SimXperience G-Belt review

False - Cloud tuning will fill in the correct peak G-Force values for your G-Belt effect and you can simply expand these effects to see what values it filled in. So for example, if you go to the effect titled 'Braking' and open it to see its detailed settings, you will see that the G-Force value changed to represent the max G of the particular car/track combo you are on. Example below:

hXTed88.jpg

That is interesting and thank you for the quick reply. I will run a couple races today and test the results, then try to report back here.

With regard to my comments on the messiness of the software I have three specific gripes that other users may or may not share in relation to the G-belt/GS-5 specifically. I'll detail them here:
  1. Music auto playing when the app is launched - I know you can turn it off, but I struggle to see who would want this in the first place, just a needless irritation and feels rooted in the past. A small issue.
  2. The cloud tuning voice - maybe I am missing something, but there doesn't appear to be a way to turn this off. A small issue, but a continual irritation when using cloud tuning.
  3. Failing to turn off the devices before closing the app results in a crash - I can't count the number of times a week I do this after more than a year with the GS-5. Would hope this would be straightforward to fix, but regularly having to close the app from task manager is frustrating. A larger issue.
It would be nice as well to see some more instruction for specific use. As it stands now I have four 'catch basin' profiles that I am using for a variety of cars based on expected g-forces. Is the intent to create a profile for each individual car/track combo? A profile per car? Some more info on how the software is intended to be used would be welcome. Apologies if you have put this info out since I got everything configured and I missed it.

Hope this feedback helps and thank you again for your quick reply. I am not trying to attack you, just share my honest experience with the product for others to consider.
 

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With regard to my comments on the messiness of the software I have three specific gripes that other users may or may not share in relation to the G-belt/GS-5 specifically. I'll detail them here:
  1. Music auto playing when the app is launched - I know you can turn it off, but I struggle to see who would want this in the first place, just a needless irritation and feels rooted in the past. A small issue.
  2. The cloud tuning voice - maybe I am missing something, but there doesn't appear to be a way to turn this off. A small issue, but a continual irritation when using cloud tuning.
  3. Failing to turn off the devices before closing the app results in a crash - I can't count the number of times a week I do this after more than a year with the GS-5. Would hope this would be straightforward to fix, but regularly having to close the app from task manager is frustrating. A larger issue.
It would be nice as well to see some more instruction for specific use. As it stands now I have four 'catch basin' profiles that I am using for a variety of cars based on expected g-forces. Is the intent to create a profile for each individual car/track combo? A profile per car? Some more info on how the software is intended to be used would be welcome. Apologies if you have put this info out since I got everything configured and I missed it.

Hope this feedback helps and thank you again for your quick reply. I am not trying to attack you, just share my honest experience with the product for others to consider.

In general:

-We find more backlash from feature removal than anything else.
-The biggest complaint about the software is that it offers too many options (eg - too much flexibility).

With these in mind

-Removing the music infuriates commercial sim center and arcade users who use this music to draw attention to the simulator that they need to keep busy in order to pay their bills. It also gets us backlash from the many who are apparently resistant to change. Adding an option to disable the music in the settings window agitates the very large number of users that asked for Sim Commander to be simplified in terms of options.

Solution: leave it be and if it bothers someone, they turn the already existing volume control to 0 or set the audio file to nothing. These existing settings are remembered, so you only have to do it one time.

-No option to disable cloud tuning voice. Until now, the only people to complain about this are commercial resellers of our gear. They don't like the fact that it says: Matching car and track data found in SIMXPERIENCE database, profile modified." I can understand their concern, as they are attempting to obscure the fact that it's relatively affordable SimXperience gear under the hoods of their $85,000 USD simulators. This is a tough one since more options mean more things to test and more agitated users with the number of options, so we'll probably give them a way to disable this in a settings file under the hood.

