SimLabs GT1 build log (includes NLV3 motion platform mounting)

[anton_Chez]

It starts.....

5 weeks ago I decided to pull the trigger on a chassis upgrade after building an 'Anthony Room' extension on the bottom level of my house. I ordered a SimLabs GT1 80 / 20 cockpit after hearing so many good things about this type of material for sim racing cockpits.

It arrived this afternoon.

After 50kg's worth of aluminium made its way from the Netherlands to Australia, it still had an hour drive home from work before we could get started.

My games room:

Cleaning up whatever was in the way in the yet to be completed move-in, I made room to begin the build. Half the components of my new build are yet to arrive. As some may know, I also decided that nowhere near enough money was spend on the chassis and decided to upgrade to an OSW direct drive wheel, HE Pro Pedals and handbrake. 2 Buttkicker Mini LFE's will also replace my 4 Aura Bass Shakers used on the previous build. As you can see I was quite eager to try them and 5 weeks is a long wait for anything in sim racing. They are screwed to an old table and I've been running them while driving with a game pad sitting at my PC, in-between them.

It's highly NOT recommended to try and drive with a game pad, FYI.....

Getting on to crack open the boxes now.

Everything was pretty well packed and nothing seems to be damaged. @Mascot was right about the lack of instructions.... None whatsoever. Just knowing what the parts are for would have been enough, but I assume that they all go together a particular way and you would know if a part was wrong as long as you follow a logical build structure. One slightly disappointing thing was that I received the standard, cheaper Fanatec shifter mount (one I originally had in the cart) but I ordered the more expensive, round looking one. I am sure I can make it work. If I get the extra parts that I requested, I'll be happy. Who knows, I may not even need it and just use it as a Buttkicker mount for the rear....

Time to get started.

Bottom frame loosely together to allow for adjustments before I tighten down and pull everything into square. Nice of SimLabs to include the rubber feet of the P1 in my GT1 build. On their site it states you get plastic feet which in the pictures do look slightly higher and obviously a different material to the rubber included in the P1. I appreciate that. I do have some rubber isolation coming for the seat and pedals and planned on using the left overs for the feet. Well they aren't here yet and as @Mascot pointed out, put the feet on before you get too far into the build. I have to change pedals soon anyway and will sort all of the above ground stuff out later. Much easier to get to than turning the chassis upside down once the monitors are on.....

A side note. I was worried how much room this chassis would take behind my desk chair here (my PC is to the left of the chassis in the photo). It's footprint is actually pretty good as you can see. You can measure all you like before hand but nothing is like actually having the item in the place where it's going to be sitting. I think I'll be OK.

A quick look at how the V3 platform fits inside the seat mounting frame. The gap either side of the bottom frame is actually not too bad. Spacers might have worked and allowed me to drop into the frame a bit better than what I have planned. I do have an idea though, and will try that once I get some food into me and continue the build. You can see the absolutely shocking drill out I had to do on the rear of the top frame of the platform to accommodate the seat slider and H frame on the old chassis. These are both gone now and the build will be much better for it. The lower I can get this platform the more options I have when choosing a seating position. I've always wanted to have my feet high and stuck out way in front to simulate being in an open wheeler. Hopefully this chassis and what I have planned for the V3 mount will allow this.

Having fun so far

So, the original (above) brackets I had in mind were a little too long. The platform barely sits above the carpet. Which is great for seating position but not so great for the fan underneath. So, I had some others lying around I was intending on using for Buttkicker mounts, that I don't think I will need. They also look HEAPS stronger, and will also bring the platform up enough for me to be comfortable with ventilation. Very similar to the single piece @Mascot had fabricated but not as nice

Mounting platform now.

So the second bracket option is a no go as well. The bolt heads hit up against the profile because of the different drop in the bracket. I've conceded that for tonight, at least, I am reverting back to plan A and taking it from there. I want to get most of this together tonight and if I spend any longer perfecting the V3 mount I may well have no time for anything else. The V3 does sit a fair bit higher this way, but it's something I can come back to later on without too much fuss, I'd say. With it in front of me I have a much better chance of knowing what will work best.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

Cool, I'll look into this.

