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T300 SUPERB FFB SETTINGS 2020 (with CM)

RobPhoboS

Premium
Definitely not.
The manufacturers aren't as stupid as putting non linear ffb motors into their bases... At least for me, driving in ac on the circle pit of the track "skidpad" felt very linear with all wheels (dfgt, g27, t300, ts-pc and csw 2.5), while using what wheelcheck created always felt super weird...

My LUTs are only a smoother minimum force slider.
I'd say if you're using/needing more than 3% minimum force to get a tight ffb around the center, then a LUT is useful as the notch from the too cut off minimum force becomes feelable.

I had a few mins to just test out a few things but time slipped away !
This is what I last set my TX to (which I think is similar to the T300):

TX_FFB_01.jpg
TX_FFB_02.jpg
 

RasmusP

Premium
I had a few mins to just test out a few things but time slipped away !
This is what I last set my TX to (which I think is similar to the T300):

View attachment 440043 View attachment 440044
Yep, TX and t300 are basically the same base as far as I know!
Settings are looking perfect.
You could disable the post processing, 100% gamma doesn't do anything.

And I would personally disable the experimental hardware lock.
As far as I know it changes the rotation in the driver of the wheelbase on the fly to match the simulated car.
You get the nice lock but changing the degrees in the wheelbase compresses the ffb.

I'm not sure how it works exactly but I never really missed the lock and I rather keep things simple without some strange auto adjusting in the background.

It shouldn't be a problem without any lut and with only 2.9% minimum force though.

With the Logitech wheels and my luts that are like 17% minimum force, it would change how the lut is optimized for 900° and 100% in the base.
 

RobPhoboS

Premium
Great that's really good to hear and learn about too !
I haven't played with the minimum force, so it may not really be required at all. Easy enough to test.

Lastly, which I should have mentioned, my TM win settings are what everyone else uses, just with a little FFB reduced, and fans always on (never had overheating).
I was using FFBClip too, and after reading a little more from your replies I understood what you meant about Dynamic but I wasn't sure if using FFBClip was a good idea or not ?

I'm also trying to work out if it's the Road Effect causing some of those strange feelings in FFB you get driving over certain parts of the track. So I'm adjusting that setting too, as it was very noticeable after changing my previous settings to these ones I posted above.

Thanks again for your contributions :thumbsup:

Although a different game, I have to say the FFB script written by PopsRacer in PC2 is excellent btw. I'm not sure if you play it or not but I really love what those guys did (as I believe its a combination of people really).
 

RasmusP

Premium
Lastly, which I should have mentioned, my TM win settings are what everyone else uses, just with a little FFB reduced, and fans always on (never had overheating).
I was using FFBClip too, and after reading a little more from your replies I understood what you meant about Dynamic but I wasn't sure if using FFBClip was a good idea or not ?
What do you mean with "everyone else"?
Forced fan is good if you can live with the noise.

I wouldn't use ffb clip. As long as you don't use more than 100% in-car gain and 100% general game gain, the amount of clipping is fine.
Below that is "better" but only as long as you have enough ffb to feel enough!

So imo there's no need for ffbclip. It's a nice tool to see how much clipping you're actually getting but once you've checked things out, I would uninstall it.
What you otherwise end up with is every car at the same strength, which isn't very immersive...
Just use whatever feels nice for you but keep it below 100% and you're good.
I'm also trying to work out if it's the Road Effect causing some of those strange feelings in FFB you get driving over certain parts of the track. So I'm adjusting that setting too, as it was very noticeable after changing my previous settings to these ones I posted above.
Road effect is only sine wave vibration. It's like sand in the ffb motor haha.
A little bit is nice, too much is just noise..
What certain parts are we talking about btw? Can you specify one spot on a specific track?
Although a different game, I have to say the FFB script written by PopsRacer in PC2 is excellent btw. I'm not sure if you play it or not but I really love what those guys did (as I believe its a combination of people really).
I only drive online in the racedepartment club races so mostly rf2 gt3 and assetto corsa.
I tested pcars2 for the 2 hours and then got a refund. I don't really like the graphics (in theory it's awesome but for me everything looks like made from rubber/plastic) and it didn't feel great enough to keep it.

