Simulation and reality.

[manu68]

As maybe some other members here, I recently had the opportunity to drive a real race car on a real track .
I just wanted to share this experience with you.

I am a huge fan of Porsche 911 since I was a young boy, and until know I never had the opportunity to drive or even seat into a real one.
I just would say that there is so many other priorities in the real life

My wife offered me this year a session on track for my 50th birthday.
What a surprise !

I have driven a Porsche 996 GT3 cup with manual gearbox at the track Anneau du rhin

(here is sebastien Loeb driving , 9 time Rally WRC world champion ; just for you to know the track)

Simulation is one thing, driving a real pure 400cv race track with slicks tyres on a real track a total another thing.
Some people would say , it is "just" a 996 cup. It is not a formula one or a crazy GT Le mans series . it is "just 400 cv" . After all, we can drive so many more powerful cars within assetto corsa without any difficulties.

My only humble comment is that it has been a thrilling experience.
The car is a BEAST, a MONSTER for someone not used to do that.
I was wearing an Helmet, and after 10 laps I was almost deaf . It is almost impossible to breathe during the curve, the car vibrates, screams, ..... It is just insane.
your FOV is limited to the track.
Just leaving the pit on 1rst gear is a challenge . The clutch is about 2 cm, the gear box makes noise and seems to be blocked, the all car seems to be about to explode
Until 4000 trs/min, it is scary, beetween 4000 and 6000 tr/min, it is crazy, and above it is unreal.
you dont drive anymore, the car goes forward and it is like you are about to be projected through your recaro seat
The slick tyres have about NO limits on such track.
same thing for the brakes. When you are approching the curves at 200 km/h or more and you have to brake at 50 m, your just think you are going to die , nothing less .

After driving myself, I could make some "real" laps with a professional driven, as a passenger.
It is really difficult to keep your eyes open. you just can barely move because of the G forces, especially by braking.
And then you just wonder how can such car be driven during real race !

Assetto corsa has a lot of sensation to offer, and we can drive many beautiful cars.
But it remains that the real life on track is a totally different thing.

I have probably exagerated, but for a normal guy it is about what you feel the first time in such a car, which would be totally undrivable on public roads.

 

[ouvert]

I rember I was almost unable to heel&toe i when turning hard left with higher G as my right leg was pushed to the central panel (well with proper racing seat you dont have that issues) ... and that was only 250 HP sport edition of road car on P Zeros ... where braking from 220 to slow turn is fun as hell .. when you realize your brake faded and 150m is gonna by just jsut enough ..

your wife is cool btw

 

[Taranta]

Physical sensations ...
one thing is sitting in the room ...
however passenger and driver great difference
in the real life race there is no ice driving ...unless there is ice

 

[Kek700]

Spent most of my life in competition cars and fast road cars, and to be quite honest I really do
not see much difference. Especially with the quality of sims you get now.
When in a competition car you are so focused on the job in hand you really do not actually
notice much In the same way you do in a road car.
You have a small slot in your crash helmet to view everything from, so that pretty much equals
A monitor, I admit you have a lack of physical feed back but again this is almost a
Subconscious feeling and this is what makes sim racing difficult.
But and this is a big "BUT" you do not have to worry about very costly damage
You do not have to worry about costly engine rebuilds
You do not have to worry about costly frequent tyre replacements.
You do not have to worry about buying a motor home.
You do not have to worry about the expense of getting it all to the circuit.
You do not have to worry about injury or death.
I get the same satisfaction without all the agro, even having all the cash in the world would not
remove all of the disadvantages of real life.

 

[RasmusP]

Really nice story! Was fun to read it
I only ever did one handling training from the ADAC (German thing) with ice simulation, getting the rear snapped by a plate etc.
What I would like to hear from you is how you see the handling, the feeling of the wheel etc. compared between real life and simulations (especially AC).
In my opinion AC gets it quite well, catching grip when the fronts are understeering, modulating the brake, wheel control in corners etc.
So the sensation is completely different but I think the handling is really good.

What's your opinion on that?

 

[StefanoCasillo]

Spent most of my life in competition cars and fast road cars, and to be quite honest I really do
not see much difference.

+1
I jumped into an Aventador and just went for it (sometimes even too much ), felt at home from the first corner... but hey, we're all different and perceive things differently.

 

[ouvert]

did you push that Aventador to same limit you are able to do in sim?

 

[RasmusP]

did you push that Aventador to same limit you are able to do in sim?

You meant: did the aventador pushed him to his limits as he pushes the car in the sim

 

[StefanoCasillo]

did you push that Aventador to same limit you are able to do in sim?