Another way to consider this is you're balancing the overall feedback coming from around your rig. I can tell you tactile effects from the NL software are inferior to SimVibe. There are fewer effects and they just don't have the realism of SimVibe. Though it must still be a better solution than running through audio alone being able to tune specific effects.

If you we're running a bunch of transducers then the NL tactile software would really be doing a disservice to the setup. With a single transducer it's not such a bad option. I still use the NL tactile instead of SimVibe if I'm too lazy to launch it.

 

[Mascot]

Another way to consider this is you're balancing the overall feedback coming from around your rig. I can tell you tactile effects from the NL software are inferior to SimVibe. There are fewer effects and they just don't have the realism of SimVibe. Though it must still be a better solution than running through audio alone being able to tune specific effects.

If you we're running a bunch of transducers then the NL tactile software would really be doing a disservice to the setup. With a single transducer it's not such a bad option. I still use the NL tactile instead of SimVibe if I'm too lazy to launch it.

I'm not expecting anything revolutionary by using the NLV3 software to drive the BK but I'm hoping it'll be more consistent and controllable than the audio feed from my sub. Some cars on tickover would be shaking my fillings loose.

 

[anton_Chez]

So, new hardware has arrived

OSW is here and I picked up my new 35" panel to replace my triples for anything non VR compatible. I am getting busy with the wheel base now so hopefully I have it mounted tonight, and can take something for a spin.

So after a weekend of finding solutions for random things as well as actually having some hardware to mount, this is where I am at.

OSW and new monitor mounted. This thing is HEAVY.

Button boxes have been re-jigged and mounted to the uprights using the two left over VESA mounts that I never used for second and third monitors. I cut off the CSW shaped mounts and now the fit nicely behind the wheel. Quite happy with how these turned out and they actually feel stronger now than when mounted to the CSW.

It's starting to look like a build now Pedals still missing but they aren't far away.

 

[Mascot]

Good spending sir!

 

[Mascot]

@AntoN_CheZ Just curious as to why you went for the wheel deck for your GT1 instead of the front mount? Your old CSW (like my CSR-E) can face mount to it, as can your new OSW of course.

 

[anton_Chez]

I have the CSW mounted button boxes from DSD. They wouldn't have worked with the front mount. Plus, I didn't know what wheel I was going to end up with in the future so I gathered the deck might be more compatible with whatever I ended up with. I have to now work out how to mount the button boxes. I may mod them to fit the OSW as there are OSW mountable ones too now.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

I have the CSW mounted button boxes from DSD. They wouldn't have worked with the front mount. Plus, I didn't know what wheel I was going to end up with in the future so I gathered the deck might be more compatible with whatever I ended up with. I have to now work out how to mount the button boxes. I may mod them to fit the OSW as there are OSW mountable ones too now.

I’ve just gone mine attached in a RAM mount one on each side would be much cheaper and easier than any conversion stuff direct from DSD.

Another option could be to just get a sheet of metal or wood, cut a hole out the middle and then drill holes for the OSW and CSW DSD to mount to.

 

[Mascot]

I’ve just gone mine attached in a RAM mount one on each side would be much cheaper and easier than any conversion stuff direct from DSD.

Another option could be to just get a sheet of metal or wood, cut a hole out the middle and then drill holes for the OSW and CSW DSD to mount to.

That's a sexy handbrake Furnace - is it for sale..?

 

[anton_Chez]

Yeah I was going to get everything mounted and then work around that with what space is left. I've removed the triples so I might have some spare room on the sides now depending how I mount them. I'll think of something once it's there. It's taking me forever.

 

[Mascot]

Come on @AntoN_CheZ don't leave us hanging! How is the OSW mofo?

 

[Jeremy Ford]

He used 100% FFB and lost both his arms on the first corner!

