, when I doubt you will need more power than a DSP1000 has? Yes, I am aware of the paper specs, but you can go by those, making assumptions or listen to advice of actual owners of DSP 1000/3000/6000 models.


Differences To Typical Amps
Tactile has quite a strong output, from SSW or Simvibe on a decent soundcard.
With iNuke DSP amps you have gain control over (1) INPUT STAGE (via the front dials) of the soundcard. However we also can increase the (2) SIGNAL OUTPUT by upto 12dB via the (DSP Crossover section). It is these combined that determine the output of the amp, not just the knobs on the front of the amps.

So we can increase the output of the soundcard going into the amp and then we can determine what factor of dB is applied to the amps actual output going to the shakers.

It is considered that an increase of:
*3dB is twice the energy / 10dB is twice the perceived volume

Input Distortion
Some soundcards may cause distortion at 100% output.
Also having a "source input" at an excessive level going into an amp is likely going to cause clipping/distortion of the source.

We want to avoid having excessive input gains of a source going into an amp, as it is then going into the amp dirty/distorted. This is something, Michael recently discovered was a large part of his problems with his amp settings.

By having the front knobs at max. As this is basically controlling the PRE-AMP stage which is designed to enable different sources with different output levels to be balanced to the same input level eg: a microphone Vs Guitar. Yet it's not something we need in this scenario as the soundcard outputs should be at the same levels.

The vast majority of iNuke DSP owners will find a 12oclock - 2oclock position on the dials is ideal. If they seek more output energy then we keep the input level at these points but then increase the amps main output level within the DSP crossover.

So what we do is balance the input level and output level gains that neither are excessive but when both are combined they will determine if any clipping is being caused. Behringer add clipping lights on the front to help monitor this but again on a typical stereo amp these are not present. So, for example, someone with an SMSL amp cant tell if the amp is causing clipping to the tactile with their own soundcard level settings and that of the amp's volume. This espically with say a 160w amp powering 100 watt or 50watt shakers. I would estimate that a large portion of people are overpowering their tactile and potentially have distortion issues.

Paper Specs Vs Real World Usage
Now you are welcome to get a BK Advance user with a DSP 1000 to try and configure their amp in the way described above. I doubt they will come back to state they do not have enough wattage/output. Many users prefer to have the 3000 model for the BK Advance or larger Buttkickers to ensure the amp is running well below its own max limits. This can improve the lifespan of the amp.

I found the DSP 6000 was overkill but will use it to power my 2x 2ohm BK Concert.


DSP Software
Software like Peace APO can be used on PC as Emery mentioned, while it is an excellent tool, it isn't in my view as good nor as easy to learn/use as what the Remote Connect software Behringer offer. Peace APO can be more confusing, especially if someone tried to set/control upto 6 channels and some of these with their own settings?
 
Last edited:
Welcome to tactile. This is the reason I am happy with my 2 kicker set up running from a single $100 amp. It is a nightmare with the software that is available today. I did the same thing you did with the testing. It's just the way it is, and SSW is hardly any different. Still needs a LOT of configuring. I've changed my tactile set up and now have to retest SimVibe all over again, too. SSW allows you to create your own files, but if you don't feel like learning a professional audio software program, there is nowhere to tell you HOW to simply create a file suitable for usage with it.


There is nowhere to tell you what all of Simvibe does neither or how to combine settings to suit specific effects. Where are the SimXperience professional made car profiles? They have had 6 years to do something to improve this. Nor do they even have guidelines for specific models of tactile? We can whinge about this over and over but they are not going to change things.

Clearly Andre has talent at making his own software but what experience has he with different tactile or testing/creating effects on different units?

It's up to the community to develop or discover how to create or make effects with either Simvibe or SSW. So we can moan and cry about it or get off or asses and do something positive to improve it. Yet most people will settle for an average tactile sensation and consider it to be fine. Even though they are not close to the true potential it can deliver. Its only a few of us that seem more interested in pushing things further.