But I've read lots of praise for a few ffb mods! The physics engine is good in pcars2 so I totally believe that a better mixed ffb can work wonders!
 
Hi, just thought I'd comment and clear a few things up.
Don't take it as negative feedback please! If your settings feel great, they are great. Simple as that!

However when I researched a lot to get a better ffb with my G27, I've learnt a lot of stuff and I've read so much wrong information on the internet.
So I really appreciate your work here! Awesome to see someone doing a well written guide.

But I think you might've gotten a few things wrong or slightly incorrectly. And maybe there's room for improvement!

Before my long post:
I've owned a 200° TM ffb wheel from 2002 until 2014, didn't really drive much with it though.. Grand Prix 3, Need for Speed Porsche and a few other Need for Speeds.

Then bought a G27 for Project Cars in 2014, a good friend bough a DFGT in 2016.
In 2019 I first bought a TS-PC that had coil whine so I replaced it but that was even worse... Drove a lot with it in the 2 weeks I had it though.

Then bought a CSW 2.5 while one friend bought a CSL Elite and another one bought a T300RS.
Of course I tried them thoroughly.


Spring ffb channel is not used by any modern game so 0% or 100% don't matter at all.
75% are the default from Thrustmaster, right? So I guess since hearing a few stories about overheating T300's, leaving it at 75% might be good.
However you could put the overall strength to 100% (which is 33% more than 75%) and then lower the gain in the game about 33%. You'd have the same average strength but would gain headroom for peaks.
If it would feel better or be worse for the wheel, no idea. Just a theoretical thought as the game's gain sits before the "clipping limiter" and the wheel base strength slider behind the clipping limiter.

Some slight min force: yep, I like that too. Using 1.5% on my csw 2.5.

Kerb: wow! Not sure if you know that Kerbs are actually 3D models with accurate ffb through the physics engine? This kerb effect simply shoots a sine wave into your wheel, whenever the surface.ini in the track says "you're on a kerb type surface".
I'm personally using 1% to get some slight vibration when I'm running across "pain only" kerbs. Simply to know the track limits and that the outside wheel might have a little less grip.
The left/right sine wave might feel like the car is really at the limit and going wild, while you're only driving across some "kerb paint".

Road: that's a lot of vibration, however I like it too. For me it hides too many details so I'm using only about 5%. It's a sine wave like the kerb effect, but it actually changes its frequency, depending on which surface type you're on. So when the tarmac colour changes, you'll get a different vibration.
Good for immersion but at 125% you're having a really high base level of vibrations all the time... Definitely hides a lot of details.

Slip and ABS: I love them for the additional feedback you'd normally get through your feet and body.
But why such high levels? My wheel is rattling a lot even at only 20% for both. With my G27 I only needed 20-30% to get a lot of rattling.
I guess you need them that high to feel anything from it due to the massive road effects?
Do you feel the tyres at all under braking if you're hitting the abs? Honest question.. I tried your effects-levels and my wheel is just a "shaking something"...

This might've come across a bit harsh towards you, sorry if that's the case! It's of course down to your personal liking but I really don't feel any details from the tyres anymore with it and everything is just vibrating like crazy :x3:


Gyro is definitely nice! However the new Gyro from the ffb-tweaks section of CSP does it a lot better.
What it does:
The faster your front tyres spin, the more your wheel will have a bit of inertia/damping against turning.
However the standard gyro also gives this damping, when you're drifting.
But when you're drifting, the front tyres actually stay straight on the road, the rear is rotating around them and therefore your steeringwheel is turning "into opposite lock" on it's own.
But the front tyres stay straight on the road. The steering wheel is only compensating for the rear rotation.

The ffb tweaks gyro fixes this! It gives the damping/intertia physically more correctly. When you're drifting or losing the rear, the steering wheel will turn really quickly, as the inertia of the spinning and still pointing straight fron tyres will actually force the steering wheel to spin more quickly into opposite lock.

For me this is a big difference when racing and catching a slide!

Damper_Min_level: Why do you use this? I find the T300 and also TS-PC to be quite "stiff" and already damped enough. When you try to "throw" the wheel, it will come to stand still pretty soon.
If you think that this damper min level is needed for the gyro to work: It's not. The Gyro is part of the main ffb channel, nothing to do with the damper channel.
At least this was told to me from very knowledgeable modders that worked on the physics of great mods.
Iirc it was "Stereo", who also created the "ffb tweaks" from CSP.