The issue of a crash if you unplug devices while Sim Commander is running is something that we have open discussion with Microsoft on. Simply put, WMI (Windows Management Instrumentation) won't notify us of USB removal/disconnect quickly enough. We send data at 1000Hz. Thats every 1 millisecond. On some systems, it can take Windows a full second to tell us of the USB disconnect, at which point we've had 1000 failed communications with devices. It's a lengthy story. The best we can do has been done for the next version of Sim Commander, which is to aggregate the error messages into a single message, then tell you in that message that you shouldn't unplug a SimXperience device while Sim Commander is running.

If you consider this to be a mess, I'm sure that our competitors are quite grateful to not have you looking at their offerings!

Tuning addressed in upcoming post.
 
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It would be nice as well to see some more instruction for specific use. As it stands now I have four 'catch basin' profiles that I am using for a variety of cars based on expected g-forces. Is the intent to create a profile for each individual car/track combo? A profile per car? Some more info on how the software is intended to be used would be welcome. Apologies if you have put this info out since I got everything configured and I missed it.

Hope this feedback helps and thank you again for your quick reply. I am not trying to attack you, just share my honest experience with the product for others to consider.

Our tuning story has evolved over the years in an effort to better serve our ever-changing customer base.

Iterative manual tuning by sliders, even though the sliders have real world units, are meaningless to users that either:

a.) - Don't know what the units mean (G, Nm, Degrees per second squared, etc...)
b.) - Understand the units but don't know the peaks a vehicle achieves (therefore their slider settings are just guesses)
c.) - Don't have the time to tune by feel, adjusting sliders with each run until they finally find the right magic combination.

This is the model that we started off with in 2007 and the model that most of our competitors use to this very day.

In 2007, most of our customers were vehicle engineers, team engineers, etc.. They knew the vehicle they wanted to simulate. Tuning by sliders wasn't iterative for them. They simply set the sliders to the known limits of the one vehicle they cared about. They understood that after doing so, the intensity settings would thereafter represent a percentage of actuator travel, transducer amplitude or steering force.

For some years to follow, we focused on providing them with greater tuning depth. For example, we added additional effects and provided the ability to apply filters at the individual effect level. This allowed us to stand out as the simplest yet most powerful software of the day.

However, over those very same years, our customer base began to transition from vehicle engineers to the larger sim racing community. We started seeing user confusion at all levels, which was initially perplexing. Eventually there started to be a unified cry for something we couldn't really provide. People wanted a manual that would make them fully understand the in-depth effects and filters that were originally intended for people who already understand things like what roll acceleration expressed in degrees per second squared means in the same way that most already understand what acceleration G force is.

Further, sim racing customers wanted to drive dozens, even hundreds of vehicles and have an easy, accurate experience. This was a big departure from the more narrow focus of team engineers.

As the years passed, it became clear that we needed to simplify the user experience for the broader sim racing market.

Somewhere around 2012-2013 we created the ability to "auto-tune" a profile from a lap recording. This gave end users the same advantages an engineer would have in that they now know the peaks of the vehicle and could have that automatically filled into their profile with just a few clicks after running a lap. In order to accommodate the large number of profiles this might generate, we added the ability to filter the list by game, car and track.

Despite our best efforts to push people toward the auto-tune feature, it never really got traction and it seemed that as the years went on, while we were miles ahead of competing systems that offered only a handful of sliders and iterative guesswork tuning, the public narrative was still one of confusion and a belief that the software was too difficult.

At that point we started thinking down the path of how we could provide a zero effort experience that made no assumptions about the end user. Doing so meant that we would need to have the same data on hand that a team engineer would have, but we would need it for every game, car and track on the market.

You only get one chance to make a first impression, so we knew that we would need to collect years worth of data in order to ensure that even edge case cloud tuning scenarios would be spot on. If we failed to get it right the first time, our name would be further smeared throughout public forums.

Fast forward to 2020, maybe, just maybe, we've finally cracked the nut of how to provide the masses with a zero-effort spot on experience without compromising the guru's ability to dig deeper.

Many of you have been receiving free software updates for over 12 years that have provided continual functional improvement. I would be surprised if there were more than a handful of other hardware vendors who can say the same.