Simvibe
Firstly I would ask, can you find for me say half a dozen Simvibe profiles from the community download section that have really impressed you? Or did you find a lot of them the settings were excessive? I would propose that those with tactile installed on the 4 corners of their rigs often use higher gain levels as the tactile energy from their units is leaking to other regions and not just the pedal/seat sections. This is different if a user has a more directly installed tactile. So the settings needed will greatly vary too.

The community marketplace is a flawed idea with no certification process or even with sub-sections for people with different tactile. The key to Simviibe is learning to understand audio better, then to determine how to best use the Hz your own hardware works best with. Finally to have gain settings that then suit your own installation.

Auto Tune Confusion?
Can you tell me what Auto-Tune does and why it makes the alterations it does?
I see people that mention they configure their tactile setup in Simvibe and then run Auto-Tune expecting it to deliver the best for their tactile. Whats even funnier is that some believe it works magic. Simvibe has no way of determining if a user has a $10 Dayton Puc, $50 ADX, $200 Buttkicker or $550 TST unit installed or how all of these have their own performance characteristics and abilities. Not to mention how the units are installed or even where they are installed.

So as a simple question, how can it optimise a tactile unit if it has no way of knowing what is firstly being used or even having paramaters and settings matching the typical performance different units have?

What do people think it is doing as it can alter settings quite a bit. This I know from doing several tests with it and some crazy settings for effects.

I will give you a clue on my assumptions as to what it does and my view is it helps control excessive dB based on the output of combined effects and the setting parameters they use. Yet it has nothing to do with an individual unit being used or attempting to match the settings to represent the capabilities of a specif tactile unit.

Benefits Of Manual Tuning
To do this properly, requires thinking on how to use the frequency range and how to best use the Hz for priority effects and then lesser effects. Yet to also take into account the tactile hardware being used and what its own capabilities are to determine what or how creation of the effects should be tackled.

Basically, people can go crazy with effects settings and adding layers upon layers.
Yet we have to understand what this does to the individual frequencies. As often we find the same Hz are being used by multiple effects. When this happens, the HZ that are repeatedly used have an increase in dB. This is one reason why some effects are then lost to others as too many share similar frequencies or that the ones that are repeatedly used have higher dB.

If so we then detect these more "often used Hz" from the tactile unit than effects with frequencies that are at lower dB. Additionally, we find the used Hz are often the ones the tactile unit will perform with the most energy. This is why the user may continually select them. Yet effects that are then using typically higher frequencies may have less energy and if less used then can potentially will have less dB. Therefore how these are portrayed varies on the tactile unit being used. A unit like a BK which isnt so good with higher frequencies may struggle to bring much detail to limited effects using them.

Heres an example:

For only 1 tactile unit (for now), the mini lfe/concert/gamer2 isn't quite cutting it for me when it comes to high frequency effects (70-150+ Hz) although it's definitely strong enough below 60 Hz so I'm looking into either the tst 239 silver or bk advance (not the standard lfe/concert...too big for my current setup).



I may be wrong but I would assume most Simvibe users have 30-60Hz being used primarily by a lot of effects. Simply because this is the span that will feel best on most common tactile models.

Continually people ignore that one of the important factors of having the improved tactile models is to increase the usable frequency range they can deliver. This not ONLY brings much stronger bass sensation (which most see as their only advantage) but it means the user can EXPAND other effects to be using different frequencies. Therefore not relying on repeatedly using the same time and time again for the effects they choose to use.


Acknowledging The Hardware Being Used
A kicker unit will lack with mid-bass and above. Yet an ADX or TST model will bring more energy to the 60-80HZ regions and above. Yet Simvibe cant tell or is not programmed to operate to specific units. It can only help monitor the output of all the effects and then reduce some settings that are causing possible distortion or excessive dB.

The tactile operate on Hz not via individual effects so, therefore, all the Hz are combined within the "Simvibe Output Mixer" which includes all the the effects per channel being used and the frequencies they will generate. These of course determined by the setting parameters a user inputs for the High/Low or Big Sml values or what effects like textures they also may have included for each individual channel.