 

[anton_Chez]

Hey dudes, I've just got it up and running. Driving with no pedals is a little weird but still this thing feels mad.

I haven't tuned a thing and I'm basically running the same settings of the CSW V2.5

I'll post a few more pics now that I have connected everything up.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Hey dudes, I've just got it up and running. Driving with no pedals is a little weird but still this thing feels mad.

I haven't tuned a thing and I'm basically running the same settings of the CSW V2.5

I'll post a few more pics now that I have connected everything up.

First thing, you’ll need to start turning the in-game gain/FFB down which seems countintuitive as you have more power but you’ll soon learn that 100% is not actually set for real life forces. It’s more like a boost for low end wheels but on a DD wheel you’ll get a load of software and eventually hardware clipping that you wouldn’t notice as easily on the belt and gear driven wheels.

 

[anton_Chez]

So finally back up to date with the log. Spent all day Sunday and Monday cleaning up the room, cables and adding the finishing touches. Since I can't drive yet without pedals I've been using the downtime to get everything that I can sorted out before they get here.

I did some decorating and managed to rig up a quite neat looking wheel mount. When the McLaren GT3 rim FINALLY makes it to Australia, I will have 3 rims, so I needed somewhere to put the others when not in use. I like it. Overall the games room is coming on quite nicely and should be completely done in a week or so when I expect to receive the remaining missing parts from SimLabs (and some presents, too) and the sofa bed for my theatre/console portion (the platform in front of the chassis.

Harness was super easy to mount with the 80 20 set up. The profile I mounted my seat to had the perfect amount of overhang for the buckles to attach to both either side and behind the seat. The placement for the buckles is ideal as the harness will be allowed to move with the seat as it moves. You shouldn't connect the harness to an immovable part of the chassis, as it can (but probably won't as you shouldn't have it super tight anyway) damage the motor by causing additional resistance while in use.

I also managed to hack up a keyboard stand that swivels, by using the side arm mounts for the triple monitor stand that was never used. They look like a half moon shape (kind of) and I may or may not keep this. I will give it a go and see how useful / annoying it is once I am actually up and running properly.

Tomorrow the pedals and handbrake get here (as well as a couple of extra HE seq shifters if anyone is interested, Aussie's especially as there is never any stock here from our distributors ) and I will be mounting them as soon as possible. Then, cable management is all that's left aside from adjusting everything to suit the pedals and then a WHOLE lot of tuning and learning the OSW SimuCUBE software and all the settings you can play with. There is also Granity which I am not quite sure what it does, but will have to look up a few OSW threads for some helpful advice / direction.

Quick update: Still waiting on delivery of pedals. UPS thought it was a great idea to send me shipping notice that my delivery was scheduled for Tuesday yet not inform me that the parcel is held in customs until I pay the import duty fees. No email, no phone call, no text message, and no update on the shipping updates page. Nothing. I am super super angry, over $200 worth of shipping costs and I get garbage customer service like that. I have the remaining SimLab gear coming tomorrow and the pedals and handbrake are now due Friday. I did try to get the delivery combined for tomorrow since UPS gave me the royal shaft initially, but of course, they can't do anything and it ships when it ships.

Super super angry. I've enjoyed the build process but I cannot wait until it's complete and I can just stop waiting for things to come in and start using!

Edit 5/13:

FINALLY received the rest of my gear. I also picked up a 600x300mm checker plate for the heel plate I would eventually need to the HE Pro's. I ordered them without the base plate as the 80 20 pedal deck has plenty of room and places to mount them without it. Heel plate cost me around 40% of what the HE base plate would have, probably less.

After calming down at the fury towards UPS, I pressed on with the build

The pedal plate slid in PERFECTLY onto the pedal deck. Initially I expected to cut it to size, but it ended up needed no alteration. Just the holes drilled to line up with the profile slots, which was a little painful on some of them as it needs to be precise for the bolt to line up with the t-nut. Came up pretty tidy. I won't ever need to move the pedals really, as the deck moves as a whole and any adjustment will come from simply loosening the 4 clamps and moving to an appropriate spot. Maybe a slight left right alteration to get the spacing right and MAYBE the brake to allow for efficient heel toe in relation to the throttle, but the Pro's have a slot where the bolt goes through so individual tweaking is still possible. No doubt it's just easier to move the plate as a whole at this point, however.

