Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Mr Latte]

Tactile is indeed "niche", or to be more specific the number of users that will buy into medium or high-end tactile. Yet I can see that this thread has nearly 30,000 views and the SSW thread has over 36,000.

Based on that I believe "tactile" has quite a bit of interest so it's relevant to make people aware of how "limiting / restricting" regards the immersion or performance the common tactile really are. That dos not mean the affordable solutions cannot impress people or bring them plenty of enjoyment. Also this has nothing to do with prioritising what a user should buy into first or in some way try to assume a user should spend xxxx on tactile before other components.

Some may indeed consider their tactile to be a "minor finishing touch" to the sim rigs they have. This, however, does not change the fact that the immersion your/their rig brings, cannot still be greatly improved with better tactile and with research/testing towards improved effects. As these can complement the immersion greatly on a static rig, or indeed the motion some expensive rigs people have are centered around.

I suppose it depends, what we assume upgrading from the entry level tactile to the best hardware offers. If indeed it only brings a "minor" improvement or a substantial one.

My advice would be, buy into more expensive tactile if you want an improved tactile experience. One that can bring much-improved immersion, enhanced energy/depth and control. To greatly increase the various effects and sensations tactile as a source of immersion/entertainment can offer.

 

[Beef36]

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[Michal Burisin]

Has anyone tried rFactor 2 new's Endurance Pack? The Porsche 911 RSR turns my sim rig into a buzzbox above 8,600rpm.

D-Box power is set to 81% and engine vibration is only at 21 out of 40, yet the camera starts to vibrate as the Porsche's revs approach the red line, even though the camera tripod is floor mounted and detached from sim rig.

My Buttkickers have no impact here as SimVibe only sets them to activate on gear changes.

Normally my tactile platform is set to be tame & subtle but even at those settings, this Porsche 911 RSR is a beast!

A bit offtopic, nice rig!

What is that rim? Is it commercially available or custom job?

 

[anton_Chez]

So I've had a go at editing the SSW files in Audacity, to see if I can alter them to fit the Mini LFE's a little better. It's quite confusing. I have been able to get some things to work, but I am struggling to actually edit the existing file and also find out its properties. One thing I have been able to do (pretty much the only thing) is use Generate, Tone, and then enter the frequency and amplitude. That works but it changes the entire effect, and also the window never initially shows the value of the file, it only stays at the last thing that you changed. Basically it looks like I am generating generic tones with none of the character of the old tone.

Anything I am missing or doing wrong? Or am I misunderstanding how the program works? All I want is to change the existing frequency to something that feels better for my units. Even doing it this way, I have been able to achieve a much more satisfying braking downforce feeling without any rattle or knocking on the Mini.

 

[Mr Latte]

So I've had a go at editing the SSW files in Audacity, to see if I can alter them to fit the Mini LFE's a little better. It's quite confusing. I have been able to get some things to work, but I am struggling to actually edit the existing file and also find out its properties. One thing I have been able to do (pretty much the only thing) is use Generate, Tone, and then enter the frequency and amplitude. That works but it changes the entire effect, and also the window never initially shows the value of the file, it only stays at the last thing that you changed. Basically it looks like I am generating generic tones with none of the character of the old tone.

Anything I am missing or doing wrong? Or am I misunderstanding how the program works? All I want is to change the existing frequency to something that feels better for my units. Even doing it this way, I have been able to achieve a much more satisfying braking downforce feeling without any rattle or knocking on the Mini.

His guide covers basic functions, so you really should ask him to advise you on what would work well with the tactile units you own and this problem you have. I think you placed this question in the wrong thread as it is clear, where "SSW Support" questions should be asked and dealt with.

You can, however, find more guides for Audacity on the internet or possibly on Youtube to show you more of its functionality. Or if you find it easier you can click the "Help" button in Audacity for a full manual.

 

[anton_Chez]

I was going to post it there but wasn't sure if it really related to support for SSW. There's enough genuine requests there as it is.

Anyway...

 

[Mr Latte]

Has anyone tried rFactor 2 new's Endurance Pack? The Porsche 911 RSR turns my sim rig into a buzzbox above 8,600rpm.

D-Box power is set to 81% and engine vibration is only at 21 out of 40, yet the camera starts to vibrate as the Porsche's revs approach the red line, even though the camera tripod is floor mounted and detached from sim rig.

My Buttkickers have no impact here as SimVibe only sets them to activate on gear changes.

Normally my tactile platform is set to be tame & subtle but even at those settings, this Porsche 911 RSR is a beast!

Seems then the vibrations from your d-Box are going into the floor affecting the camera tripod.

