Sim Discussion Monday - Automobilista

[Paul Jeffrey]

The weekend is behind us and it's Monday once again. To help alleviate some of that disappointment, let's have another Sim Discussion Monday!

The subject of choice this week is the mighty Automobilista from Reiza Studios. Starting out life with a very Brazilian theme before undergoing it's current expansion to cover all things motorsport, Automobilista has come on a long way since the early days under GSCE branding.

Now featuring plenty of the bells and whistles expected of a modern racing simulation, plus an impressive collection of cars and racing series from a diverse cross section of the motorsport world, AMS is something of a little known gem in the sim racing landscape.

I will be running one of these each Monday, for all the major sims, as a place to get some community feedback on the game itself and everything associated with the title.

Let's use this as a place for some user reviews and a central spot for all things AMS. Found a good mod you want to let people know about, tell us! Have a particular favourite car or track? Well shout up! Know some tricks to get the game running in its sweet spot? Fire away! Want to muse about future content coming to the sim, or want to beg the developers to go out and secure a particular licence agreement? Well now you can... !


Mondays be like...

 

[Tony]

I think the last version I've tried was 1.2. and now I see in change log they added low ffb boost. My only issue was with too light and simplistic ffb.

Thanks for the link, I'll have to check out the latest version!

I see a lot of people mentioning the lack of laser scanned tracks. Personally I think that even without laser scanning Reiza Studios recreated Red Bull Ring and Imola exceptionally well.

and adelaide is amazing

 

[MarcG]

The SuperV8 is the best sim car I've driven to date (others recently have come close), I miss it greatly but simply cannot drive on a flat screen any more. Unlike other VR users though I accepted Reizas position (lack of man-power/time) to implement VR and moved on to other Sims without fuss or toy throwing.
Am I angry at Reiza for no VR support? Hell no, they created a fantastic Sim that I've been watching grow since I last properly played it late last year/early this year, they're moving things forward and essentially learning what needs to be done for their next main title (which undoubtedly will include VR!).
The future is very bright under Reiza and I'm enjoying the ride

 

[JO Simracing]

AMS is a great sim. Absolutely essential in my library. The Formula Vees are some of the most fun-delivering cars in all the available sims and Reiza has brought them to us. Keep the fantastic work and looking forward to the next sim.

 

[sjb266]

I miss it greatly but simply cannot drive on a flat screen any more.

Get yourself a curved screen!

 

[ears]

If what he said weren't true, you wouldn't have reacted this way.

++

I thought @Snorb 's post was well rounded and made a lot of good points.

And just as every sim has its dedicated fanbase, every one will tend to have its dedicated army of antagonists.

As such, 90% of internet forum posts on the subject should be ignored.

 

[Tony]

Automobilista seems to have built up a fan club where it is beyond criticism. Great, but awful. Reiza's attention to physics is so admirable, but their graphics are awful.

There is criticism which is fine and then there are statements like these which are a complete load of rubbish. There is a significant difference.
The graphics are absolutely fine if you know how to set them up.

 

[Boby Kim]

There is criticism which is fine and then there are statements like these which are a complete load of rubbish. There is a significant difference.
The graphics are absolutely fine if you know how to set them up.

There are peeps that want full DX 12 with all bells and wisstles. Everything beneath that level is rubbish (got a mate with the same opinion). They exist...**** happens

 

[Boby Kim]

Automobilista seems to have built up a fan club where it is beyond criticism. Great, but awful. Reiza's attention to physics is so admirable, but their graphics are awful. A lot of their added content is guff, ramp-jumping trucks or non-descript Brazilian Stock Car racing.

Reiza needs focus. Ditch the awful graphics and enhance the wonderful physics.

Automobilista: 5/10

I guess u are going to enjoy Pcars 2 to the limit. Now...leave the race master enjoying our exclusive racing club and please dont make a stir on ur way out

 

[Alex Sawczuk]

It's fair to say the graphics are not upto the same standards of the latest games, we do not have all the latest bells and whistles, and we would not argue with that at all, but we do spend a lot of time in areas which do not go noticed quite as much. A fancy HDR filter gets noticed more than the custom profiles for armco (3d), fences and tyre barriers unique to each track - rather than just generic styles, (since the recent DLC tracks started), or the road shaders which dynamically change how dusty the road is as you build up grip, as well as adding marbles, skid marks and racing line working in (same on the rumble strips too), or the terrain shader that allows us to put to the finite detail where different types of grass are, or import them from satellite imagery in literally minutes. The provided SweetFX profiles have tone mapping built in to give a more natural colour palette - and they range from super desaturated to oversaturated, cause at the end of the day there are a lot of horrible quality monitors and incorrectly configure monitors out there. That's with out highlighting the fact that we often pass over ALL content multiple times to bring the latest developments as progress to the older content as much as possible.