I went over ... couple of times long at campagnano corner.. luckily it was tarmac on the outside.
But it really doesn't matter in this discussion that is trying to pitch the "it's a monster, it's different than a sim".. in my experience it just isn't...at least if we are talking about "fast road cars".. if we move into the cars with high level of downforce then it's an whole different story as it becomes physically demanding, something not every armchair simracer can handle, surely I can't

 

[Kek700]

Not sure who you mean to answer this Rasmus, but I will give my humble option anyway.

You have two senses in sim racing , 2 diamentional sight and steering wheel feel.

In a real car you are being bombarded with many inputs, smell, fear, consequences,
true 3 D sight, G, steering Feel , physical sensations, wind ( single seater ) ,
it is worth noting that these sensation are in perfect harmony.

When you press the brake a physical sensation of - G, plus and minus cornering G and
consequences.
Although most , you do not actually take prime notice, they still exist, so things that
are in sim racing become more important.

The steering feel I get in sim racing is exactly what you receive in real life in my opinion
( excluding helpful canned effects ) ( not power steering, that just numbs steering ).

Brakes do not seem anything like a race car, but the visual effect are very close, they just
do not come with the same consequences. Although I think they are accurately simulated.

In sim racing you drive basically on steering and 2 diamentional sight.
So steering and 2D sight become heightened.

I find it quite amazing that assetto corsa gives you such a accurate feeling of reality
Including the steering feel, I think we are so lucky to get such an experience for
what in past generations would be impossible to achieve with out very large lumps of cash.

The understeer and oversteer feeling is very accurately reproduced in my option , as I said in a real
car other things happen at the same time, motion of the car , fear, consequences, altering G.

It is worth noting in a road car things happen in a more singular fashion, because the speeds are so much slower, you just have more time to think about each action. Gt3 cars
or tatuus around Zandvoort is a good example, you just do not fully comprehend
the speeds obtained and again the consequences.

This is were the aliens excell in my opinion, the ability to convert the 2D vision into a
feeling of the cars limit
People like me cannot, I tend to oscillate between not fast enough, to too fast in a corner.

Sorry to be so obvious , I just like the sound of my finger on the iPad.

 

[ouvert]

when it comes to aliens I think it is more about their ability to go beyond what is possible in reallife, utilizing gaps between simulation and real life, bending rules, etc .. they are just faster than they should be it is no longer about realism accuracy of that sim ... at least that is what I understand by alien. what you said is just fast guy but dont let me steer it to OT

 

[Kek700]

True, that makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[RasmusP]

Cheers guys! I really enjoy reading about your experiences!
I'm just a student without any real motorsport experience. Just an old MB C-Class that is warbling around at every turn, has only 120 HP and no locking differential. And 1x Karting about 5 years ago before I really got into simracing.
It's really good to hear that my impressions seem to be fitting and are not just dreams of an inexperienced boy

 

[2112]

I know what you are saying about not being able to see. I have never driven a real race car and living in Southern California I rarely get a chance to really open up my Focus ST.

But I work with a guy who owns a BMW 330i ( I think) who does speed runs at airports. He got rid of the two turbos and installed an 80mm turbo. He took me for a ride...

Once he punched it the back end broke loose. He got the car under control and it shot forward. We did three short (1/4 mile) runs and each time it felt like my eyeballs were compressing under the G's.

I think acceleration and the physicality of driving a race car is something you must get acclimated to, just like anything else that takes a high degree of skill.

Sounds like you had fun and have a great wife!

 

[Brandon Wright]

But it really doesn't matter in this discussion that is trying to pitch the "it's a monster, it's different than a sim".. in my experience it just isn't...at least if we are talking about "fast road cars"..

But that's a street car. I believe the OP is talking about a race prepped cup car and I would imagine the loudness of the engine, the stiffness of the brakes and transmission, combined with the response of the car, would probably be a bit overwhelming to someone who hasn't ever driven one of these cars. At least that's how I read it, it wasn't so much about the performance of the car as it was the overall sensory experience and being in an actual raw race car would be quite a step up from the sensory experience we get in our sim rig. I rode shotgun in a race prepped WRX on an AutoX course and nothing in my sim racing experience prepared me for the sheer brutality of riding in that car, I was physically shaking for sometime afterward. Sure, piloting my own WRX around the same course felt like second nature to me and was a non-issue, but riding in the race prepped version was a very different experience.

 

[Michael Hornbuckle]

In real life just the difference between riding and driving is huge. Add in an open exhaust system, slick tires, racing transmission, racing suspension....yeah, pretty much sensory overload.