So if being more aware of such and planning better how we use the frequency range within the capabilities of the hardware being used. Then doing this will bring not only more variation to the feel of some effects but also help a user detect better when multiple effects are in usage together.

The alternative is a user runs less effects and has better defination with these than running more effects but these feeling more like a jumbled hash of vibrations and no real individual presence.


v5IidSM.png

How low can you go? This can determine the usable range you have from low- strong mid bass frequencies. Not just the potential of having greater low bass energy. With this increased range, a user can space out better the effects they use or what Hz they may incorporate.

Stop and consider for a moment......
Using 30-80Hz (strongest or most detail range with average tactile) is not a large range (50Hz) in frequencies to cram in a pile of different effects.

However being able to use 5-80Hz is now (75Hz) range with good energy or detail. This is then a 50% increase in the range available. Those of you like Anton, stating you don't need more powerful or upmarket tactile, seem to keep missing this important factor regards improved tactile immersion!


This is all relevant to the performing characteristics different tactile models also have. What the user gets in Hz bands will be determined by the ability and character of the unit they use.

For my own goals of pushing the boundaries it is why I also ended up going with a "Dual Role" approach. Yes such is excessive, indeed by all means and I dont talk about it to try and convince others to do it. I share the benefits of what it delivers, in helping to achieve the best low-end range, combined with the best detail in mid-bass. As this is not possible on any single unit on the market regardless of price and also the benefit that such spreads the work-load over two units which can be installed strategically in different locations or to determine their own individual paths the tactile goes.





 
Last edited:
@Mr Latte In your experience tuning tactile as you like, which effect (bumps vs surface texture vs wheel slip vs engine, etc) can be felt best (most accurately) with a couple of BK gamers attached to the frame of a very rigid 8020 rig on soft rubber feet? It seems BK Gamer works OK in 30-60Hz range based on other posts (please correct if you feel this is inaccurate), so I guess I'm asking which effect you have found this range most useful for.

I am planning out my tactile and already own 2 BK gamers. I understand and appreciate your comments about frequency response range and how it opens up room for more effects and more discernible detail.

As such, I am realizing I will likely have to add 1 or 2 much larger units to get the freq range required to feel a decent range of effects. I am trying to map out effects by frequency range so that I can prioritize the effects (based on my own personal preference) to determine my budget for the additional units.

Thank you in advance
 
Man its got more to it than that, if we want specific effects to have priority then we can give them priority over the Hz. Yet we need to understand and look at what effects are also the most active.

In SSW we can determine what Hz we want an effect to have or try to determine the character/sensation it creates. So we can use similar frequencies but still then alter the character of the effect that they feel different. The simple truth is a waveform can contain much more character for an effect and a tactile unit to generate than simple or pure tones.

Really in SSW using.wav there is more potential to finding a sensation we like or want to represent an effect. We can bring a much wider scope in how different types of effects also feel.

Of course Andres single tones do not really differ much or do this as he tends to use @40Hz . This is the strongest Hz on many of the various tactile units under the $100 pricepoint.

With Simvibe a user doesn't really have control over what Hz an effect uses or determining the character it generates in Simvibe. Yeah we can set paramaters but the effect generated will vary within these based on the telemetry what tones it generates. Therefore some settings can be hit/miss

Long Lonely Journey
The point of my own effects building in some regards takes into account how harmonics and 1/3 octaves operate. So within the created waveform that can be built up from multiple layers. Thus it may contain Hz specifically inserted to operate well on the various tactile hardware.

Simvibe nor any tactile solution is trying to do this, to have an effect created that can be catered to work on multiple units. Its experimental as I have not come across anyone else attempt to do this neither.

Those with units that have more capable low end would then get improved bass. As those units are producing more of the available bass range with adequate power. This should with some effects equate to a richer and deeper immersion yet with this idea in the makeup of the waveform also help to cater for the more common units as well.