We have been working with the resources and expertise that we have and providing the best game that we can with the budget available. That means for now we still have at the base architecture a very old engine and have focused coding efforts in areas we can excel against others whilst doing the best possible right now in others, improving physics, AI, and general usability of the game, to keep the actual output competitive. Let's be clear if we had taken the time to do other things like graphics updates or VR updates, that would mean the game would not be the game that you are praising today, in that, other things would have had to be cut. We took the decision to stick to what we are good at and had a higher chance of success, and lower chance of being 6 months of development wasted.
.
But anyone who says the graphics are terrible is just ignoring, for one reason or another the provided information in the user guide, which explain how to setup the AA options. The old engine means that a little bit of extra configuration is required to get the AA working correctly, since Nvidia and co have long since removed the dx9 optimal settings directly accessible from the drivers (CSAA etc). But with the add of some Sparse Grid Super Sampling the jaggies disappear very quickly. This information has been in the user guide since the initial release.

Below are the screenshots shared a week ago as we pass through the track content, improving bits and bobs. We have now updated 33 of the 43 locations have been updated (in the beta - soon to be in release). All screenshots are unedited, with A2 Natural SFX, and NVInspector set up as explained in the User Guide.

 

[naondave]

Game looks fine. I'd say it's on par with iracing.

 

[Stephen O'Sullivan]

Not only has Reiza ingeniously updated old code to make a fine sim with diverse and interesting content, it has laid the groundwork for future products.

One point about the graphics: Automobilista's trees are excellent.

 

[Terry Rock]

I fly one of the most advanced modern flight simulators everyday as part of my job duties.
I once asked the lead modeler why not all of the airports were completely modeled...his answer... "We put most of our resources into what people will be using most".
The statement above says it all.

 

[RasmusP]

It's fair to say the graphics are not upto the same standards of the latest games, we do not have all the latest bells and whistles, and we would not argue with that at all, but we do spend a lot of time in areas which do not go noticed quite as much. A fancy HDR filter gets noticed more than the custom profiles for armco (3d), fences and tyre barriers unique to each track - rather than just generic styles, (since the recent DLC tracks started), or the road shaders which dynamically change how dusty the road is as you build up grip, as well as adding marbles, skid marks and racing line working in (same on the rumble strips too), or the terrain shader that allows us to put to the finite detail where different types of grass are, or import them from satellite imagery in literally minutes. The provided SweetFX profiles have tone mapping built in to give a more natural colour palette - and they range from super desaturated to oversaturated, cause at the end of the day there are a lot of horrible quality monitors and incorrectly configure monitors out there. That's with out highlighting the fact that we often pass over ALL content multiple times to bring the latest developments as progress to the older content as much as possible.

We have been working with the resources and expertise that we have and providing the best game that we can with the budget available. That means for now we still have at the base architecture a very old engine and have focused coding efforts in areas we can excel against others whilst doing the best possible right now in others, improving physics, AI, and general usability of the game, to keep the actual output competitive. Let's be clear if we had taken the time to do other things like graphics updates or VR updates, that would mean the game would not be the game that you are praising today, in that, other things would have had to be cut. We took the decision to stick to what we are good at and had a higher chance of success, and lower chance of being 6 months of development wasted.
.
But anyone who says the graphics are terrible is just ignoring, for one reason or another the provided information in the user guide, which explain how to setup the AA options. The old engine means that a little bit of extra configuration is required to get the AA working correctly, since Nvidia and co have long since removed the dx9 optimal settings directly accessible from the drivers (CSAA etc). But with the add of some Sparse Grid Super Sampling the jaggies disappear very quickly. This information has been in the user guide since the initial release.

Below are the screenshots shared a week ago as we pass through the track content, improving bits and bobs. We have now updated 33 of the 43 locations have been updated (in the beta - soon to be in release). All screenshots are unedited, with A2 Natural SFX, and NVInspector set up as explained in the User Guide.

I get why people say AMS has too old graphics but it lets me shake my head a bit.
In every modern game I see fewer AA options and more fancy stuff. Shiny lights, sharp shadows, blahblah but the whole image is flickering like hell. There is a minority that is bothered by that flickering and I am one of them. I don't play project cars because it just hurt my eyes to look at the white lines that are crawling through the pixels even with the highest AA enabled.