 

[Kek700]

I can only speak from what I have experienced, i would not think twice about jumping into
a gt3 car as a driver, ( perhaps not at my age ) but you would have to drag me in as a passenger.
All the noise , vibration , straight cut gearbox noise acceleration is just generally ignored all you
you do is concentrate on a distant apex and braking point and getting up and down
The gearbox, you just do not have time to notice all the things that a passenger
would observe.
Now a F1 car would almost certainly be a bit overwhelming, but we are talking about
A multi million pound item with 1600bhp/ton vehicle.

"And as said "if you just jumped into a GT3 car from a road car it would be overwhelming..

 

[Brandon Wright]

In real life just the difference between riding and driving is huge. Add in an open exhaust system, slick tires, racing transmission, racing suspension....yeah, pretty much sensory overload.

No doubt, and I know if I'd been driving instead of a being a passenger then it wouldn't have been as brutal but it would have still been an eye-opening experience and got the adrenaline pumping.

All the noise , vibration , straight cut gearbox noise acceleration is just generally ignored all you
you do is concentrate on a distant apex and braking point and getting up and down
The gearbox, you just do not have time to notice all the things that a passenger
would observe.

For sure, once you're used to it. But you're first time when you have zero experience driving such a car I'm sure it's all still a bit overwhelming and intimidating. After you have some time to get comfortable with the car it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[HypoToad]

Assetto corsa has a lot of sensation to offer, and we can drive many beautiful cars.
But it remains that the real life on track is a totally different thing.

Sounds like an experience and a half, and like I say these are still games, their fun, but not the real thing, I have MS Flight Sim and have been in a real 727 cockpit for take off and landing, the game is nothing like the real thing, your life is not on the line for a start, but it's fun to dream.

 

[manu68]

But that's a street car. I believe the OP is talking about a race prepped cup car and I would imagine the loudness of the engine, the stiffness of the brakes and transmission, combined with the response of the car, would probably be a bit overwhelming to someone who hasn't ever driven one of these cars. At least that's how I read it, it wasn't so much about the performance of the car as it was the overall sensory experience and being in an actual raw race car would be quite a step up from the sensory experience we get in our sim rig. I rode shotgun in a race prepped WRX on an AutoX course and nothing in my sim racing experience prepared me for the sheer brutality of riding in that car, I was physically shaking for sometime afterward. Sure, piloting my own WRX around the same course felt like second nature to me and was a non-issue, but riding in the race prepped version was a very different experience.

It is about exactly that.
The fact is that it is a RACE car, and not a street 911 Porsche.
As soon as you open the door, you understand that it will be something special.
It is not the speed itself (I live at the border with germany and I am used to drive at about 200 km/h on german "Autobahn", but the global sensation .
The car is probably very light for the power, and the noise / vibration inside is huge. And of course, I never drive my car (or assetto corsa ) with an helmet and a radio to communicate.
A Porsche 911 is probably (I don't own one myself) an "easy" car to drive daily. But this CUP model is in my opinion just undrivable on public roads (there is GT3 on the streets, but not GT3 cup which are not homologated for public roads).

And what makes the big big difference (I think) are the slick tyres.
For someone like me, it changes all the habits we can have, because the car is absolutely stuck on the road, it seems to be NO limits at the speed I was able to drive. you need to turn more , just turn !
Very surprising, it comes no noise from the tyres, not like in our simulation (and the motor is so loud, that it is about impossible toear something else )

I could learn the track on Rfactor before to go, and I had no surprise because of that. Simulation is great for that.
The handling of the car itself is also not a big problem.
The steering is stiff, but as soon as the car is moving it is just perfect. You don't need (you musn't !) to move your hands from the wheel at anytime for any curve on the track (except the short moment for changing gears of course)
The brakes sensation is about like on a normal car (the pedal is pretty hard to push but nothing impossible), but incredibly efficient (I have read that it is like that on all porsche 911).
The gear box is perfect, but very short and stiff.

The car is well balanced, but with just ONE condition.
You must (Instruction from the Instructor on the passenger seat) ALWAYS maintain some gas , even by braking, to avoid the weight from the back comimg transfering suddenly to the front. If not doing so, you can spin suddenly in a second without understanding anything
It is something we can already "feel" on assetto corsa with the Porsche 911, but on the real car you physically feel it.

Voilà !
It is about all I could say about my experience.
I don't own a sport car and probably never own one.
I drive daily a Mercedes C 220 CDi and a brand new Honda jazz (very nice little car)
For some people it may be "nothing special"to drive such car, but for me it has been a special moment.
It is something I would highly recommand at everybody in the Simracing community.