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Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by HugoB, Dec 30, 2018.
Any news? Beta testers? When can we expect it on the market? What will it cost for us Europeans?
It is scheduled to ship early january for first orders. It’s not available to order if go to simxperience website for everyone right now, but I logged in to my simxperience account and sent them a mail of my interest in the seat. The guys at simxperience then made the GS5 viewable to me on the simxperience website and I could also put in an order for it if I wanted. That is what I wanted. So that’s what I did
2999 dollars for the seat. About 400 in shipping to Norway. I have to put 25% vat on top of that. Costly business this sim racing hobby
Thank you for the heads up!! I did as you said and now I can order the GS-5 Seat It will cost me 3700 euro including shipping to Europe after customs. That’s about what I expected. They wrote me that it will be on the market in the next week anyway.
It looks like a solid product. You get SimVibe included also btw. My only two concerns are:
1. Noise level? Will it be louder than my SFX100? Louder than my Buttkickers Concert? Or silent? There are no videos yet.
2. G-forces from the side? On the pictures the panels come from the back, there is nothing on the side.. how can you feel cornering g-forces? Does it work anyway? I won’t be needing road bumps etc. because my SFX100 does them very well, my only interest is cornering and acceleration g-forces. But I can’t see how the GS-5 seat can push me from the side..?
But apparently a D-Box style motion + GS-4/5 seat is a match made in heaven, confirmed by a few lucky users
I got an invitation to buy one in the presale a couple of weeks ago.
3750 euro was too much for me to dive right in there, but also the fact that panels of the GS-5 look smaller (less wide) and they didn't make them extended so the forces come more from the side.
My current GS-4 is already modded and provides much more feedback than a standard GS-4, I'm afraid that a 3750 euro investment could lead to disappointment since, like Hugo, i only need it for G-force simulation.
Also the current market for a use GS-4 in Europe is non-excistent. So for now i decided to keep my GS-4, since i'm still very happy with the what it adds tot the SFX100, it's indeed a match made in heaven.
I'm closely following @Michal Burisin in build my his own G-seat and i'm considering to maybe replace the servos in the future.
Assuming the GS-5 is not louder than the GS-4, i don't think it's louder than the SFX100 and the sound it makes doesn't travel as far as the SFX100 actuators.
The GS5 looks good but certainly not worth over 3500 euro.
Damn that could buy a nice PC upgrade and 49" curved monitor.
Yes, my concerns as well.. I really need a good solution for lateral g-forces, it’s the last piece of the puzzle for my motion. But for 3700 I would like some peace of mind that it does cornering really well, because if it disappoints, it’s an expensive mistake. I hope someone can soon confirm the GS-5 seat gives convincing g-forces in corners?
Michal’s panel design does indeed look like there is more side pressure. I hope he succeeds soon! I’m just so damn eager to experience g-forces together with my SFX100! I should have more patience...
But HoiHman’s reports of the combination is making it really hard to not buy a GS-5 right now
Reading Richard's review over there on the xsimulator link makes it a pretty compelling argument. I have the Next Level V3 as members over on the other thread already know, so it's only a matter of selling that and basically trading up to the GS-5. I've already made peace with the fact that I am keeping the V3 combined with the SFX, so trading it for a GS-5 leaves me only slightly out of pocket for what seems to be the ultimate combination.
I am seriously considering it now. I was not convinced AT ALL at the comfort and authenticity that the GS-4 would provide just by looking at it. The panels seemed to be a little harsh looking and I could imagine it feeling like someone was poking you in the back with a stick as you were driving. But the GS-5 looks to have addressed nearly all the concerns I had about the earlier model. WAY more padding, as in, it actually has some now. It looks like a real seat rather than a metal bucket to sit in. It's A LOT stronger than the other motors used. The paddles are contoured rather than flat pieces of metal. AND I now have a full motion platform to combine it with.
Yeah.. me too... my finger is still hovering over the buy button... the little devil on my right sholder is doing somersaults to try and convince me, meanwhile the little angel on my left shoulder is sitting curled up crying about my poor wallet that is going to be molested..