My whole point here is to say that we're listening, we've been listening and we're still working for you.

Today's tuning narrative is truly simple. You just click to launch a cloud-designated profile and we take care of everything else. If you find after some time that you have a preference for an incorrectly configured profile, such as one that under-utilizes the hardware or one that clips, you can adjust the intensity sliders on a device level or on an effect level. Those settings are maintained across cloud-tuning sessions, as they are your preference. I do however encourage you to spend time with the cloud-tune values, as they will absolutely make the most of your hardware.
 
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Today's tuning narrative is truly simple. You just click to launch a cloud-designated profile and we take care of everything else. If you find after some time that you have a preference for an incorrectly configured profile, such as one that under-utilizes the hardware or one that clips, you can adjust the intensity sliders on a device level or on an effect level. Those settings are maintained across cloud-tuning sessions, as they are your preference. I do however encourage you to spend time with the cloud-tune values, as they will absolutely make the most of your hardware.

Does the profile need to be linked to a specific vehicle to properly utilize cloud settings? At the moment all of my profiles are set to "Universal" vehicle and track.
 
Does the profile need to be linked to a specific vehicle to properly utilize cloud settings? At the moment all of my profiles are set to "Universal" vehicle and track.

With cloud tuning, you should only need one profile per game, but it's possible to have more than that.

In the interest of simplifying the tuning narrative, a cloud-designated profile won't have the option to assign the vehicle and venue. Those option do exist for a non-cloud profile though because in that case, you could be making hundreds of profiles and need to be able to manage/filter them by game/car/track.

To get cloud-designated profiles, simply auto-discover from the main screen like so:

HowToAutoDiscover.gif


Also, I would advise making your first experiments with cloud tuning using a default profile. If you have already modified the settings of a cloud profile, you can reset it to defaults like so:

HowToResetToDefaults.gif


If after driving a variety of cars, tracks, you find a common theme as to what you want to change, then you can enable/disable effects and increase/decrease effect intensity, as all of these user preferences remain across cloud tuning sessions as you drive different cars and tracks.

Basically, every setting that you see on this screen is a user preference:

G-Belt-Defaults.jpg


When you drill-down to settings deeper than this, some of those settings are set by cloud tuning.
 
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I am a very happy GS-5 and Accuforce 1 user since years. This cloud tuning, now that I've finally read a very good explanation of it here is superb!!! Thanks so much.

Some questions:

When starting the cloud profile for a game it almost always says 'partial correspondence found' why partial? What's missing?

I rather use your foundation ffb which I prefer largely over in game ffb (in all my games: rFactor 2 AMS2, iracing and ACC). Is there a way to set this choice per default instead of game ffb and dampening? Or do I have to change it once for all and then it is memorised?
Are the effect option checkboxes and the value if the sliders in the Accuforce steering part selected on a per car basis (for example stationary damping for some cars but not for others) or do you always use the same effects with the same slider setting and deactivate the others?

Thanks!!
 
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I am a very happy GS-5 and Accuforce 1 user since years. This cloud tuning, now that I've finally read a very good explanation of it here is superb!!! Thanks so much.

Some questions:

When starting the cloud profile for a game it almost always says 'partial correspondence found' why partial? What's missing?

Hi Gadaga,

I'm glad you're enjoying the AccuForce, GS-5 and cloud tuning!

Sim Commander cloud tuning will indicate status verbally and on the control center screen. It will indicate a Full match, Partial match or No match.

A Full match indicates that we have a large number of samples for the specific car and track you are driving and can provide an excellent experience with a high degree of certainty.

A Partial match indicates that we have some data for your scenario, but it isn't as much data as we would like. It's also possible that we have a lot of data for the car you are driving, but not on the track you are driving on, etc.. In these cases, we continue collecting data so that in the future, we can provide a full match. This said, partial matches are almost always a quality experience as we set the bar for these fairly high.

A No match scenario indicates that we do not have sufficient data to provide automated tuning for the car and track you are driving.

I'll circle back to your other questions this evening.
 
