Sim-Lab not all good as it looks

There is a reason why they stopt taking orders the last time they just had to much work by the high demand of stuff that got ordered almost every thing is on back order. i think they are just on max of there game it will take time to grow (and what if the demand is just a few months?).

i wanted to order from them but decided do it all my self because of the waiting time.
 

RCHeliguy

Premium
3,789
2,250
United States
I think sometimes expectation management is the biggest issue.

I had a very positive experience with Sim-Labs and thought they did a great job with my order over a year ago, but they were backlogged back then too. That doesn't speak to anyone's experience but mine and I know they have been back ordered for longer periods than I had to wait since then.

When I got my P1I reported to Darko that the 5mm bolts they supplied to attach the HE Sprint pedals required washers so they wouldn't bottom out. A year later they still haven't dealt with that issue. I'm not picking them apart, but just pointing out the no company is perfect even in my very satisfied experience with them.

That is a pretty small issue and at this point I have a HUGE range of bolt widths, lengths, head types, washers, T-nuts, lock nuts, lock washers, aluminum spacers, plastic washers just for my rig etc.. etc..

I consider any 8020 platform to be an erector set that you can easily make work and bend to your will and I have trouble dinging them for small issues when the overall chassis is such a great STARTING POINT. I think that is key. No 8020 system is done especially when you first get it. There are always improvements. All that matters is the extreme flexibility.

I'm not trying to take away from anyone being able to vent their spleen or expression of dissatisfaction. Sim-Lab has a very happy customer base for a reason. I don't consider myself a fanboy of any company in this market. A number of companies I've purchased products from are worth recommending. I still consider Sim-Lab a company I would strongly recommend.

But people look at parts differently. I never saw myself buying a finished product as I never built mine according to their design. I did use all their parts and ordered a number additional parts as well. My rig has been through countless iterations since then. Some changes were pretty large. So YMMV, but I think how you view an 8020 product will have a pretty major impact on see things.
 
1,018
863
Germany
Going with the flow of one of the later posts I can say that I am a happy black P1-X customer. Even before Covid-19 the delivery lead time doubled after I placed my order. I received some parts of the delivery from a port in Spain I believe. I suppose it was shipped there from overseas. There was obviously some supply chain problem even without a worldwide pandemic.....
The seat actually came much faster.

The aluminium "80/40" extrusion is and was an industrial product. It takes some care to get/purchase completely non-scratched items I would think. Some of my profiles show some minor blemishes, but as I said: I knew it would be an industrial product. Packaging was perfect. So no additional blemishes on the delivery I have to presume.
All custom made aluminium parts (brackets) were without any damage at all.
I knew from the start that I would not receive a manual. This is well documented over the net.
With some videos on the net it was easily manageable.

My brother has a Rseat S1 and IIRC that one was not easier to build you just have less parts. Plus the fabrication quality is not better with them. Sure, powder coating was perfect. But one hole / thread at the wrong place and you have to manage on your own. He experienced that with his keyboard tray, which he purchased later on. He had to drill and tap a new hole to make it work. They sent him a new keyboard tray for sure, but that didn't help as the hole was drilled wrong on the main rig...

So overall I would concur with @maelstrom , but I would never think that such a low volume, oder-made product is perfect from the get-go and that I would not have to tinker with it to make it work.

Just look at all the threads with electronic hardware in this very sub-forum. Supposed to work out of the nox, but doesn't always.
 

Andrew_WOT

Premium
5,275
3,049
@maelstrom Which part does not work out of the box, for me everything bolted right on in one evening, SC2 Pro, HE pedals, HE handbrake, Fanatec SQ shifter, 42" monitor, and I was racing next day.
Some exotic configurations might need some tinkering, but those are not advertised on sim-lab site either.
Some people hack their rigs not because they had to, but mostly just because they can.
And I do remember my RSeat RS1, flexibility was nowhere near to what can be accomplished with 80/20 based rig.
Plus black P1X build final result is a of a much better quality and better looking than RS1 (profiles in my shipment were all blemish free)
 
Last edited:

RCHeliguy

Premium
3,789
2,250
United States
Exactly! My chassis bolted right together without any issues. I started out nearly stock except for mounting an NLRv3, and moving the side rail to attach shifters. Then over time I started to modify it more.
 
I think it's clear that the 'I had no issues so it must be you' argument is pretty invalid considering everyone has their own experience. Clearly not every order came with issues. The whole 'I knew it wouldn't come without a manual' statement is pretty damning though. We are hardcore sim racers and hardware enthusiasts. That's not every person that purchases the product. I found it embarrassing to be required to look at the advert pics to surmise how the whole thing went together. Couple that with pieces that were incorrect in the package, it makes for a frustrating experience for people not like us.
 
144
63
I think it's clear that the 'I had no issues so it must be you' argument is pretty invalid considering everyone has their own experience. Clearly not every order came with issues. The whole 'I knew it wouldn't come without a manual' statement is pretty damning though. We are hardcore sim racers and hardware enthusiasts. That's not every person that purchases the product. I found it embarrassing to be required to look at the advert pics to surmise how the whole thing went together. Couple that with pieces that were incorrect in the package, it makes for a frustrating experience for people not like us.