The handbrake and shifter were a little tricky to mount together on the side mount. I used the profile I got in my second delivery to try and make it work a little better. I have no idea why I ended up with these piece, by the way, as they made no sense in what they were intended for and by no means did I ask for these, but I ended up with them anyway and of course they came in super handy. You can also see the keyboard rest has been changed in this pic. I removed the makeshift swivel that was annoying and mounted one of said weird pieces (120mm profile, short lengths) to the upright and stuck some Velcro on top. Keyboard sits in place while everything is moving and is always at arms reach if needed for random typing or alt-tabbing.

This way the handbrake and shifter are aligned much like a rally car where they are in similar position but at different heights. Super happy with how it turned out and both are easily reachable which is obviously the main goal. It helps that it looks super tidy, of course. I didn't end up needing the 'wingsuit' that HE give you to mount the handbrake as the slots line up with the profile slots when the 120mm profile is turned sideways. Two angle brackets hold the handbrake mount to the underside of the shifter mount and it is SUPER strong this way. Zero flex while pulling handbrake to maximum travel on the hardest (green) bumper.

 

[Mr Latte]

Nice Anton.

Can you draw lines on an image showing how you think the tactile will travel from the back unit into the seat. The paths it can take and then measure the approx distance this is.

I query why you have the unit on the mainframe when the seat has its own 8020 sections?
If installed on this instead. What differences would we have in the possible flow of the tactile to the seat and the distance for the energy to travel?

The great thing with 8020 is that its easy to move and do comparisons.

 

[Ceolmor]

For the OSW advice, you shouldn't need to go much further than the Granite Devices Community threads. https://community.granitedevices.com/

What sims are you using?

 

[anton_Chez]

Thanks @Ceolmor I have briefly had that page up and will definitely dig deeper once I have sorted out the hardware side of the build. Can't wait to have a play with what's available.

@Mr Latte I knew I'd cop flack for this as soon as you saw it, lol I am playing with different ideas for the time being, but unfortunately since there was a mix up with some of my order, I am short on profile that I would have otherwise used to attempt mounting the mini on the actual seat frame. From what I have done with the harness and it's requirement to be on the moving part of the platform, it has taken priority in its mounting location.

I did try mounting to the profile running across the platform at the very beginning, but because it needs to hang off so far for clearance, and because it's mounted to 1.5mm rolled aluminium, I found the piston doing a lot of bouncing compared to the Aura's which are not as powerful, and as a result, the feeling was lost into the air rather than having a path to transmit the energy back to me.

So, I wanted to test what difference it would have made once I moved the mini right over a piece of profile, to stop the bouncing of the temporary mount (I have 2 x mini mounts coming from SimLab now which are 3mm thick). It's miles better and I can feel a lot more that what I could with it closer to the seat but hanging off more. This SHOULD be solved with a thicker mount, but while I do not have it at my disposal, I am killing time by trying as many things as possible while I wait.

I also have found that mounting with the slots as opposed to the holes (meaning it's hanging in mid air where the piston is bouncing) gives you WAY less feedback, clearly because the part that's bouncing is again losing the energy into mid air with only a slight portion going back into the profile. I mounted the mini this way but on the front of the seat mount and I could hardly feel anything even though it seemed closer to me.

I am today going to have another look at mounting the rear in a way that lower frequencies come through more. These are way duller than higher frequencies, I think that the energy is just not being transferred correctly with the way the piston operates at this level. Higher frequencies tend to resonate with the profile a lot better, and I can even feel the vibration from the RIM (using Fanaleds to access the standard rumble feature in Fanatec rims even though I am on an OSW now) all the way through to my chair. It's amazing how that frequency transmits so much better than the lower frequencies.

