'SimShaker - Wheels' support thread

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=Andre=

Andre
Here you can get help with "SimShaker - Wheels" issues and questions.

SimShaker - Wheels is a mediation software between a supported car simulation game and Gametrix JetSeat or well known Buttckicker hardware to provide immersing event driven vibration FXs (special effects).
Currently supported PC titles: iRacing, Assetto Corsa, Automobilista, rFactor 2, DiRT Rally, Project CARS, Project CARS2, ETS2, ATS, F1 2016/2017 and RRRE.
Currently supported console titles: F1 2016.
 
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DesKane

dksRacing Kaney
Thank you for the feedback, Des Kane :)
What is that 'less is more'? I don't quite understand...


Hey Andre - I will try and explain, the less is more is basically having the settings not too high to blow your socks off, settings are low - subtle, but have enough impact to give you engine feel with additional effects to create detailing when racing. Don't go mad!

Updated SSW to now '2.29 Beta' - but updated and ran a modified 7.wav compliments of Mr Latte - ' We are also running through iNuke DSP Amps profiles (again Mr Lattes' - little gems) x6 Transducers strategically placed around the rig 'TST and BK Advance Plus x4 other BK Advances' to simulate wheels Chassis etc.

First impressions of Engine Beat are pretty good, - Running only in AC with the Ferrari FXX and 388 GT3.
Tested on Road America Track as it has long straights so you can get a real feel of the engine effect at speed

For me and BK placement for my rig - I ran the FXX with a start effect of 70% played about with at 65% and this wasn't too bad either but 70% is about right for this car, just depends on where you want it to kick in, and the Gain set to 20% tried +2% anymore and its just a bit too much rattle so not realistic, I had all effects off and have introduced Just Gear Change, just to get a feel of how the engine effect feels, I do like the way it does crescendo when you accelerate and then blip when braking hard changing down for corners, for me it is one of them less is more, but very glad its part of the mix, have introduced a bit of wheel slip and my rig is shaking under racing but all very controlled, but liking this so far.

Also ran the Ferrari 388 GT3 as it's slightly more refined than the FXX and less angry - and this felt damn good, settings within SSW Engine Beat was set to 'Start Effect 60%' and 'Gain 35%' for this car, I did have Gear Shift on for both cars and this was set to 30%.

Overall gave a nice controlled effect, sure more testing to do by introducing the other effects to make sure the engine feel is still there and the detailing of the road gearchange and all the other elements are maintained in this balancing act of immersion. :)
 
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Mr Latte

Premium
Mr Latte, I've published beta version 2.29 with some minor improvements and extended RPM/Max RPM data logging. Hopefully that will help us to catch the issue.

>> I cant get it to stop (even with effect check box ticked off)
Fixed.


Great news, busy today so won't get to try this new update until tomorrow.
I did think it maybe needed just a tad more boost for the last 5-10% to just help emphasise the sensation of full engine load @ max RPM. Although like I said, I need more time with it and will try creating various wav files to achieve really good and satisfying feel for this effect.

Im sure people will be keen to see this added to other sims as well.

Thank you for looking into this so quickly and it's great that you listen and work with the community.
 
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Mr Latte

Premium
Just a point to note,,,,

The .wav I created that Des is referring to combines 15Hz 30Hz 60Hz waveforms at different amplitudes but I had the combined effect saved at 0dB amplitude and operating over all 6 channels not just 4. This why he is likely using restricted volume (20%).

I think most want something satisfying but not annoying as it is quite consistent.
I found in Simvibe with layers boosting mainly that last 10% gave a nice sensation and helps the driver know they are at the max limit of the rpm in a satisfying way to change gear. Also with downshifts if having a bit more of a peak with max rpm this can also be satisfying as the rpm drops.

Just an idea but if it can be implemented in the next beta update to let people determine if its preferred or should be as it is?
 
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=Andre=

Andre
Just a point to note,,,,

The .wav I created that Des is referring to combines 15Hz 30Hz 60Hz waveforms at different amplitudes but I had the combined effect saved at 0dB amplitude and operating over all 6 channels not just 4. This why he is likely using restricted volume (20%).

I think most want something satisfying but not annoying as it is quite consistent.
I found in Simvibe with layers boosting mainly that last 10% gave a nice sensation and helps the driver know they are at the max limit of the rpm in a satisfying way to change gear. Also with downshifts if having a bit more of a peak with max rpm this can also be satisfying as the rpm drops.