So if you have this active for the Gyro to be active, then put it to 0.00.
If you have it active to actually get a more damped wheel while driving:
Why? I think Thrustmaster wheels are damped enough.


Gamma at "1" is just the default ffb. It shapes the ffb into a curve. Values below 1.0 will make the difference between lower forces bigger and the difference between higher forces lower. Your wheel will feel beefier, stronger. But you won't feel nuances close to 100% ffb as good as without gamma.
Values above 1.0 do the opposite. Your wheel will feel weak but you'll feel the nuances at the limit more pronounced.
On my G27, 0.8 felt great, for example. Faking it to feel a bit stronger than it actually was.

So you have it at 1.0, which does just nothing.

The new "range compression" in the "ffb tweaks" is doing something similar to the gamma setting but supposedly better. Instead of just mixing the default ffb with a pre-defined smooth curve, it's actually doing something "intelligent", like a dynamic compressor for audio levels.
I don't use it so I didn't really read into this but in the creator's thread, you can find more information.


That's a nice tweaking for the dynamic mode of FFB clip.
I'm personally against the dynamic mode from ffb clip and also against ffb clip in general, but I tried your settings and they feel very nice!

Why I'm against it:
1. Kunos developed the cars to have "some okayish level of clipping when using 100% gain in the menu and in the cars".
So when you're just keeping one of the gains (mostly the menu) below 100% and never set the per-car-gain with the numpad while on track to more than 100%, the amount of clipping will always be "fine".
If you use ffb clip in the normal modes (no dynamic), you will have the same strength for every car. More or less, they will still feel differently since you have different physics but you won't have the immersion of cars being a lot stronger or weaker.
Modern F1 = old F1. But in reality they were a lot different!

If you'd be using a Logitech wheel with my LUTs against the deadzone, this would be different. With a weak wheel like the G27, you always want the maximum available strength and dynamic range of what the wheel motors can output.
However there's always one value of gain for each car, where the deadzone will feel perfect, without a notch (too high gain) or a "hole" (too low gain).
FFB clip can't perfectly find this sweetspot so I always recommend to try to find it manually while driving.

2. Dynamic mode is bad!:
Why: You lose the muscle memory to really learn the car's behaviour. With a weaker wheel this isn't such a big deal but for example with the CSW 2.5 you can really feel how the aero of a formula car becomes active at higher speeds. The wheel will be quite soft at lower speeds but as soon as you go down a straight, the wheel will become super strong!
I really noticed this when first driving the Nordschleife in the Lambo GT3 with the CSW after upgrading from my G27.
I became 4 seconds faster, just because I could feel the increased grip from the car's aerodynamic through the fastest corners.
With dynamic mode on, everything will almost have the same strength so no muscle memory is built for car control.

Although if you don't care about getting really fast and consistent and just want to drive casually for your own enjoyment without competition:
Dynamic mode is very awesome!

Now with my explanations, I'd suggest you put the damper_min_level to 0.00, deactivate the gyro, disable ffb post processing.
Then activate the ffb tweaks, enable the "Basic" extension, activate the "physically accurate gyro", leave the strength at 25% and leave the "Range compression" at the default of 100%.
This should not feel worse than your current settings! It just leaves your "not doing anything" Gamma value of 1.0 as it is and switches the Gyro for a better Gyro.
View attachment 437742

Don't feel pressured to change your settings! If it feels great right now, then great!
I just wanted to give my input, since after my looooong research, I feel the need to use my gained knowledge to be some kind of FFB-hearsay-correction-warrior :roflmao::speechless:

Again: don't take this with a grain of salt and please don't feel critized in a bad way!
When explaining or correcting something in English, it's very difficult to get to the point without sounding "unfriendly".