I will take a few photo's and show where I think I will mount to the seat. It may involve another piece of profile, but may offer no additional benefit.

Also, how are those files coming along? Do you have anything at all for me to play around with? Even if they are not final, I want to try and become familiar with SSW as for the time being, SimVibe is feeling gutless compared to it on this setup. I had to check if my amp was at correct gain because I thought I turned it right down by accident while driving (barely, without pedals) using Simvibe. You did PM me a few ages ago, is that something I can use just to compare what the base files do compared to something you have played around with?

 

[Mascot]

(as well as a couple of extra HE seq shifters if anyone is interested, Aussie's especially as there is never any stock here from our distributors )

You bought a couple of extra HE sequentials..?

Pourquoi?

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks @Ceolmor I have briefly had that page up and will definitely dig deeper once I have sorted out the hardware side of the build. Can't wait to have a play with what's available.

@Mr Latte I knew I'd cop flack for this as soon as you saw it, lol I am playing with different ideas for the time being, but unfortunately since there was a mix up with some of my order, I am short on profile that I would have otherwise used to attempt mounting the mini on the actual seat frame. From what I have done with the harness and it's requirement to be on the moving part of the platform, it has taken priority in its mounting location.

I did try mounting to the profile running across the platform at the very beginning, but because it needs to hang off so far for clearance, and because it's mounted to 1.5mm rolled aluminium, I found the piston doing a lot of bouncing compared to the Aura's which are not as powerful, and as a result, the feeling was lost into the air rather than having a path to transmit the energy back to me.

So, I wanted to test what difference it would have made once I moved the mini right over a piece of profile, to stop the bouncing of the temporary mount (I have 2 x mini mounts coming from SimLab now which are 3mm thick). It's miles better and I can feel a lot more that what I could with it closer to the seat but hanging off more. This SHOULD be solved with a thicker mount, but while I do not have it at my disposal, I am killing time by trying as many things as possible while I wait.

I also have found that mounting with the slots as opposed to the holes (meaning it's hanging in mid air where the piston is bouncing) gives you WAY less feedback, clearly because the part that's bouncing is again losing the energy into mid air with only a slight portion going back into the profile. I mounted the mini this way but on the front of the seat mount and I could hardly feel anything even though it seemed closer to me.

I am today going to have another look at mounting the rear in a way that lower frequencies come through more. These are way duller than higher frequencies, I think that the energy is just not being transferred correctly with the way the piston operates at this level. Higher frequencies tend to resonate with the profile a lot better, and I can even feel the vibration from the RIM (using Fanaleds to access the standard rumble feature in Fanatec rims even though I am on an OSW now) all the way through to my chair. It's amazing how that frequency transmits so much better than the lower frequencies.

I will take a few photo's and show where I think I will mount to the seat. It may involve another piece of profile, but may offer no additional benefit.

Also, how are those files coming along? Do you have anything at all for me to play around with? Even if they are not final, I want to try and become familiar with SSW as for the time being, SimVibe is feeling gutless compared to it on this setup. I had to check if my amp was at correct gain because I thought I turned it right down by accident while driving (barely, without pedals) using Simvibe. You did PM me a few ages ago, is that something I can use just to compare what the base files do compared to something you have played around with?

Hey, your Aussie you can handle some flack...
You also should know what Irish humour is like and how I often joke around

Want to congratulate you as the rig looks great and your certainly putting a lot of money into these upgrades you have added. Also some other peoples folling with this 8020 and VR3 combo.

I've suggested this on the forums in other threads but what I think you (8020) guys are doing wrong regards tactile is going off in your own ideas regards mounting, positioning and installing. To me what would make more sense is communicating with each other findings and examples you have already tried. Highlighting what has or indeed hasn't worked and points like you just mentioned regards the alu transmitting mid/higher frequencies better.