Just an idea but if it can be implemented in the next beta update to let people determine if its preferred or should be as it is?
I haven't got the idea. What would you expecting from me?
I think one can easily set triggering slider at 90% of RPM to get those last 10%.
 
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=Andre=

Andre
I did think it maybe needed just a tad more boost for the last 5-10% to just help emphasise the sensation of full engine load @ max RPM.
Do you mean a kind of stair step in gain at 95%?
I'd rather added one more vibration starting at 95%, using a dedicated sample with a different tone (set of tones), to emphasise that stress.
 
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Mr Latte

Premium
Do you mean a kind of stair step in gain at 95%?
I'd rather added one more vibration starting at 95%, using a dedicated sample with a different tone (set of tones), to emphasise that stress.


Okay, yeah I get what you mean....
A MAX RPM engine load effect working separately.

That may actually be better with its own individual waveform, (feel heavier) rather than using a step with the same repeating (no.7) .wav.

Q.
Is it possible to have this also adjustable so it could be adaptable for lots of different cars?
Operating as start point from say 85% upto 95%
Yet limit the "General RPM" (no.7) working to the % starting point set for a new "MAX RPM" effect.

Eg:
MAX RPM %
Starting at 85%
Adjustable start point upto 95%
Working upto 100%

General RPM (current no7)
Working from adjustable % slider eg 70%
Restricted to the % of the MAX based RPM effect

If user sets "MAX RPM" to Start at 90% it will go up to 100% RPM
The "General RPM" will start at the % given (eg 70%) by the user but then work upto in this example 90%
At 90% the "MAX RPM" effect would begin and work upto 100%.


Is this possible, I think it could be really good if so...
 
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=Andre=

Andre
Okay, yeah I get what you mean....
A MAX RPM engine load effect working separately.

That may actually be better with its own individual waveform, (feel heavier) rather than using a step with the same repeating (no.7) .wav.

Q.
Is it possible to have this also adjustable so it could be adaptable for lots of different cars?
Operating as start point from say 85% upto 95%
Yet limit the "General RPM" (no.7) working to the % starting point set for a new "MAX RPM" effect.

Eg:
MAX RPM %
Starting at 85%
Adjustable start point upto 95%
Working upto 100%

General RPM (current no7)
Working from adjustable % slider eg 70%
Restricted to the % of the MAX based RPM effect

If user sets "MAX RPM" to Start at 90% it will go up to 100% RPM
The "General RPM" will start at the % given (eg 70%) by the user but then work upto in this example 90%
At 90% the "MAX RPM" effect would begin and work upto 100%.


Is this possible, I think it could be really good if so...
I've been thinking of it, but I don't quite like the idea to stop one vibration and start another. Seems to be unnatural and there may occur a noticeable lag, switch, etc. I think first of all I will try to add extra vibration at 95% not stopping the first one.
 
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Mr Latte

Premium
I've been thinking of it, but I don't quite like the idea to stop one vibration and start another. Seems to be unnatural and there may occur a noticeable lag, switch, etc. I think first of all I will try to add extra vibration at 95% not stopping the first one.

Well yeah, we don't want a disjointed or interrupted sequence between each but I dont think it would be that hard to have the secondary MAX RPM based file blend in with the General RPM file. Yet them both have a unique feel or sensation.

As a different file altogether (like you suggested) will give more options than just an amplitude boost or step. It would even be possible to have some engines feel more aggressive perhaps than others but I do not know your own intentions, whats possible or ideas if in the future if wanting to allow users to load "car profiles" using groups of different wav files and not just the current option of all cars use the same .wav files and profiles are only used for the slider controls settings etc.

Smooth Blend
I suppose you could also have the General RPM begin to fade out as the MAX RPM file is used.
Whatever you decide to do I look forward to trying to get some good files up and ready to test for a public release in the near future.

In doing past trials some time ago, with engine layers for this same purpose in Simvibe. Be they for "Speed" based or "RPM" based engine layers I cant say lag or annoying switch between two layers was annoying or an issue regards this implementation of giving the last % additional energy sensation. It can add to the excitement and enjoyment as a nice touch.

Keen to see what you implement will hope to get into testing the recent update in the next day or so...
 