Haha. I know. I was looking for a GS-4 for ages when I reaslied they just weren't going to be available. I never thought they'd actually release this. I wouldn't care if I only had the V3 like I do now but one the full motion build is complete this is just the icing on the cake. I should be able to nearly cover the cost with the sale of the V3 plus the seat that is mounted to it. Obviously I wouldn't need that anymore if I end up with a GS-5.
Based on the 2999 dollar sale price above and most likely a similar shipping price to Aus, I am looking at around $6K AUD all up for a GS-5 once you factor in GST and import duties. It's pretty steep considering that's slightly under what the V3 and SFX build cost me COMBINED.
I had an opportunity to try it out at the Indy in Toronto. For comparison, I have a DIY Gseat with a total of 160kgcm servos for lateral forces (more than GS-4) and panels that extend to my sides. I found the GS5 lateral force reproduction to be great but not to the level of my DIY seat. That said, I don’t think it was setup for very strong forces and I’d imagine the stepper motors that it uses could do much more than my servos can. I will also say that the road texture the GS5 can reproduce is unbelievably good. Extremely convincing and leagues better than my heave panels. It was incredible, comfortable and silent!
Hopefully, it will be in my budget in the future, just a bit too much for me right now.
Thanks for the excellent report! That’s valuable information
From what I can gather now, the GS-5 is really good, but can never be as good as a custom made DIY g-seat, simply because they needed to design a seat that fits a wide range of body types.
Those road bumps sure sound fantastic and from a technical point of view it’s quite brilliant to concentrate the road texture bumps directly to your bum. But since I already have the equally brilliant SFX100 which manages to turn the whole rig into a real car, I would only use the g-forces. Those g-forces don’t even need to be so fast, not like bumps, so your DIY lateral curved panels may be better for people like me with sufficient road texture already sorted.
Damn, this has been the hardest purchase so far. All other components of my rig where a no-brainer.
It's because for a small amount of missing information we are asked to pay nearly double what the SFX system cost us. With that we get a massive amount of return on investment whereas with the G seat it's really just the icing on an already really sweet and nice tasting cake. I think before anything I need to try everything together with the V3 to even consider one of these. I've been plenty happy with the G force feeling in the V3 and although it cannot give sustained forces I think that combined with the very intense feelings of road, bumps and also built in tactile of the SFX-100 system I'm going to be pretty much covered. I'd say that I could eliminate the need for road bumps and just about everything else apart from lateral and longitudinal forces from my buttkickers too and increase the feeling of weight even further. Combined with everything else, of course.
To put things in perspective Hugo, road bumps are available on the GS-4 to but i have them turned off. The SFX-100 simply does a better job and when you are really nitpicking. It doesn't make sense that you bum feels the road texture while your feet, the steering rack and the rest of the rig don't. If that's all you have, then it's ok but if you have the SFX100 to your disposal it's better to let it do it's job for the entire rig
I only use my GS-4 for the G-forces AND braking forces. They both work very good. Because simxperience wants to let the GS-5/GS-4 do a lot forces and it has to fit a lot different body shapes the opted for the flat panels. I know from experience that the forces will feel more coming from the back than from the side.
That's why i modded my GS-4 and i think a DIY seat would be a better option.
When I tried the GS5 I thought that the forces used for cornering would complement the sfx100 really well.
I did think however that there was too much going on otherwise and I would have just used the sfx for all other effects. The road texture generally felt like I was being poked and prodded on my arse in a way I dont feel in a car.
If I had the $$ I do think it would be part of the missing piece to the whole equation just for the cornering.
Adding G-force effects are a natural progression of motion feedback goals. I do think that having more side-force would be ideal when combined with an actuator setup although, GS-5 user feedback includes mention a nice drop-effect when the car goes light over a crest.
With a DIY G-seat, it's one thing to construct / alter a seat to accommodate panels and make it reasonably comfortable but, achieving optimal mechanics is a another challenge that's much harder to solve - at least without an engineering degree and/or a lot of experimentation. SimX has likely done that part very well but, as pointed out, in a more universal way to cover most users.