The part about having to look at the advert pics I agree with 100%. I build custom cars for a living and I was like wtf. Nothing is bagged so you know where it goes? And not a single picture or exploded view of it. So I cant imagine what it would be like for someone with limited mechanical ability.
 
141
94
You mean this? It has step-by-step instructions and a parts list. Available via the P1-X's product page for download.
 

Attachments

  • P1-X-manual-0-9.pdf
    1.5 MB · Views: 50

RCHeliguy

Premium
3,789
2,250
United States
I get the fact that not everyone is an engineer who can glance at an exploded diagram and quickly throw something together. I guess I'm one of the guys who analyzed and looked at this chassis until I already knew how I was going to assemble it and where I was going to attach everything. I had ordered lots of extra parts from Sim-Lab and had a bunch more waiting for it when it got here. I wasn't trying to be condescending and apologize if I came off that way.

I doubt it matters, but below is the file I downloaded from Sim-Lab 18 months ago with exploding diagram. It is pretty typical to download documentation like this from a website these days. I understand that many would like to have a page by page illustrated assembly guide. So how valuable this is may vary.

For the record, I have heard of a number of people who got the wrong parts delivered, or even in the case of the Fanatec DD mount received parts initially fabricated with the wrong dimensions and needing replacement. So I am sure that there are people who have had issues. Fortunately Sim-Lab has been pretty good about resolving issues after the sale.
 

Attachments

  • Sim-Lab-schematic-P1-cockpit-V3.pdf
    467.3 KB · Views: 45

metalnwood

Premium
507
414
No company will get it right all the time and if a company really refuses to back up a product that is defective and doesnt help then I don't see a problem calling them out about it publicly if needed.


What gets me about the OP is that they forgot to ship the feet but the substance of all his complaints is a non issue. Some people seem to have read a wall of text and taken it as a huge litany of failures that I am failing to see.

Possibly the biggest fault from simlabs here is after the sale trying to help beyond what they needed to do and not being able to follow through - no doubt because they may have prioritised other customers over additional help to the OP for things that were not defective. I think most with a p1x can see that he has done something wrong himself but is making an issue out of it. You know I thought when he posted all the emails there would be the fault clear to see but the only thing clear is that he had not posted all the emails missing details about some of his faults. Sorry but thats a bit like painting your own narrative.
 
36
11
I bought a GT1 evo about a year ago and had no issues with the packing or the assembly. If you're not modifying it in any way then it should work out of the box, but even if you are then plenty of people have posted their experience with asking for modifications to the off the shelf kits and they oblige custom orders.

Again, plenty of people post about missing bits or having too many of some things which are then fixed with another shipment. IMO if you're modifying it then be prepared to do a hardware store run for nuts and bolts, and if you're modifying it so much that the custom billet pieces for wheel stands and pedal plates don't work 'off the shelf' then you might as well just DIY it with regular profile instead of paying a premium for simlabs designs.

As for the assembly, you'll have to do a quick search on how to assemble aluminium profile but after that it's pretty straight forward. Even with the schematics you aren't given dimensions because you are assembling it to your own needs.
 

Andrew_WOT

Premium
5,275
3,049
I think it's clear that the 'I had no issues so it must be you' argument is pretty invalid considering everyone has their own experience. Clearly not every order came with issues. The whole 'I knew it wouldn't come without a manual' statement is pretty damning though. We are hardcore sim racers and hardware enthusiasts. That's not every person that purchases the product. I found it embarrassing to be required to look at the advert pics to surmise how the whole thing went together. Couple that with pieces that were incorrect in the package, it makes for a frustrating experience for people not like us.
That's definitely a minus, Barry at SRG did a pretty good job making assembly video that is actually on main P1-X page so you wouldn't have to search for it. And that was super useful when putting it together, and of course stock pictures of different configurations at different angles.

They do have some manuals for older P1 model and GT1, but not for P1X yet, but to be honest, after Barry's video I wouldn't bother checking it even if it was there.
But yeah, regardless, product must have manual, agree.


EDIT: Oops, seems like that was addressed too :thumbsup:
 
564
303
This is the update 10 days later, so you can blame me more for my bad attitude.


From: <info@sim-lab.eu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 9:46 AM
To:
Subject:
Re: Replacement pedal set with countersunk holes + new design NLR V3 motion brackets.

I m adding these as well.


Best regards,

image


Managing Director

KVK 6381 3106
VAT NL 85 5412 276 B01
IBAN NL 53 INGB 0006 9227 32
SNELLIUSWEG 11, 4691SP THOLEN
WEB sim-lab.eu
On Tue, 9 Jun at 3:51 PM ,
Do you have also the countersunk plates for the pedal set as discussed?

From: <info@sim-lab.eu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 8:42:17 AM
To:
Subject:
Re: Replacement pedal set with countersunk holes + new design NLR V3 motion brackets.