AMS is the only game that runs perfectly smooth with 8x SGSSAA and is completely flicker-free! It's just a pleasure for the eyes and in my opinion that's important in a racing sim!

Also the little details are important. Other sims have some nice HDR and what not but after some time they just feel kind of dead. When you slide into the gravel pits at AMS and you hear the crowd cheering and see the scenery around the track it feels like you are THERE!

And that's why AMS has the best immersion for me and it doesn't matter that the engine is quite old

 

[RasmusP]

Oh, also it's nice to have a nice sim where my PC doesn't heat up the whole room

 

[Leynad777]

Let's be clear if we had taken the time to do other things like graphics updates or VR updates, that would mean the game would not be the game that you are praising today, in that, other things would have had to be cut.

All nice, but i very agree with what Empty Box said this week: 'VR is a game-changer' and a good bang for the buck today. AMS plus Dirt 4 are the only titles i call sims that doesn´t support it (and quite some people don´t count Dirt 4 as a sim). So come on guys, AMS needs VR-support

 

[BenCollins]

I may have been too harsh in my post - the graphics are not "awful", that was an exaggeration, which I apologise for.

I do still think it is the best sim experience in terms of physics. With the graphics standards of the newer sims, it would be unbeatable.

 

[David Wright]

With the graphics standards of the newer sims, it would be unbeatable.

I'm not convinced. As I run GT Legends and GTR2 on a regular basis, I don't have an issue with AMS graphics and I'm a fan of Alex's tracks. But while I admire Reiza's philosophy of simulating niche cars and race series - none of them actually appeal to me. And though they clearly do appeal to many AMS fans, I suspect I'm not alone. In my opinion, AMS even with the graphics standards of the newer sims, would not compete with the big boys in terms of sales.

 

[Emery]

Back when AMS was proposed, I stated (here on RD?) that Reiza would have to improve their graphics of the existing GSCE content to be marketable. Reiza just happened to do that; revisiting material not once, but two or three times. That is an impressive feat considering how much they have in their library, how much new material has been added, and the fact it works in dynamic lighting. I suspect the biggest future challenge will be increasing cockpit detail to the level VR users have become accustomed to.

rFactor 2 is the only other sim to have received as many graphic overhauls. Unfortunately for rF2 fans (yes, that includes me), despite a smaller content library, the overhauls have never been completely finished before the next one began. At least the material is all up to a minimum level (I hesitate to call it a standard), where it is supposed to be compatible with DX11, but I believe only some of it uses the new shaders. Coupled with consistent minor graphic bugs/imperfections (e.g. forgotten brake glow on new McLaren?!?) that aren't fixed in a timely fashion, you can see how tough the job of maintaining a content library is.

AC's strength lies in the number of cars released that seemingly never have graphic bugs/imperfections and look good in the lighting engine. Sadly, I cannot say similar things about their tracks, where the look/feel is all over the place and anything beyond the track surface is often a fiction (skybox at Brands Hatch, missing brake markers at historic Silverstone). As they continue to pump out cars and ignore the tracks, it is clear they do not have the desire to undergo any graphic overhauls where it is sorely needed.

I don't recall any major graphic overhauls in RaceRoom nor are they likely to need them soon. Old tracks get some updates to match detail levels and new content is released with better details, but to my knowledge there hasn't been a revamping of shaders or lighting engine.

 

[Chobonator]

++

I thought @Snorb 's post was well rounded and made a lot of good points.

And just as every sim has its dedicated fanbase, every one will tend to have its dedicated army of antagonists.

As such, 90% of internet forum posts on the subject should be ignored.

Of course, I agree with you there! The fanbase who praises and those who call it terrible are both wrong, as the truth is in the middle.

 

[Emery]

In my opinion, AMS even with the graphics standards of the newer sims, would not compete with the big boys in terms of sales.

Agreement here. At least, for me, there is some niche content that does appeal. The problem is that I have to remember that it does appeal to me, partly because it can be generic rather than DLC and partly because the 3 series I like are lost in all the niche content that doesn't appeal to me.

It is possible that at the rate new tracks are released and as they cover more of the globe, then in about 2 or 3 years, whether it's still AMS or has become "Reiza 17", that the niche car series will no longer matter to me. In other words, the 3 series I'm currently interested in will overlap with the tracks I'm most interested in.

In the meantime, as I mentioned in my first post in this thread (http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/sim-discussion-monday-automobilista.139257/page-2#post-2545973), I will be making an effort to race in AMS more often.