This is done by inserting harmonically matched tones of the fundamental frequency used. So that for example, a 10Hz lowest frequency used, can be included in the waveform and a big unit generate that while the smaller units cant. Yet by inserting the 2nd, 3rd and possibly 4th harmonic of the 10Hz this being (20Hz), (30Hz) and (40Hz) in the waveform. Then midrange units like the BK Advance, the Clark 329 Gold or the more common affordable units also has its lowest Hz/ energy potential full-filled within the one waveform for the effect.

Doing this, matches how harmonics naturally are generated but with those the dB is always lower with each progressive harmonic. With this approach we add in more dB for the harmonically matched frequencies so the various tactile can use them.

Building effects is very much trial and error. I have reached what I think is a rather decent level for the individual effect "masters" I now have. This is not to say they cannot be improved at a later time. Yet what I wanted to bring was more potential to users and then also give users the ability to alter the "waveforms" for each effect.

This will not require learning how to use Audacity to use the various files I have been generating for the effects. Simply because I am creating 45 variants in dB and Hz for each single effect. Some may not be needed depending on the dB range a user requires. However a user will have 9x varations of each effect with the different dB levels the effect is created in. This lets the user position the main frequencies the effect uses to be higher or lower, to suit the hardware or preference they have.

So the user is not only able to change the dB (strength) of the waveform but also having the ability to increase or decrease the frequencies it contains by +/- 20%. This I believe is placing much more control in the users hands with simple swapping of files in a folder or placing specific files into a "Car Folder" than spending hours tuning at Simvibes settings and sliders.

With what I am doing we should find that the same waveform for an effect can work on two very different units. Yet each unit will require or work best with different sets of the variants provided. We will find that effects that are more focused to mid or higher frequencies may feel better on ADX or TST type transducers and effects more focused on low frequencies will feel better on the larger Buttkicer units. A user with just one make/model wont notice the differences but they should still have plenty of choice to find one of the variants of the effect feels comfortable enough or represents a decent sensation.

If certain effects people find are lacking, then these can be looked at in generating new replacements based on peoples feedback.

Hardware like these below have the sliders with set frequencies for a reason. I believe effects can also operate better if they use the same principles in how audio works. I dont see the same potential with Simvibe in the effects that can be generated to the desired sensation, so I stopped my own testing with it.

Besides that, SSW effects bring much more immersion to what the car is doing with the G-force based effects. Simvibe seems to have multiple bump solutions with little purpose or potential to the cars actual control.

For me engine is secondary to feeling the cars motion via the tactile.
So I place more focus on those effects but later I will share how I will combine audio tactile and seek continue to improve SSW engine effect.

Andre can ignore or consider my recommendation to consider a "speed based effect" for engine to help improve it as Simvibe makes good usage of one. Such is very useful in increasing the immersion in situations of long straights, feeling increased energy/strain building down the straights and then the reduction in speed when braking into slow corners. Imola and Nurburgring last-first corners as examples I really enjoyed having this with Simvibe.

Such would also compliment SSW usage of acceleration G force that fades out at higher speeds depending on the slider setting used.


BdytETc.jpg
 
Last edited:
This is done by inserting harmonically matched tones of the fundamental frequency used. So that for example, a 10Hz lowest frequency used, can be included in the waveform and a big unit generate that while the smaller units cant. Yet by inserting the 2nd, 3rd and possibly 4th harmonic of the 10Hz this being (20Hz), (30Hz) and (40Hz) in the waveform. Then units like the BK Advance, the Clark 329 Gold or a more common unit also has its lowest energy potential full-filled within the one waveform for the effect. Doing this also matches how harmonics naturally are generated but with those the dB is always lower with each progressive harmonic.

So the user is able to change the dB of the waveform and also having the ability to increase or decrease the frequencies it contains by 20%. This I believe is placing much more control in the users hands with simple swapping of files in a folder or placing specific files into a "Car Folder" than spending hours tuning at Simvibes settings and sliders.