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DesKane

dksRacing Kaney
I've been thinking of it, but I don't quite like the idea to stop one vibration and start another. Seems to be unnatural and there may occur a noticeable lag, switch, etc. I think first of all I will try to add extra vibration at 95% not stopping the first one.


This could be amazing ........ I totally get this now what Mr Latte is asking to implement. Andre this overlayed second wav to give the feeling of a strong BLIP for the engine rev when changing down, on top of the current engine setting, you can feel it now but it isn't that strong (but its there) but to add this and have that control (WOW) - and again also when racing at the top end, if you have ever raced when you hit the top end of your engine, your eyeballs can fall out :) - but you most definitely can feel the engine crescendo stress/vibration before shifting up when racing through the gears to the maximum - how synchronized would the independent wavs have to have to be !?

This would be quite a thing if possible ............... this for me would be the CENTRE of all the effects within SSW and then add additional effects to suite around the engine vibration.
 
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Mr Latte

Premium
I dont think this will be that hard to accomplish but satisfaction in gear changes and maxing out the RPM from a tactile perspective is indeed a very key element to its enjoyment and general immersion. To some extents, we want a bit of an abrupt change (car dependant perhaps) in the RPM when the engine is hitting its own maximum vibration and engine load. This is what audio does not generally try to replicate but we can implement with this type of effect.

A standard "MAX RPM" effect would be nice with a set % but why limit it to that?

Example:
A Ferrari 599XX at max RPM should not feel the same as an Abarth
Both should not have their max engine load happening at the same % from their own maximum RPM values.
While this may work and feel okay...

However, Looking Beyond?
With an adjustable % solution or other option like being able to use different .wav files for the RPM character. This would enable the ability to have engine sensations match better a type of car being driven.

Today I have been playing around with just getting a feel for using different "fundamental" frequencies for the RPM effect and then adding two "harmonics" which seems enough can create a nice RPM sensation. A single tone is too limited but using tones that harmonically are matched can work well for this purpose.

Engine Harmonics
Really this, is similar to how Simvibe uses its "harmonic engine mode" as what most people do not know or is not shown is that it simply just pushes back the value of the "fundamental frequency" So a user can select between V4 - V12 to suit cars with much different RPM ranges. It's not complicated but allows matching the Hz (and the harmonics used) to work best with the RPM in the way Simvibe generates its tones.

The difference here is we are repeating a sequence of tones already saved and built into a .wav file. So while it maybe avoids some issues. I do hope you consider Andre, some method that brings allows, users to select different .wav files to not have ALL cars feel similar.

Small Steps
Welcome your thoughts on this and own possible ideas/solutions.
You could do similar and have already pre-made .wav easily selectable to also offer V4-V12 types of cars. This way the RPM sensation can be heavier or milder depending on the Hz and harmonics used and the amplitude we give them. Needs some testing but I think this is possible on my end if you have the option available.

I dont know if you want to consider the ability for a user to have a unique SSW "effects profile" on a car level. What are peoples thoughts?

Are people even interested in loading a car preset that has been purposely made?
This is something that certainly is possible and Simvibe failed to do in having available to download purpose made and tested effects for engine, bumps, suspension and feel for the loads it generates.

In my head thats what I maybe would like the ability to have for at least my own most favorite cars.
Of course I can already do this by just replacing the customizable effects with new ones but thats a pain in the back side. Having the ability to select a "new location" for different cars would be worth experimenting with if you ever get time or like the idea.

Just sharing ideas as enjoy discussing but look forward to your continued efforts.
Ive already improved the effect I first used for the 599XX to something that feels more Ferrari * screaming high revs. So applying more feeling and sensation in the higher Hz.
 
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DesKane

dksRacing Kaney
Like the sound of that Rodders - Already swaying to my favourite cars within AC - PCARS2 and now just starting to create specific pre saved 'Presets' to suite the car/Sim I am in, as now with the addition of the Engine Tone and the editability of this, which is great, this changes all the effects dramatically, with the Engine Tone being at the centre of these effects and as said all the cars are different, so it is worth the attention and effort of getting the best from each car.
 
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Mr Latte

Premium
Your starting to sound like a converted SSW fanatic from being a Simvibe user, lol :thumbsup:
Its all coming together rather nice....

I will get PCars 2 on sale maybe this one or Jan.
Got enough going on, to keep me busy and will be doing a new build for my own rig/tactile after Christmas all being well.
 
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