We know different materials resonate at different frequencies, (we can even address this with EQ) steel is apparently better for low bass and often steel plates may help but I seriously look at some of the equipment and rigs you guys have in wonder. See the money that is spent yet regards improving the tactile installation people do not seem that bothered or willing to spend $100 or whatever on isolation materials/methods to enhance the quality of tactile they get from whatever tactile they own.

There are materials and things that can be combined to improve the tactile energy where needed and sustain it better via isolation. All it requires is a few guys trying some things and applying such methods, working together. I don't have experience with 8020 but I do understand the benefits of isolation and controlling the path of the tactile.


Skip this if not interested folks, its my usual rambling on tactile and SSW

SSW Effects Creation
The files are coming along great, I keep progressing and I will find it very strange if people dont find improvements over Simvibe or other tactile options. To build effects to operate on 1,2,4 or 6 channel configs takes extra work. So each individual effect I want to share for someone to test then has to be made for one of those channel configs via Audacity. However some have learned how to open a current file in Audacity and replace/export it with one of my new ones. This saves me a lot of time trying to do tests files for various configs.


Please to those reading if at all interested, we cant bring this precision or detail for effects via other tactile options as this is what the main benefit of using .wav brings. Some of the effects I created are quite complexed in how they are created by multiple layers being mixed into one effect master (needed to create the specific character) and to some extents this in itself is like a skill that can be learned or honed.

Keep in mind I am doing something that their is little help for. Andres files that come with SSW are very basic pure tones. So with continued efforts and hundreds of hours put into this I have learned some new tricks regards building an effect that can work well on a large unit (lowest strong bass) but also still be felt on more common models. This is one of the biggest challenges with the effects, having them work well on various tactile models. The main difference with SSW file creations compared to say how Simvibe creates tones (based on the telemetry data values) is that we can build the character of the effect to be how we want it. Those using Simvibe haven't really a clue what Hz are being used by any effect and in how it varies the frequencies between low-high values that the user inputs. Even these values are only center peaks and not the only Hz that are utilised. So my own research and monitoring highlighted this and other factors to me.

I even had my TST units produce a tyre squeal sound with wheel slip. Its just a simple matter of mixing such an audio file in with the bass frequencies for the effect master. Yet while it was kinda cool to hear the tactile make tyre sounds when the effect was activating, in reality, this is flawed. Simply because wheel slip on grass or gravel happens in the sim and it sounding like squeeling tyres is then daft.

I can assure you the files are to a high standard of detail but each effect is also being created to work well with the others. What I would say and try to encourage is that those who install better the tactile they have and can improve the stereo separation will get better response from the effects.

It's up to you guys to consider such with these effects and how people will be able to match files to suit their own hardware and personal preferences is far beyond what Simvibe can bring in detail or fine tuning. Two of the major problems with tactile is having the energy/gain for specific Hz match the tactile hardware. Also different tacitle hardware may operate better with specific frequencies than others.

12 months plus of research and file building has led me, I belive to of cracked this issue. The solution is creating a good working effect master for the role/character of the effect but then giving the user the ability to have this effect in multiple options. Here you the user determine what energy and what Hz the effect will use. This brings much better results to obtaining a matching effect for your own hardware and personal preference. With multiple "car folders" in SSW you can then swap folders using different combos to build your own personalised "car profiles".

Currently, thier is nothing close to offering in tactile this level of control or personalisation with effects.

The problem is for me this means creating hundreds of effect files, (wots keeping you Rod)!

Previous Example:

 

[anton_Chez]

@ Mascot I tried for ages to find one that was in Australia. One site is completely sold out of EVERYTHING. I even looked there for a DD option and they were sold out of their OSW's, sold out of the HE Pro's, Ultimates, shifters, everything. Another site wasn't even up and running so I got the guys contact through his Facebook page (I never use Facebook) and he reckons around a month and around $380 - $390 AUD depending on exchange rates at the time. So I thought, once I decided to get the pedals and handbrake, might as well get a few and save the shipping on just getting one, and sell them for a slight win.

No one wants them! They're on eBay for now. They'll sell eventually but, anyway...