With what I am doing we should find that the same waveform for an effect can work on two very different units. Yet each unit will require or work best with different sets of the variants provided. We will find that effects that are more focused to mid or higher frequencies may feel better on ADX or TST type transducers and effects more focused on low frequencies will feel better on the larger Buttkicer units. A user with just one make/model wont notice the differences but they should still have plenty of choice to find one of the variants of the effect feels comfortable enough or represents a decent sensation.

All of this is amazing stuff. Unbelievable work.

For me engine is secondary to feeling the cars motion via the tactile.

100% agree. This is related to my previous post - If bumps / wheel slip / lateral G were my top 3 desired effects/sensations, does it make sense to attempt these with a pair of BK gamers (one under pedals one under seat maybe) and then add 1 or 2 large BK concerts to handle engine/gear change/accel/braking/road surface? Or do people find the BK gamers will get "drowned out" with the use of more powerful tactile elsewhere on the same rig?
 
All of this is amazing stuff. Unbelievable work.



100% agree. This is related to my previous post - If bumps / wheel slip / lateral G were my top 3 desired effects/sensations, does it make sense to attempt these with a pair of BK gamers (one under pedals one under seat maybe) and then add 1 or 2 large BK concerts to handle engine/gear change/accel/braking/road surface? Or do people find the BK gamers will get "drowned out" with the use of more powerful tactile elsewhere on the same rig?

It appears Andre is getting wheel slip to operate on individual wheels. I am not sure what sims may support this but it is a very welcomed upgrade if he can bring it to more than one title.

Bumps / Wheel Slip / Lateral G
These can all be stereo even if at times we will have similar sensations to the L/R sides with bumps or wheel slip. So if these are your favorite effects then I would persue a stereo based configuration. Using identical units and starting with the seat for now if not able to buy 4 right away. Then later add other units for engine etc.

BK Advance seems the most popular choice for power/price.
In my personal view and shared by some others the BK Mini/Gamer isnt a bad little unit but it just cannot bring enough depth or energy to many of the effects.

I have yet to do a proper comparison but will look more into how the BK Concert compares to the larger BK LFE model. To see if the Concert model has any major benifits with mid frequency detailing. Users like Michal if you followed his build have opted for 4x BK Concert and 2x BK Advance so you should seek his own views on each unit as well. Dont just go by my own views or opinions. I normally tell people buy 1 of each unit you are considering then test them to decide for yourself which to buy 4 of.


Maintaining Stereo Purity
You find people saying in a real car bumps transfer from left - right etc so they excuse channel crosstalk in their tactile installations as replicating what a real car scenario does. Yet they have no control over how this happens.

In a simulation, looking at the telemetry, if a left bump is to have energy placed on the opposite side then the telemetry output should also then contain an output for each channel, be this as an example 80% vs 25% energy over the two sides.

Indeed this often happens with many bumps depending on the settings we may have that may help control the sensitivity of what is maintained to one side. I use Road Bumps in SSW with 70-80% Threshold so only larger telemetry values transfer over to the opposite side. This helps improve the stereo sensation but also then lets just the largest/strongest bump sensations operate on both channels with plenty of energy. Its really personal preference but I like to maintain most of my large bump sensations to the correct side the bump is on.

We can then use the new "Road Surface Bumps" to replicate general road bumps feel and these be mono with also a lesser strength effect and with its own faster responding sensation. I believe my newest files for bumps exceeds what I had in Simvibe for general bump sensations now. Since Andre listened for such to be implemented and added the new feature.

Crosstalk
If we are to maintain the accuracy of the telemetry output then within our bulds we should seek to limit/reduce or control the crosstalk that can happen in our pedals or seat across the left/right as this can make effects meant for one side only actually be non directional and felt in both.