Curious, on the engine settings the d-Box shows. Telemetry can in most titles detect the cars max RPM but I'm not sure about actual the "Redline" limits that will vary on different cars. Simvibe/SSW allow the user to set an RPM % that will match the redline to have a specific effect sensation for that and vary from the normal engine sensation.

Purely out of curiosity, can you give more info on the "Low RPM" setting and "Engine Type" selections in the screen you shared, regards how these operate and the options they offer.

 

[Spinelli]

Got the Buttkicker Gamer 2 setup on my Next Level Motion v3 and only tried it with Automobilista so far and I'm very disappointed. It feels more like a strong message than actual bumps. It feels....gimmicky.

Some curbs feel decently sharp and defined which is pretty good but the vast majority of track bumps feel like generic strong vibrations as if I'm just getting a massage from a pretty strong massage chair.

Very disappointing.

Some bumps oddly don't even get a response such as the big bump when entering Turn 1 at Buenos Aires #9 in AMS (using F301) while other times I feel strong bumps even though there doesn't seem to be any bumps.

I'm also not getting any of that micro road noise. The buttkicker is basically just off until I feel those generic bumps here and there. I thought the Buttkicker was going to give me all sorts of road noise - all sorts of grainy, frictiony, high frequency, rough, road noise which is supposed to "fill out the gaps" of the NLM v3??? I'm getting not even anything close to that.

I'm using SimShaker Wheels by the way. I couldn't use the built-in NLM v3 software since they oddly don't have tactile for any ISI engine based games besides PCars and R3E. Maybe I should try SimVibe?

 

[Beef36]

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[Mr Latte]

@Beef36
So........
1x Simvibe $89 / 1x iNuke DSP 3000 Amp $280 / 2x BK Advance $400
Approx $800 value by the time cables etc are considered.

All that, for being used, just for gear-changes?
Thats just nuts man.....

 

[Beef36]

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[anton_Chez]

Of course, that's like $5 per gear change per race......

 

[Mr Latte]

Got the Buttkicker Gamer 2 setup on my Next Level Motion v3 and only tried it with Automobilista so far and I'm very disappointed. It feels more like a strong message than actual bumps. It feels....gimmicky.

Some curbs feel decently sharp and defined which is pretty good but the vast majority of track bumps feel like generic strong vibrations as if I'm just getting a massage from a pretty strong massage chair.

Very disappointing.

Some bumps oddly don't even get a response such as the big bump when entering Turn 1 at Buenos Aires #9 in AMS (using F301) while other times I feel strong bumps even though there doesn't seem to be any bumps.

I'm also not getting any of that micro road noise. The buttkicker is basically just off until I feel those generic bumps here and there. I thought the Buttkicker was going to give me all sorts of road noise - all sorts of grainy, frictiony, high frequency, rough, road noise which is supposed to "fill out the gaps" of the NLM v3??? I'm getting not even anything close to that.

I'm using SimShaker Wheels by the way. I couldn't use the built-in NLM v3 software since they oddly don't have tactile for any ISI engine based games besides PCars and R3E. Maybe I should try SimVibe?

Report it in the SSW thread please.
Personally, speaking only for myself here in this thread. I am no longer taking anything more to do with peoples issues regards the software in trying to help them. Its best Andre deals with his own customers directly in the thread he created.

You will find however a common trait that the developers of most "Tactile Software" actually do very little regards offering more than just basic effects. Nor do they put much if any effort into trying to achieve settings/effects that can operate well for specific tactile models. It is unlikely they even fully test or develop their software on more than one/make/model of tactile unit. This applies to SimVibe, SSW and others.

Another common factor is a lack of tutorials or anything about creating "better effects" or how settings may alter the tactiles output. As for individual profiles in using with different sims or individual cars. Yes, we can, by all means, have a car in a sim produce very different sensations to another. We can with SSW place custom created effect files into "car folders" but they do not already come with different effect files friend. Any discussion of such in my own part or to get the developer to even add in the "car folder" option is for custom effects users can create themselves.


As for some bumps in titles they must have telemetry data to produce a sensation. Some track elements will not, however. You can verify this with SSW, just select only an individual effect if you want and reset the log to then view the log when you go over a specific track bump to see if the log registers a response. If the log registers a response then you should feel whatever effect number is called.

You can look at individual effects responses in the log if you want but road and surface bumps are the two main obvious ones to monitor.

 

[Spinelli]

I just bought SimVibe and of course Sim Commander which comes with it...When I try to launch Automobilista from Sim Commander, something very weird happens. The first time I did this, the game brought me to the first-time graphics setup screen. After that, the game loaded and I got the in-game player profile setup screen asking me to enter/create a player profile, name, etc. It gets worse. While trying to enter in a player name, the game will freeze and I can't type or click anything and need to ctr-alt-delete and close the game down from there.

