Slow driver

mteam

100RPM
Aug 21, 2018
148
29
49
After following Brunos thread I got the courage up to post a video of me trying to do a fast lap at mugello please dont laugh too much.

Any help would be appreciated fastest I've managed is just under 1.54

 

RasmusP

6000RPM
Premium
Oct 7, 2016
6,315
2,976
I don't really see any major mistakes apart from a few kerbs not perfectly hit but that's just a matter of practicing, not really something you'd need to change.

What I do see though: if that would be a real car I wouldn't have a problem to be your co-driver for a taxi lap around there. It looks smooth and safe etc.

I think you are lacking aggression! It looks like you wouldn't steer enough, brake hard enough, go on the throttle aggressively enough. Didn't really hear any tyre squeal!
But then you have this weird on throttle oversteer. What setup are you using? Could you upload it? :)
 

mteam

100RPM
Aug 21, 2018
148
29
49
Thanks Rasmus Just the standard setup I've not changed anything so I need to get more aggressive
 

RasmusP

6000RPM
Premium
Oct 7, 2016
6,315
2,976
Thanks Rasmus Just the standard setup I've not changed anything so I need to get more aggressive
I'll try to do some laps with the default setup too then!
BTW is the track set to "optimum", 100% grip? What temperatures are you running?
If you don't know where to see this all, just go on track and in the pits menu on the top left you'll see all the data. Temps, wind, grip level etc.
Just to make sure that we're running similar things at all :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: RobertR1

mteam

100RPM
Aug 21, 2018
148
29
49
Track is auto set by weather I'm not sure what I had the others set too :) if you let me know what settings you use I'll change mine to match. I'm going out soon so it will be tomorrow before I do another run

Thanks for this
 
  • Like
Reactions: RasmusP

RobertR1

1000RPM
May 14, 2018
1,144
818
You should note the following for a control sample so if people post ref videos for comparison, it’s apples to apples.

- tire compound
- any setting changes at all even something small as a one click change
- track grip levels configured
- time of day
- air temp and track temp
- tire wear rate and fuel level

What you don’t want is to be chasing a time in very different conditions.
 

RasmusP

6000RPM
Premium
Oct 7, 2016
6,315
2,976
Did a few laps:

Lap time: 1:49.103

- fuel, tyre consumption 1x
- track grip: optimum, 100%
- time of day: 15:00
- air temp: 22° C
- track temp: 16° C
- Wind: 0 km/h

Car: mostly default!
- TC down to 1
- Diff Power: 30%
- Diff Coast: 60%
- Front ARB: 11
(- medium tyres)

I tried to keep the car as default as possible but the default is way too oversteery for me! Couldn't go flat out or push even a little harder without the car spinning...

I would suggest for you to take a different car. I really don't like it...
Here's a pack of extremely quick setups around Mugello from someone who knows how to set up cars and is also very very fast!
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/gt3-car-pack-mugello.137709/

I think you really need to push harder. Make the tyre squeal and steer more!

Here's the video of my dirty but fastest lap for now:
 

mteam

100RPM
Aug 21, 2018
148
29
49
I've managed a couple of 1.54s this morning running the same settings as you so slowly coming down.

thanks Rasmus and Robert
 
  • Like
Reactions: RasmusP

RasmusP

6000RPM
Premium
Oct 7, 2016
6,315
2,976
I've managed a couple of 1.54s this morning running the same settings as you so slowly coming down.

thanks Rasmus and Robert
I thought about how to make you imagine how the limit feels that I am driving at.. It's difficult!
I compliment you for being such a safe driver! You're going to the limit from below, not from being way above and slowing gaining control like many others! :)

You need to think about the limit like the point where the car can only go like that, or wider. Your video looks like you could go tighter at any point in all corners.
In my video there was only going wider or lifting the throttle.