I hope this was somewhat helpful for your or someone else that finds this thread and maybe when you got some time to spend, you gonna try my suggestions :)

I love these settings, thank you so much!
 

maxilogan

Premium
Thank you @RasmusP and @Tassos for this examination and suggestions. I have a question, though: I had 70% gain on both the TM control panel settings and in AC, so I decided to increase the gain in game to 100%, and follow other suggestions related to gamma, post processing etc.
I still have to get used to it, but I noticed that in a couple of occasions I had an orange warning appearing on Sidekick stating that I should consider decreasing the FFB gain. What is it due to? Should I swap the two gains (TM control panel and in-game) as suggested? It seemed to me that it was basically the same thing, or quite close.

I never saw such a warning before.
 
I didnt had the time to test any of Erasmus suggestions (im very busy with work :)), but I would suggest you to keep the TM gain at 75, to avoid burning your motor. Now the AC gain is up to you, for me above 80% with my settings gets very violent and hard, but it is personal liking......
 

RasmusP

Premium
Thank you @RasmusP and @Tassos for this examination and suggestions. I have a question, though: I had 70% gain on both the TM control panel settings and in AC, so I decided to increase the gain in game to 100%, and follow other suggestions related to gamma, post processing etc.
I still have to get used to it, but I noticed that in a couple of occasions I had an orange warning appearing on Sidekick stating that I should consider decreasing the FFB gain. What is it due to? Should I swap the two gains (TM control panel and in-game) as suggested? It seemed to me that it was basically the same thing, or quite close.

I never saw such a warning before.
Note before the replay: I would keep the TM gain at default to not cause your motor to overheat or damage itself. For some reason Thrustmaster puts the default to below 100%.. For Logitech and Fanatec, the default is 100%...

Now the reply:

Afaik 100% gain in game shouldn't cause this warning on Kunos cars. You get some clipping with it but it's not "bad". Just "unnecessary spikes" are going to get clipped off, not the normal cornering forces in most cases.

What is your in-car-gain set to? (Numpad + and - or the ffb app while in the car)? That might be above 100%?

The two gains go together into the clipping meter. So 50% * 50% = 25% final ffb. 100% * 150% = 150% -> clipping

About wheel gain vs game gain:
The wheel gain does 2 things:
1. scaling all ffb
2. cutting off the maximum output

So 100% game and 70% wheel will result in exactly the same AVERAGE force output to your hands like 70% game and 100% wheel would.

BUT the game always clips at 100% game gain.

So at 70% game gain, hitting a tree will still give you a 100% spike.

(hitting a tree will probably give a 300% internal spike, which gets clipped off at 100%. The difference is that at 100% game gain it will internally be 300% and with 70% game gain it will internally be 300*0.7 = 210%).


Meanwhile when you use 70% in the wheel, the tree spike will be cut off at 70% ffb motor output.


Imagine this like plugging your phone to a hi-fi stereo (or whatever but play audio over some speaker).

Game gain = Phone volume setting
Wheel gain = Speaker volume setting

While you're inside a good working range, it won't matter if you set one higher and the other one lower. Always the same final volume for your ears.

But imagine you have the phone very very low and quiet and the hi-fi stereo at the absolute maximum and then someone rips the cable out of your phone and every goes deaf :roflmao:


Conclusion: with the wheel settings and the game gain, you dial in the dynamic range of the ffb, alongside the average force output.

Most people want the highest dynamic possible to feel things better. At some point it will be difficult to maintain the control though. Like a DD wheel breaking your wrists when you have a crash.

For example:
I'm using 60% game gain in Assetto Corsa with GT3 cars and 65% in my Fanatec CSW 2.5, which is 65% * 8 Nm = 5.2 Nm maximum output and clipping happens when I hit a sausage kerb but not during any normal cornering on the tarmac.
 
Last edited:

maxilogan

Premium
I didnt had the time to test any of Erasmus suggestions (im very busy with work :)), but I would suggest you to keep the TM gain at 75, to avoid burning your motor. Now the AC gain is up to you, for me above 80% with my settings gets very violent and hard, but it is personal liking......

The TM is already at 75, I just raised the AC one to 100 which seemed feasible as I was actually running at 75x75 = 57% of the total power of the wheel. The thing that I can't understand is why Sidekick is giving me that warning. On the other hand, PC2 running on the same computer seems to have a more powerful feedback (but I play very seldom just for the online, though since I started doing club races here).
However I'll turn it back down to about 80-85% and see if anything changes.
 

maxilogan

Premium
What is your in-car-gain set to? (Numpad + and - or the ffb app while in the car)? That might be above 100%?

