So RF2? sell it to me :)

So i have all current and old school sims apart from RF2.
My favourites being ACC,AC,R3E and AMS ,iracing is just too expensive imo.
I tried RF2 3 or 4 years ago and i got a refund from steam,could be just i was into other sims at the t time or the fact it looked absolutely terrible.
Either way im curious now as im hearing more and more about its FFB and physics.
Am i really missing out?
I heard there is a lot involved to get the game to look good ?
Ofcourse FFB and physics are most important but i dont want to play an ugly game, videos ive watched recently suggest its no longer the ugly runt of the litter?

I should add that while i can be found online racing 80% of my racing time is being immersed in single player racing so AI is very important to me also :)
 
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Yes i have reset FFB assigned, no joy, im not sure im willing to roll back to older drivers.
As it is im concerned about t300 reliability so id rather have latest drivers.
FFB was working yesterday for a while, not since.
 
Problem sorted, i was using my ACC settings in profiler ie no periodic,spring and damper at 0%
Switched back to defaults and glorious ffb again ,my bad sorry.
Just had a quick 10 lap race at zandvoort and no other sim gives me such a good feeling of weight transfer and loading up on tyres like i get in rf2 demo.
Im off to buy the game, ,i noticed some ui addons in some gameplay ive seen of the full game anything i should download straight away?
Is there anything to monitor ffb clipping?
 
Problem sorted, i was using my ACC settings in profiler ie no periodic,spring and damper at 0%
Switched back to defaults and glorious ffb again ,my bad sorry.
Just had a quick 10 lap race at zandvoort and no other sim gives me such a good feeling of weight transfer and loading up on tyres like i get in rf2 demo.
Im off to buy the game, ,i noticed some ui addons in some gameplay ive seen of the full game anything i should download straight away?
Is there anything to monitor ffb clipping?
Should have got in the steam sale a few weeks ago. 3rd of the price.;)
 
Problem sorted, i was using my ACC settings in profiler ie no periodic,spring and damper at 0%
Profiler? I thought you had a T300. Profiler is a Logitech thing.
(Also, I have to say that while I've seen many people set spring and damper at 0 because they don't know how these things work and think they're gaining something by doing so, you might be the first person to also set periodic forces to 0.)

Is there anything to monitor ffb clipping?
You can either record MoTeC data using DamPlugin and analyze it afterwards (not very useful IMO), or you can monitor the FFB real-time using SimHub and making some kind of widget to do so.

(of course not strong because T300 have a very small engine = CLIPPING)

That's not how clipping works. Strength of the motor has nothing to do with the amount of clipping you might get.
 
Yeah i meant TM control panel, maybe it wasnt my ACC settings.
When i took a look in there and saw all the values at 0 i assumed acc was the last game i had running, obviously not as i usually run completely different settings, i have them saved somewhere.
 
For sure you should wait a while longer. The new UI should be a better experience overall and on sale rF2 is a good deal. rF2 in its current state is a bit too much for many people, there is quite a bit to learn and keep sorted to have a good racing experience. You have waited this long, have another look during the holiday season and take advantage of the sales... by then hopefully the UI will have been released and save you from many more pitfalls you wont find in the demo.

rF2 is going to be here for a long time yet, and the community is always looking to help out when asked.
 
So your advice to someone asking for advice on how to get into the game and having a few issues is...to not play the game and wait for months, hoping for a miracle solution to certain issues that might not even come.

Well, that's certainly a unique way to grow the userbase.
 
That's not how clipping works. Strength of the motor has nothing to do with the amount of clipping you might get.
To be fair it's the natural result of it though since most people would run their base at default strength and set the game accordingly to achieve a "normal" average steering force.
With a bigger motor you automatically set the game ffb output lower and therefore have less clipping.

But I totally agree with you nonetheless because I like to play with the amount of clipping and then set the motor strength accordingly.
But I guess 99% of people don't do it my way...
 
Yeah, we've been over this before after all. I strongly believe the correct way to set up FFB is to maximize the game output and adjust the strength on the wheel if necessary. Doing it the other way round is just wrong IMO. Always maximize the input and then adjust the output to preference, not the other way round.
 
I always wonder about the logic around that?

1.0 FFB x 0.5 In-Game x 1.0 Wheel -> Actual FFB
or
1.0 FFB x 1.0 In-Game x 0.5 Wheel -> Actual FFB

If we not talking INT and REAL, I have notice no difference when I have tried both ways.
 
As long as the 1.0 FFB in-game doesn't result in more clipping than the 0.5 setting (which it likely would, though, if we're talking rF2), then realistically, you're probably not likely to notice much difference in either case, and it's largely just a matter of principle. There will likely be a difference, but not really detectable by the user. The difference might be more noticeable the lower your in-game settings are, though, since the weaker forces might simply be "rounded off" on the output.