What yoh should do as an exercise:
In every single corner, turn the wheel until you hear the tyre squeal. If you don't hear it, turn further!
Don't go into full scrubbing but you should do a little squealing in every turn really! Just for an exercise!
And if you go too tight, then you need more speed! Do that until you start to understeer into the outside gravel pits.
If the car oversteers while doing so, raise the front anti roll bar, put traction control to 1 (most limiting) and lower the diff power.

When you understeer while at full throttle and do a good line with full tyre squeal. Then we're talking!
Then you will need to learn how to play with the limit. Slight lifts, bit of braking, opening and closing the steering again etc.

But I think you're lacking recklessness :p
Normally a good thing but not for simracing pace :)
 

mteam

100RPM
Aug 21, 2018
148
29
49
Thanks for this I shall keep practicing on a side note I dont know what I've done but the mouse pointer doesnt disappear anymore when driving
 

Jempy

1000RPM
Premium
Nov 26, 2010
1,897
573
69
If your mouse pointer doesn't disappear ... mostly moving it at another place of the screen helps to make it disappear again ... maybe there's a part of an invisible app making it appear.

When it happens, I prefer pointing the mouse on the track map at the left high edge of the monitor.
2 advantages: the map is emphasized and the pointer disappears. ;)

NB: Recklessness is surely also something I miss in Simracing ... reason why surely I'm a middle or backmarker. :whistling:
 

mteam

100RPM
Aug 21, 2018
148
29
49
Quick reboot and mouse pointer is playing nice again.

Spending more time off the track at the moment :) understeer wide or let off and loose the back end I'm not quick enough to catch it
 

RasmusP

6000RPM
Premium
Oct 7, 2016
6,315
2,976
understeer wide or let off and loose the back end I'm not quick enough to catch it
I lost the rear a lot of times! That car sadly tends to do that...
You could try to raise the diff coast until it stops oversteering when you lift the throttle :)
 

mteam

100RPM
Aug 21, 2018
148
29
49
After lots of laps not really getting any quicker than the 1.54s, some corners I think I'm faster round others I think I enter too slow so if I get aggressive with the wheel I turn in too much. I shall keep working at it

After watching your video again and again Rasmus it looks like you turn into the corners a lot earlier than me
 
Last edited:

Kek700

2000RPM
Premium
Mar 26, 2016
2,213
2,394
73
Practice can be quite counter productive, although i am not quick , i am certainly
quicker than i was. I found it far more advantageous to think a lot about my
approach to driving a circuit, watch a lot of videos, read a lot of articles like this one.
And then keep apply the new found approaches to driving, it may work, it may not.
Eventually you will get quicker without really being able to explain how.
Too much driving can leave you somewhat disenchanted and you find yourself
chasing a time and not concentrating on how to be quicker.
Rasmus helped me a lot, so you are in good hands.
Some people find this initial part very easy, people like me have to study a lot,
where some are there within an hour or so.
These people end up working just as hard as you, but they are chasing seconds
or maybe 10th’s.:mad:

Doing this in isolation makes it extremely difficult too.:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: RasmusP and mteam

RasmusP

6000RPM
Premium
Oct 7, 2016
6,315
2,976
After lots of laps not really getting any quicker than the 1.54s, some corners I think I'm faster round others I think I enter too slow so if I get aggressive with the wheel I turn in too much. I shall keep working at it

After watching your video again and again Rasmus it looks like you turn into the corners a lot earlier than me
Every time you approach a lap differently you will become slower at first!

I'm not really turning in earlier. Or well.. I do, but the car doesn't start to actually turn into the corner earlier.
I'm so much faster at the entry, that the car takes a moment to settle and just shoots straight while I'm already turning the steering wheel.
The softer a car is, the longer this short moment will be. The McLaren mp4 gt3 is pretty wonky I have to say so it takes quite some time until it actually steers!

Keep trying different things and be as aggressive as you can be! Report back when you have questions and I can really recommend to watch your replays every time you think you did what you tried correctly to check back if you really did so or just felt like doing so!