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Quick question, when there's no match but you carry on driving does it automatically log the data so after so many laps it gets better by itself as you give it more info?
 
Quick question, when there's no match but you carry on driving does it automatically log the data so after so many laps it gets better by itself as you give it more info?

No. I think what you are describing is a simple "auto min/max" feature where it simply records peak values as you drive and keeps updating your settings with those peaks.

We had this in 2008 or so and it was very much frowned upon. It seems people don't like having their entire simulator feel different from lap to lap. Further, a simple recording of the peak observed value isn't the correct answer anyway.

The cloud tuning process is a much more involved series of calculations that run on our servers in the cloud. It would take too much CPU to arrive at these values as you are driving.

We release new car/track data into cloud tuning as soon as we have sufficient data to do so.

When cloud tuning data isn't yet available, we do offer a feature that will auto-tune from a recorded lap on your system. It's just a manual process. While it isn't as accurate as cloud tuning, you can get a pretty good result by running some laps, then following this process using your fastest lap:

HowToAutoTuneFromLap.gif


Again, we're constantly collecting data for cars and tracks that we have insufficient data for, so it's only a matter of time before a currently unknown vehicle will have a cloud tuning match if enough people drive it.
 
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Hi Gadaga,

I'm glad you're enjoying the AccuForce, GS-5 and cloud tuning!

Sim Commander cloud tuning will indicate status verbally and on the control center screen. It will indicate a Full match, Partial match or No match.

A Full match indicates that we have a large number of samples for the specific car and track you are driving and can provide an excellent experience with a high degree of certainty.

A Partial match indicates that we have some data for your scenario, but it isn't as much data as we would like. It's also possible that we have a lot of data for the car you are driving, but not on the track you are driving on, etc.. In these cases, we continue collecting data so that in the future, we can provide a full match. This said, partial matches are almost always a quality experience as we set the bar for these fairly high.

A No match scenario indicates that we do not have sufficient data to provide automated tuning for the car and track you are driving.

I'll circle back to your other questions this evening.
Thanks for this first part of the reply!! When you say that you're collecting data, how do you do this? Is it data coming from us, you users? But how do you know that our laps are clean without incidents with a wall or other cars or even of track experiences?

Another question on the g-belt: as I often have some neck pain when driving in the gs-5 I set the back panels to a fairly low setting with filtering etc. Will the g-belt unit create more violent shocks in the neck or rather less?

Thanks!!

Paul
 
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I rather use your foundation ffb which I prefer largely over in game ffb (in all my games: rFactor 2 AMS2, iracing and ACC). Is there a way to set this choice per default instead of game ffb and dampening? Or do I have to change it once for all and then it is memorised?

By default, our profiles have Game Force Feedback enabled and our alternative Steering Foundation Feedback disabled.

With cloud tuning, you only need one profile per game. If you prefer not to use the game provided force feedback and instead use our alternative steering foundation feedback, then you will need to manually flip the game force feedback toggle switch to off and the steering foundation toggle switch to on. This is done on a per profile basis.

This setting will remain in that profile unless you use the 'reset to defaults' feature.
 
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Thanks for this first part of the reply!! When you say that you're collecting data, how do you do this? Is it data coming from us, you users? But how do you know that our laps are clean without incidents with a wall or other cars or even of track experiences?

We are moving towards a model which basically requires that users contribute to the community cloud tuning data in order to partake of it.

For the last 4-5 years, when you install Sim Commander, it asks you if you want to enable Owners Club collaboration.

jEQS0HN.jpg


The learn more link, which describes data collection can be seen here: https://simxperience.com/en-us/home/ownersclubdatacollectionpolicy.aspx

With regard to filtering out of nonsense data, that's why we needed to collect data for so many years before releasing the feature. We need to get enough data to have observed all meaningful track lines and to rule out anomalous data. It's a fairly complex process.
 
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We are moving towards a model which basically requires that users contribute to the community cloud tuning data in order to partake of it.