I never ever thought it was adjustable car-per-car. I'll have a look at it. The warning appeared in both the Mini we used for the Road Atlanta race on Monday (which is a mod) and the McLaren 650S (Kunos) I used yesterday evening for an online lobby race. I'll try other settings in the next few days and will let you know if I manage to solve it.

Thank you both!
 

RasmusP

Premium
I never ever thought it was adjustable car-per-car. I'll have a look at it. The warning appeared in both the Mini we used for the Road Atlanta race on Monday (which is a mod) and the McLaren 650S (Kunos) I used yesterday evening for an online lobby race. I'll try other settings in the next few days and will let you know if I manage to solve it.

Thank you both!
Yep.. There's a file in your documents\assetto where every car + track gets saved!
So you can set the ffb gain for each car, for each track!

the FFB Clip app uses that file btw. I have it installed to sometimes check the ffb graph. For new car+track combos it resets into "auto" mode and starts with the per-car-gain at 200%... 2 corners later and it's around 100% :roflmao:
 

RasmusP

Premium
Since you won't get a new notification when editing the post:
Here's the file, just had a quick look :)

C:\Users\Rasmus\Documents\Assetto Corsa\cfg\user_ff.ini
 
Great that's really good to hear and learn about too !
I haven't played with the minimum force, so it may not really be required at all. Easy enough to test.

Lastly, which I should have mentioned, my TM win settings are what everyone else uses, just with a little FFB reduced, and fans always on (never had overheating).
I was using FFBClip too, and after reading a little more from your replies I understood what you meant about Dynamic but I wasn't sure if using FFBClip was a good idea or not ?

I'm also trying to work out if it's the Road Effect causing some of those strange feelings in FFB you get driving over certain parts of the track. So I'm adjusting that setting too, as it was very noticeable after changing my previous settings to these ones I posted above.

Thanks again for your contributions :thumbsup:

Although a different game, I have to say the FFB script written by PopsRacer in PC2 is excellent btw. I'm not sure if you play it or not but I really love what those guys did (as I believe its a combination of people really).

What are your Win10 Thrusmaster profiler settings please? Thanks!
 

Rastoupine

Premium
Hello, i followed a bit the topic i'm not that good in english so i red a bit between the lines.

I don't get something, i have TX Wheel Leather Edition, do i have to use LUTGenerator/Wheelcheck + FFBGain ?

I'm actually using a generated LUT with FFBgain at 85-90% (Dynamic ON) for racing and drifting.

I was based on those infos https://www.briankoponen.com/assetto-corsa-thrustmaster-tmx-t150-settings/ (what do you think about btw)

Here are my settings what do you think about ?

AC-Controls-Settings.png



TX-Racing-Settings.png


I would like to get the most realistic feeling experience.

As i have understood FFBClip if used should be at 75 - 90% for racing, 35 - 45% for drifting ?

Thanks in advance.
 
Last edited:
Hey mate, my settings are posted at the beginning of the post. All the rest are just discussions / opinions / etc.
My settings do not include LUTGenerator & Wheelcheck. So, I cant comment on your pic above because I havent tested such settings and I never tested the LUT thing.
Please test them initially as they are posted and then use them as a base and start to experiment..
Then you can find other settings to test and decide yourself what you like more. It is all about what you feel in your hands and makes you happier
 

Rastoupine

Premium
All the fake effects are wayyy too powerful for me and my TX Wheel its unhandleable to me. I reduced everything to

- 8 % Kerb
- 8 % Road
- 17% Slip
- 20% ABS

Just as someone posted it earlier. Way better
 

RasmusP

Premium
Well... They aren't completely wrong, but he has quite a few errors in there..

1. He explains the Spring ffb channel perfectly and why he leaves it at 100% (default). He says something like this:
"The channel alone doesn't do anything. Only if a game uses this ffb channel, it will do something. So it's probably intended then and good to keep the slider at defaults".
He then goes on and says that the damper ffb channel would ALWAYS dampen the ffb, which is wrong, as he explained it about the spring ffb channel...

2. Then he explains why clipping would be bad and uses audio signals for a comparison, which he explains incorrectly, same for the dynamic mode from ffb clip.