However, if clipping enters the equation, then it obviously changes things significantly, because if you introduce clipping at the game level (which really is the only part of the chain where clipping usually occurs), then it will always be there at the output, regardless of whether you've set your wheel to 100 % strength or 20 % strength. So for this alone, it's a better practice to set the FFB as close to ideal as possible on the game side, and then "set the appropriate volume" of the result on the wheel itself.
 
I always wonder about the logic around that?

1.0 FFB x 0.5 In-Game x 1.0 Wheel -> Actual FFB
or
1.0 FFB x 1.0 In-Game x 0.5 Wheel -> Actual FFB

If we not talking INT and REAL difference, I have notice no difference when I have tried both ways.
The difference lies in clipping or other: overall dynamic.

The crucial bit lies at the transition of the game to the wheel base.
The base' software will cut off anything that's too much of an input. You'll see the same "border" in the clipping meters of the games.
Actually, clipping game output and limited base input are identical. It's the same level.

Raceroom is the only sim or game I know of where you have an additional gain setting between the base and the clipping meter. So in raceroom you actually have two limiting points.

An example with numbers above 1.0, let's say everything beyond 1.0 is clipping in the game output and in the wheel input.
There is no base motor clipping btw. It's limited by the base' driver before that would happen!

So game gain = 2.0 or 200% and base = 0.5 or 50%.
This means the normal 50% of ffb are now 100% and the maximum.
Examples of situations where the game ffb will be more than 50%:
- sausage kerbs
- hitting a wall
- high speed turn with a strong aero car

Now since these situations would exceed 100%, you won't get any stronger ffb during them. You'll only receive the change if direction of the wheel!

Then at the same time you lowered the base to 50%. Meaning what was 100% before will be 50% now.

Let's say you're cornering at a high speed and then hit a tree.
You'll have 90% game ffb during cornering and when hitting the tree, 100% (rest of the tree's spike will be clipped off).
That gets scaled to 45% and 50% at the wheel base.

What I want to say: you're now at 5% ffb motor output of difference between cornering and hitting a tree.

Now the full opposite. 50% in the game and 100% at the wheel base.
Same situations:
Cornering = 45%
Hitting the tree = 100%

Base at 100% means 1:1 these numbers.

So between cornering and hitting the tree will be a difference in ffb motor output of 55%!

Now let's put numbers at it. My csw 2.5 has around 8 Nm of torque.

Setup 1:
200% game, 50% base means 4 Nm of dynamic range.
Cornering = 3.6 Nm (90%)
Tree = 4.0 Nm (200% clipped off to 100%)

Setup 2:
50% game, 100% base means 8 Nm or dynamic range.
Cornering = 3.6 Nm (45%)
Tree = 8 Nm (100%)


That's your difference.

So I use clipping and my ffb motor setting to tune the dynamic range to my liking.
I like to feel it when I hit a tree but I don't really need 4.4 Nm of ffb output for it...

Let's say a tree-impact-jolt feels "good" when it's a peak of about 2 Nm. You can then tune clipping and the base strength to match these 2 Nm when hitting a tree.

Mostly I want enough dynamic range to feel the difference between everything while not losing control or getting exhausted when going over sausage kerbs or hitting a wall at bathurst.
(logitech g27: slow corners and fast corners and hitting trees are all the same basically, csw 2.5: hitting a tree in dirt rally with low game ffb and 100% base strength gives pain to my wrists)

In assetto corsa I run low gain and full base strength, in dirt rally 2.0 I use pretty high game output and only 60% base strength.

Hope that was what you were asking? :)
 
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Setup 1:
200% game, 50% base means 4 Nm of dynamic range.
Cornering = 3.6 Nm (90%)
Tree = 4.0 Nm (200% clipped off to 100%)

Setup 2:
50% game, 100% base means 8 Nm or dynamic range.
Cornering = 3.6 Nm (45%)
Tree = 8 Nm (100%)

I wonder if we mean the same here, my thinking is that it's better to reduce in-game rather than at wheel side to have that extra when needed.

Lets say "normal" feed back around the track is:
50% x internal gain (set to a value that feel relevant to you) -> feedback to wheel (set at 100% power)

If you hit some curb, tree or something else you get a peak above 50%, if limiting your wheel then clipping will happen. Using the in-game limiter, the FFB sent to the wheel will will be for example 75%. If already at 100%, well then you will only get 100%.

Not sure that make anything much clearer, but using in-game gain to set suitable level of FFB should be the way to go?
 

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