Their is not much point having stereo tactile if the crosstalk is happening a lot and effects that should be on one side are felt on both. Of course, trying to prevent this can come with limitations but I see it is a fundamental necessity in my own build to preserve the telemetry output to the channels as best I can and to highlight stereo imaging in my rig to the utmost for increased immersion. If this is done well and with strong tactile it can represent a motion rig, while not moving the user its providing clear and strong effects to the correct sides bringing plenty of sensory feedback but unlike a 2dof seat mover we can also potentially bring this to multiple body regions and not just in the seat.

I will share my own new build soon as I begin to work on the seat section. It has been rather costly to gather all the components/materials it will use. Yet it will highlight how I attempt to get 6 tactile units to operate on a seat and enhance the stereo immersion but also maintain certain effects to a central unit. It wont be like your typical installation...

Maybe within the month I will finally be ready to start it but I am close to having most bits purchased.
 
Last edited:
It appears Andre is getting wheel slip to operate on individual wheels. I am not sure what sims may support this but it is a very welcomed upgrade if he can bring it to more than one title.

Very interesting. I will follow up with Andre.

Bumps / Wheel Slip / Lateral G
These can all be stereo even if at times we will have similar sensations to the L/R sides with bumps or wheel slip. So if these are your favorite effects then I would persue a stereo based configuration. Using identical units and starting with the seat for now if not able to buy 4 right away. Then later add other units for engine etc.

I normally tell people buy 1 of each unit you are considering then test them to decide for yourself which to buy 4 of.

Your advice is greatly appreciated, thank you.

I will share my own new build soon as I begin to work on the seat section. It has been rather costly to gather all the components/materials it will use. Yet it will highlight how I attempt to get 6 tactile units to operate on a seat and enhance the stereo immersion but also maintain certain effects to a central unit. It wont be like your typical installation...

Maybe within the month I will finally be ready to start it but I am close to having most bits purchased.

Looking forward to it!
 
Things have gone rather quiet here as of late. I'm assuming, like myself, you all have been simply racing.

I fell into an evening of testing last night and think I may have come across a... um... layout, I guess, that seems to be really working nicely. I have 2 ADXs mounted under separated heel plates to enhance l/r feedback. I've got an LFE and TST209 mounted under my seat.

First things first: I never really felt a distinct l/r separation up front. I was pretty surprised by this considering the isolation I employed and my particular layout (which I won't go into here). So, last night I decided to assign different feedback to the ADXs which worked out pretty well (I use SSW). One thing that really bugs me is piston pang with the LFE. Something about the noise of hearing that large piston makes me cringe and I envision the piston shooting thru its casing. I've tried things like playing with the waveform, employing a lower than spec peak in my iNuke, decreasing the iNuke volume for my LFE, decreasing SSW gain, etc. I would get to a point where piston pang was virtually eliminated but at the expense of satisfying feedback of bumps. I've been directing the large bumps to the LFE and the Road Surface effects to one of my ADXs. I then had a thought - why not try reversing them? That is what seems to be the magic setup for me. Since Road Surface is more subtle, I had to bump up the gain in my iNuke for the LFE as well as the SSW gain. I'm really liking the feedback I'm getting and with no pang! Now my seat is giving me all this nice more rumbly feedback including kerbs with that big piston providing plenty of energy. Oh, and my ADX is working fine with the bigger bumps right under my heel.

So, here's my current schematic:
  • Left ADX - Road Bumps
  • Right ADX - Wheelslip
  • LFE - Road Surface and rear Wheelslip for R3E
  • TST209 - Gear Shift
I did most of my testing in R3E - my preferred sim - but also tried it in AC and enjoying the feedback. By then it was getting late so I didn't get a chance to try PC2 or iRacing. That should be tonight.
 

Latest News

Online or Offline racing?

  • 100% online racing

    Votes: 74 7.1%
  • 75% online 25% offline

    Votes: 109 10.5%
  • 50% online 50% offline

    Votes: 150 14.5%
  • 25% online 75% offline

    Votes: 286 27.6%
  • 100% offline racing

    Votes: 414 39.9%
  • Something else, explain in comment

    Votes: 4 0.4%
Back
Top