I already have AMS installed and already have a player profile for a while now. When I start AMS without Sim Commander, it works and works normal (my usual player profile).

When starting AMS from Sim Commander, it's as if Sim Commander is running off a different install of the game but I made sure to point to the correct AMS.EXE. In fact, I even manually opened AMS from that very EXE itself and the game runs fine, it's only when I try from Sim Commander that the problems happen.

Does anyone here have any advice?


UPDATE:
I think I know what's going on because I was finally able to get AMS to create a new profile. When AMS starts via Sim Commander, it's using the player profile in the AMS install directory as that's where my new player profile (named "SimVibe") got created, however, that's not the directory the game normally uses for player profiles, graphics options, etc. The game uses the computer's "documents" directory for that stuff.

How is basic functionality of AMS changing just because it's getting launched via Sim Commander? Is Sim Commander somehow editing the game's EXE?

How do I change this behavior so that AMS, when launched via Sim Commander, acts normal?

 

[Spinelli]

I downloaded SimShaker Wheels and noticed I had hardly any bumps or "road noise" in AMS. Only curbs were being felt...I thought the problem was with SimShaker Wheels so I bought SimVibe and I'm having the exact same problem, there are hardly any bumps or road noise being felt.

There is a big bump on the entry of turn 1 at Buenos Aires #9 and this is not felt at all, not the slightest. This is extremely messed up.

I'm starting to think there's an issue with AMS and not the tactile software because the same lack of bumps and road noise is happening with, both, SimShaker Wheels and SimVibe.

What's going on???

 

[asteroulis]

It could be indeed that AMS's telemetry is not giving so strong bump indeed. Turn everything off except bumps (simvibe has loads of effects that translate to bumps) and start noticing how it behaves. Also try with other titles to compare.

 

[Spinelli]

It could be indeed that AMS's telemetry is not giving so strong bump indeed. Turn everything off except bumps (simvibe has loads of effects that translate to bumps) and start noticing how it behaves. Also try with other titles to compare.

I have done this. There are no bumps being outputted.

If enabled, I can get big jolts from gear shifts and I can use engine revs as well (which, by the way, suck as the Buttkicker Gamer is barely felt above 70 or so Hz) but there's basically no road noise or bumps. I tried extension as well as chassis mode. In chassis mode, I should be getting output from the front-left suspension but there's literally no feedback, none. Only gear shifts and engine revs actually output feedback.

What is the issue here? How could SimShaker Wheels and SimVibe both have the same problem? If they're simply reading off the "raw" telemetry of the physics engine, then how are 99% of bumps and road noise not being outputted? This makes no sense...

 

[Spinelli]

OK, I was just about to make a video showing how no bumps were coming through (only engine revs and shifts working) and then it started working. It was probably the 10th time I opened AMS before it started working. Weird.

Bumps still don't feel like bumps though. If I drove over a big bump, I expect a hard thump to hit me...A single, strong thump...Instead, the Buttkicker is still outputting multiple hits at a certain frequency.

Why would a single bump in the game - what should be a single "thump" from the transducer - be outputted with a bunch of bumps at "x" frequency? This, to me, tells me this system is not truly following game physics. A single thump in the road should be a single thump from the transducer, not a barrage of bumps at "x' frequency.

Also, the dynamic range isn't good. The big bump at the entrance to turn 1 barely outputs anymore power from the transducer than lighter bumps. I made sure to turn down the amp so it's not clipping.

The forces should all be scaled relative to one-another. It's just like the NLM v3, forces aren't even scaled relative to one another (in terms of g-forces). The hardware should be capable of it but that's not how it's behaving. It's all behaving like a gimmick...

 

[Spinelli]

It's getting a little better. I just discovered that you can add more types of effects than what's listed. I still can't get bumps scaled to one another though

I'm trying to feel a big bump @ turn 1 w/ the F301 @ Buenos Aires #9 in Automobilista. I've tried the following individually and all at once but failed:
- road bumps
- road texture
- front suspension bumps
- front suspension surges
- vertical surges
- vertical texture

You can visually see the car hitting a big bump at the entrance of turn 1 (BA #9) but you don't get a big kick from the transducer yet, at other corners with way smaller bumps and going 1/4th the speed, you get big kicks from the transducer. It makes no sense...


P.S. on the brighter side, "engine vibration w/ harmonics & load" and "engine RPM quad stream" are so cool and way better than the default "engine vibration."

 

[Spinelli]

How important is the Behringer DSP? I'm asking because the Behringer iNuke NU4-6000 seems like a great amp for 4 buttkickers for chassis mode since u need all the buttkickers on a seperate channel. The problem is, the iNuke NU4-6000 doesn't have the DSP feature