I would correct his comparison to:
- ffb clipping is nothing like audio signals, since it's not a wave form that can be distorted. When ffb is clipping, the directional part of the ffb is still completely there, but the STRENGTH of the ffb will stay the same.
So you still feel what the car is doing (oversteering = the wheel running into opposite lock) but you won't feel the difference in grip anymore.

- ffb clip dynamic mode is not like a compressor (that would mean ffb gain changes 10-100x per SECOND). It's rather an automated volume fader that always keeps the volume at a good level.
You know the issue of watching a movie on your TV and the speech is too quiet and all the music and action scenes are way too loud? Dynamic mode from FFB clip is you changing the volume from scene to scene on your remote.

----------------------------------------

About your generated LUT: it looks awful. You basically have the default ffb, just lowered in gain (almost straight line until 95% gain) and then the gain shoots up to 100%.
So you have a lower strength in your wheel until a force gets really close to 100%, then the wheel will become a LOT stronger although the ffb just barely increases.

About generated LUTs in general:
Do you really think "throwing" your wheel with different strength and then measuring how far it turned on its own is an accurate method to decide if the motor increases in strength in a linear way?
To make this accurate, the resistance of the wheelbase would need to be completely linear across different "throw speeds" too.

But I highly doubt this... Linear ffb is about the motor increasing smoothly in strength when you HOLD THE WHEEL TIGHT. It has nothing to do with wheel throw...


----------------------------------------

About T300 settings:
First post and my long post are what you should try. Two very good settings completely listed and explained :)
 

Rastoupine

Premium
Well... They aren't completely wrong, but he has quite a few errors in there..

1. He explains the Spring ffb channel perfectly and why he leaves it at 100% (default). He says something like this:
"The channel alone doesn't do anything. Only if a game uses this ffb channel, it will do something. So it's probably intended then and good to keep the slider at defaults".
He then goes on and says that the damper ffb channel would ALWAYS dampen the ffb, which is wrong, as he explained it about the spring ffb channel...

2. Then he explains why clipping would be bad and uses audio signals for a comparison, which he explains incorrectly, same for the dynamic mode from ffb clip.

I would correct his comparison to:
- ffb clipping is nothing like audio signals, since it's not a wave form that can be distorted. When ffb is clipping, the directional part of the ffb is still completely there, but the STRENGTH of the ffb will stay the same.
So you still feel what the car is doing (oversteering = the wheel running into opposite lock) but you won't feel the difference in grip anymore.

- ffb clip dynamic mode is not like a compressor (that would mean ffb gain changes 10-100x per SECOND). It's rather an automated volume fader that always keeps the volume at a good level.
You know the issue of watching a movie on your TV and the speech is too quiet and all the music and action scenes are way too loud? Dynamic mode from FFB clip is you changing the volume from scene to scene on your remote.

----------------------------------------

About your generated LUT: it looks awful. You basically have the default ffb, just lowered in gain (almost straight line until 95% gain) and then the gain shoots up to 100%.
So you have a lower strength in your wheel until a force gets really close to 100%, then the wheel will become a LOT stronger although the ffb just barely increases.

About generated LUTs in general:
Do you really think "throwing" your wheel with different strength and then measuring how far it turned on its own is an accurate method to decide if the motor increases in strength in a linear way?
To make this accurate, the resistance of the wheelbase would need to be completely linear across different "throw speeds" too.

But I highly doubt this... Linear ffb is about the motor increasing smoothly in strength when you HOLD THE WHEEL TIGHT. It has nothing to do with wheel throw...


----------------------------------------

About T300 settings:
First post and my long post are what you should try. Two very good settings completely listed and explained :)

Ha thanks! Well explained.

The way you write makes me think you also do music production, i know its not the point of the topix i'm just wondering :o)
 

RasmusP

Premium
Ha thanks! Well explained.

The way you write makes me think you also do music production, i know its not the point of the topix i'm just wondering :o)
Yep, I'm finishing my mechatronical engineering studies right now and thought about becoming an audio engineer after school.
Still doing some mixing for small bands I know.

Nothing better than seeing audio levels and frequencies bouncing in all the plugins :D

Comes at the cost of not able to stand all the crap quality online meetings over the last year :rolleyes::roflmao:
 
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