Double checked, we got the new ones in. I m making a shipment for them.



Best regards,

image


Managing Director

KVK 6381 3106
VAT NL 85 5412 276 B01
IBAN NL 53 INGB 0006 9227 32
SNELLIUSWEG 11, 4691SP THOLEN
WEB sim-lab.eu
On Tue, 9 Jun at 3:37 PM , <info@sim-lab.eu> wrote:
I still cannot make a shipment for the brackets, we have some small old stock and the new versions haven't arrived yet. please shoot me a last message In 2-3 weeks then I have them.



Best regards,

image


Managing Director

KVK 6381 3106
VAT NL 85 5412 276 B01
IBAN NL 53 INGB 0006 9227 32
SNELLIUSWEG 11, 4691SP THOLEN
WEB sim-lab.eu
On Tue, 9 Jun at 1:51 PM ,
Hi xxx,

Nice to read from you.

I used M8 20mm as per instructions. I already ordered a new set via Amazon.

And yes, as for now I am still waiting for the parts in the subject to be shipped.

Best regards,



1592531511088.png
 

RCHeliguy

Premium
3,789
2,250
United States
I once waited over 2 years to get a specialty speed helicopter from Germany.
These are niche hobbies and on top of that COVID-19 keeping everyone home has created a HUGE surge in sales and pushed most sim parts vendors very hard and many are not keeping up and falling behind on service, support, and initial deliveries.

I'm not saying that reduces your frustration in any way. Everyone likes to get their stuff fast and right, but right now we are living in trying times. The only other option would be to just turn away sales for long periods of time which is a very hard thing for any company in business to make money.

So not blaming you for being frustrated, just being a bit more understanding about what they are dealing with right now.

Sorry, I know it sucks, but at some point you'll have everything together and be happy. Just try not to let things like this this wear you out in the mean time.
 
564
303
You are not getting the point. There is no silly excuse here, it's (and was even before) in stock ready for shipping. I can't care less of simlab, but it shows once again that it's not all good as it looks.
 
Since you are only interested in venting I will offer you simple solutions to your problems which you could easily do before they get stock in 2/3 weeks time or you can continue this thread and complain more, your choice.

Why not just drill the countersunk holes yourself? It’s aluminium so literally you can go through it like a knife through butter, 2min job (and before you say you don’t have a drill it’s soft enough to do with a cheap manual countersink!)

Also before Sim-Lab made those brackets (which they took the design idea from Mascot on here) owners were just buying aluminium right angle which is cheap as chips and actually offers better usability than their ones as you can lower the NLRV3 into the rig more by getting longer brackets (again if you say you don’t have a drill you could get a cheap hand drill and make the holes in the brackets easily). Search the NLR V3 thread and you will find Mascot’s blueprint if you want exact dimensions.

So yeh two easy solutions.
 

Andrew_WOT

Premium
5,275
3,049
I still don't understand "lack of countersunk holes" complaint.
Are we talking about these pedal mount holes, which are countersunk, or something else?

1592548991690.png
 
I am one of the few that's happy. Although I had some issues with the integrated mount and the wheelmount of the GT1-Evo; they didn't send washers. Little I knew and it just ruined the metal. It made the base creaking loud af. So I told them they should include washers for other people, so they do not face the same problem. I received a new wheelmount, bought washers myself and it all looks fine and I hear nothing. Only my integrated wheelmount does not look fancy, but luckily it's not in sight.

Another issue is that I would advice people not to buy seats with sliders. It's really annoying to bolt them onto the rig and some seats are too wide for the sliders anyway, so reaching the allenkey-bolts is a pain or can't even insert the key into the nuts because the chair is in the way. I would always advice seats with sidebolts and attach the side-thingys onto the sliders. Its easier. You also do not sit too low. At the moment my pedaldeck, with HE's, is almost on the ground because I sit too low.

I am happy with the build. No flex, no sounds. It's amazing if coming from a Omega Supreme Pro. (No hate towards GT Omega. Their rigs are most build towards casuals)

Last but not least, I ordered the 5mm thick plate. It's just one piece free of charge + shipping costs and I am now waiting 15 days. My other orders took like 10 days. I am a bit worried, but also patient.

ps. The rig is mostly set and go. If I want to re-adjust the height of my wheel. I first have to remove my monitor and my wheel, then unbolt the horizontal bar and bolt it on my preferred height. Attach the wheel again and hope it fits. Otherwise I've to remove the wheel again, unbolt the horizontal bar again, etc. Once you've figured out what works for you. Its set and forget.

I also would advice to buy 2 sets of locked caster wheels, so it's easier to clean and maintain the rig. It's also easier to get acces to the pedals for same thing.
 
Last edited:
564
303
I would have done the job myself two months ago if they didn't promise to ship the parts.

You still don't get the point and pontificate.

It's the attitude of the company what you have to look at.

I come back here in the good spirit to announce they finally decided to ship, but guess what, they aren't.

And this is the end of my story.
 
Top