Sourcing servo's with the correct power / gear-ratio / speed for the application is not as simple as we may first think. Then there's the long-term durability issues to solve (mechanical, aesthetics, covering, etc.). When all is said and done, 3-4k may seem like a real bargain but, I may take a stab at adding some side-bolster mechanics to my racing-seat to test the waters.
I'm thinking of selling my NLRV3 and getting this instead. Looking forward to hearing more reviews.
I'd like to learn more if this is based on game telemetry or a requires manual tweaking of settings to "get the motion right" as the NLRV3.
Ideally, the forces being simulated should be coming from the game engine directly and being translated by the software. You shouldn't need profiles for different type of cars. Anything too severe, and the unit should just clip the signal that's out of range.
I think that's a wrong assumption, even my own may be wrong here but I will attempt to describe.
Its not as if the telemetry data comes over perfect for each car.
The sims physics will generate the data based on the factors that determine each cars (simulated handling) however the telemetry output cannot determine what range of data is perfect for the varying effects for different cars.
Take the SFX100 thread with some saying they can have the sensitivity for road surfaces/suspension that they could feel driving over an envelope. Now higher sensitivity may suit certain cars but by no means all. When you apply controls from within the software the motion/tactile uses it determines how the telemetry code is used. For example if we have very small data values generating a response then they can be very lively and to a point excessive. It will be operating almost constant as the code flows and could drown out other effects operation.
In some cases for a good profile, we have to balance what level (value of code) is required for the effect to begin, so any telemetry values below this are ignored. For instance, what suits the effect and car being driven if we want to class/categorise different tiers of cars? Here we could have one car bring much more detailing but another much less. Its not just about how strong an effect is applied that is important for car profiles but controlling the operation (range) an effect also works.
Of course ,lots of people just go with a user preference for the profile they are creating and using it as a general profile for a particular sim.
What is key is having good settings within a profile that all the effects operate in harmony within the capabilities of the hardware being used. What however is very different is the various software solutions used with the motion/tactile and what options they offer, what controls they bring and potential each can deliver for control/operation of the effects output.
You need someone that understands code to better explain but I think its good to keep in mind that some effects will have methods applied by the developer of the software (for the tactile/motion) in their code for how certain effects operate. Some effects themselves I assume use additional simulated data algorithms by each solutions software developer to achieve an operation for some effects.
Simvibe Road Texture is perhaps a good example that doesn't use tone generation when other effects do. It is potentially then applying its "own thing" to represent this effect sensation (I monitored its output in the past). So not all effects may come from direct or untouched telemetry values for each wheel but do something internally via the controlling software for the motion/tactile to generate even a mono effect over all 4 wheels.
Somone that knows more about such code could answer this better
All I can say is, I monitored a fair bit of how different "tactile software" options generated the different effects. As this is audio for transducers its possible to see it in operation via professional based audio/hardware tools. Their can be vast differences with the same sim, same car as to what the user may experience in the immersion provided.
Professional hardware with profile/settings that suck is likely overall less enjoyable or worse experience than basic hardware with well-configured profiles or settings.
GS5 may have great hardware but how does its operating software vary to what d.i.y offers?
I agree with Dean that indeed someone like Michal is going to find a lot of work/trial and error is needed to find what solutions work for such a seat build. Of course, there already are people who have ventured into this in the past over at xsim and have a wealth of experience or knowledge.
I disagree about needing the profiles tuned and such for the V3 through software. Sure, we can do it if we want, but it does indeed use telemetry based information to construct the motion. The sliders are a very simple way of curing certain aspects that might bother some people or feel odd in a particular combination of car and track; see mods and excessive bumps. But you certainly don't need to do it and for me I've pretty much left every slider on 1.00 and always only adjusted the Overall slider to match what I feel is a comfortable and enjoyable amount of motion. The post process is there for advanced tuning but I only use that to split formula and non formula cars and that's because I'm searching for the best it can offer. I used the platform for at least 12 - 14 months before that was even available and was still very happy.
I'm not sold on the G-Seat. I had massive doubts about the GS-4 and without trying a GS-5 it's a hard sell to me at $6K AUD. I'm sure it's improved over the GS-4 but I think the theory behind it is more appealing than the paddles poking you in the back is. Just my opinion and I'd love to try one and have it prove me wrong.