It's always:
1. Think about what to change
2. Practice to do that
3. When you think you did, watch the replay to confirm

Practice can be quite counter productive, although i am not quick , i am certainly
quicker than i was. I found it far more advantageous to think a lot about my
approach to driving a circuit, watch a lot of videos, read a lot of articles like this one.
And then keep apply the new found approaches to driving, it may work, it may not.
Eventually you will get quicker without really being able to explain how.
Too much driving can leave you somewhat disenchanted and you find yourself
chasing a time and not concentrating on how to be quicker.
Rasmus helped me a lot, so you are in good hands.
Some people find this initial part very easy, people like me have to study a lot,
where some are there within an hour or so.
These people end up working just as hard as you, but they are chasing seconds
or maybe 10th’s.:mad:

Doing this in isolation makes it extremely difficult too.:)
Thanks for the flowers :)
As I mentioned above, getting faster always starts in your head! You have to be able to nail the lap in your head before you can nail it on track. Ofc that can be actively or passively done, but your brain needs to be somewhat able to nail the lap.

In my opinion there are always these steps:
1. Input - Getting to know the car and track
2. Processing - Your brain adjusting/thinking etc to get fast
3. Output - Actually drive

Now some people need longer to get usable input than others, some need a lot of time for the processing and some need a lot of time to be able to output it.
If you are very good at all 3 steps, it's called talent :p

I am pretty good at gathering the input. Good memory and sharp concentration. I'm also quite well at processing but I lack the right thinking too often. That's were motec data comparison between me and a faster driver helps a lot! Getting me to process correctly!
And well the output... I'd say I'm averagely well at getting what I want to the track. It's a slow and steady process!

Overall I can be pretty fast if I have a benchmark that's faster than me and when I have enough time to practice it. But if you just throw me in I'm hopelessly lost :roflmao:
So since practicing without a quick benchmark is wasted time with my lacking talent, I like to help others :p:D
 
Last edited:

Kek700

2000RPM
Premium
Mar 26, 2016
2,213
2,394
73
That explains it very well, :thumbsup: to have a fast driver
do a lap then you do a lap and being able to look at
the data from both yourself and the quick driver
is worth it’s weight in gold.
It is the realisation that the performance difference is tangible and observed. As opposed to bashing around a circuit looking hopelessly for 5 seconds is so demoralising:( ( been there )
Being isolated, as most are, makes 1 or 2 evenings
become months and months of what seems like
a long slog.
Finding data logging has proved impossible for me, so mine has been ( funnily enough ) an enjoyable long slog.
It certainly did not take a rocket scientist to see
that alien speed would never be my forte. But the journey has been most enjoyable.
The bulb finally went on for me, when Rasmus and Tarquin showed one of their comparison plots
and every thing, just made sense.

The point of this boring monologue........:confused::sleep::sleep:

You have to put in the work before you can
fully understand the advise that’s given, Unfortunately
that just the way it goes.:(

I suppose if you were one of the gifted few you
Probably would not have asked in the first place.:)
 

Mr Deap

500RPM
Jan 3, 2016
509
160
89
I see the same exact stuff as @Bruno Iwanczuk with the brake/steering input when trail braking that make you underdrive the car during the entry phase.

@mteam you're releasing the brake pressure before turn in. What you simply need to do is the complete opposite. Turn in, after you release the brake. When you get used to the motion of doing it, you will be able to brake much more late & be able to accelerate more late. Cars without ABS is nearly 1:1, but you can exploit a lot with assist.

Mugello require a lot of learning curve with the brake & little to do with driving skill.

"You release the brake as you turn in"
You release the brake pressure first, after you turn in

"You turn in as you release the brake"
You turn in, after you release the brake pressure

It's not 5:5... It's 2 completely different method. It's like when you brake mid corner. One pattern will require you to release steering while adding brake pressure. While the other one will require to brake & add steering.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mteam and Kek700