For the last 4-5 years, when you install Sim Commander, it asks you if you want to enable Owners Club collaboration.

jEQS0HN.jpg


The learn more link, which describes data collection can be seen here: https://simxperience.com/en-us/home/ownersclubdatacollectionpolicy.aspx

With regard to filtering out of nonsense data, that's why we needed to collect data for so many years before releasing the feature. We need to get enough data to have observed all meaningful track lines and to rule out anomalous data. It's a fairly complex process.
Thanks,

This is a very bold undertaking (collecting and interpreting all this data). Impressive.

I've been using it (cloud tuning) since reading these posts and Indeed I'm ready now to use only one profile per game instead of tenth or more. What I also like is that the changes I make in the main and unique profile are now applied/used for all cars in one go. No need to change all the profiles with this change!
 
Please someone do a youtube review on this product, I am very interested but a little hesitant to spend over £1k without seeing it in action :)

There have been several driving videos on YouTube with the G-Belt and/or G-Seat, but there isn't much to see. Both are sustained body pressure devices. They don't throw you around like most of the motion systems you see on the market these days. This naturally makes them great for use with VR and capable of providing feedback to the driver in cases where motion devices cannot, but it also makes them incredibly difficult to sell in a video.

This illustration will probably tell you more than any driving video would:


That said, Richard Macnaughtan did a very thorough review of the G-Belt on the iRacing forum. If you are a member there, here is the link: SimXperience G-Belt Review | iRacing.com Member Forum
 
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We are moving towards a model which basically requires that users contribute to the community cloud tuning data in order to partake of it.

For the last 4-5 years, when you install Sim Commander, it asks you if you want to enable Owners Club collaboration.

jEQS0HN.jpg


The learn more link, which describes data collection can be seen here: https://simxperience.com/en-us/home/ownersclubdatacollectionpolicy.aspx

With regard to filtering out of nonsense data, that's why we needed to collect data for so many years before releasing the feature. We need to get enough data to have observed all meaningful track lines and to rule out anomalous data. It's a fairly complex process.
Thanks,

So if I understand it correctly cloud tuning fills in the maximum g-forces for all effects and I then can set the effect sliders to whatever I want. And I'm assured that when setting them under or up to 100% I will get no clipping at all? Right? 100% on the effect slider will guarantee therefore full panel range use?

However how do you ensure that if I set all effects to 100% there is no clipping on for example the left bottom panel when for breaking and turning to the right at the same time? I agree that normally you wouldn't do that be just for the sake of theory.
 
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Yes. 100% is full panel travel or very near it assuming you can drive the car to its limit.

The peaks are what they are. We just fill in the truth. With a default profile you will get the ideal experience.

The adjustments exist for those who want something other than the ideal experience. For example, if you have a back or neck problem you might want far less of the cornering effect in the G-Belt. There are also people who prefer heavy clipping despite our best efforts to explain that it robs them of important driving information, etc... It's basically impossible to tell a sim racer what "right" is, even when you can prove it. Different strokes for different folks.

When time permits, I'll make a video on how to measure and display clipping on a track map in the Sim Commander Visual Lap Analyzer. The picture is worth a thousand words.
 
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Hello all,

Some considerations about Sim Experience and G-Belt:

1) the customer support is truly excellent: I have often asked for suggestions and advice regarding the configuration of the steering wheel and G-Belt and I got an answer in literally a few minutes !!!;

2) G_Belt is a "game changer" regarding immersion in driving simulation;

I own :
Accuforce V2, NextLevelRacing V3; Next Level Racing Motion Pro; G-Belt by Sim Experience.

I can assure you that G-Belt (Last added to my configuration above) certainly has increased the immersion by at least 20/30%.
Please note that G-Belt costs me around $ 1000 and the rest of my setup cost me around $ 10,000.

So, i everyone recommend this accessory, it is absolutely worth all the money it costs.

Mario Moretti from Italy
 
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5 point harness is fitted to mine no problem, slots are as per a race car seat, after all this is a Kirkey race car seat :) I have anchored it to my 8020 frame all around.
 
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