Season 9 Track Discussion

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Just a quick poll: How many used the installer and how do rate it? Useful or annoying?

 

[Valerio Vinassa]

I use installer is not annoying but is not better direct to Steam folder?
I install in CreamTeam folder and then copy and paste in steam usually routine
thanks anyway for track Kennett

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

I use installer is not annoying but is not better direct to Steam folder?
I install in CreamTeam folder and then copy and paste in steam usually routine
thanks anyway for track Kennett

You have to point it yourself in the Steam\steamapps\[steam user]\Race07. I haven't yet learned how to extract that steam username during installation. I have only seen it in one of the weissbierbude updater and VLM track where the steam username is being inserted automatically and then it's easy to make the installer point to right folder (i know where to get that info, it's in the depths of my docs\simbin..). Setups are easier to install, it's just My Documents\SimBin\Race07.... that path is the same in all our PCs.

 

[Reik Major]

Honestly, if it's about the "easier" installtions like dropping the track folder from a zip into ...gamedata/locations I prefer to do it manually. I'm allways a little bit worrying if I don't know where an installer dropps some files. I'm afraid of crashes after installing an addon and then not knowing which files to delete to roll it back. But if it's clear the installer also has an uninstaller, my trust raises.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Yup, just run the installer again, it has three options: Modify, Repair and Remove. Or use windows uninstaller.

I do understand your concerns when it comes to software installers, i share that concern also. It's also very rare to see anything suspectible around trusted mod releases. The basic zip is there for a reason, for ex some server configurations are very strict when it comes to installing anything remotely.. I just wanted the setups to be integral part of the release, i think some people wont even recognize they got the setups...

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Watkins Glen was a disappointment, the artificial horizon on the main straight causes seasickness and very much a brainfart.. it's way too close for the driver and behaves very oddly, it's like a zoom-effect (camera moves backwards while zooming in, shift in perspective).. I'm mad at myself of not inspecting this track, i got the impression that it is bonafide tested track. Too late to change anything, i might try to make a texture hack for it (remove the trees from the horizon texture replacing it with single sky color...), i tried it yesterday several times and the mainstraight perspective error makes my stomach uneasy.... I actually had some seasickness with it, my brain kind a flips... Anyone else have the same symptoms?​

 

[David Turnbull]

nope, nobodys ever made comment about that and weve used it back in f3000 and in f1 in league races, i know the bit you mean but i dont get any problems by it.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Just tried again and i have to make a texture "hack" for it. I get dizzy.. It's because the skydome, where the horizon is, is too small and it always moves with you (like it should) but in this case, it's only few hundred meters in front of you (actually, when you are in the start of main straight, the skydome edge is at 3/4 straight length). So you can see it moving when you have a moving reference point (the crest). So the tarmac moves closer and the sky moves back makes my brain hurt.. The skydome is suppose to be at least 1km in front of you but to change it's size, i need to tinker with TRK file and it's protected (causes online mismatches..)

Damndamndamndamn.. Dropped the ball here. I can however replace the sky and the horizon textures..

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Here is the fix, works online: removed

Install to GameData\Locations\WatkinsGlen\Textures, confirm overwrite

The fix halves the horizon, almost entirely fixing the problem. It certainly is way better with the fix and won't cause brainfarts at T1. I recommend this as a safety measure, the shifting perspective makes it hard to judge distances and personally, i would be very afraid of driving there for 70 minutes, specially the first few laps consern me...

It just occurred to me that maybe my experience is what mostly confuses me, i see it as a separate object, not as sky/horizon having rotated, zoomed etc around different tracks countless hours.. The fix returns some of the immersion. Our brains are anyway programmed to see as sky=blue=up=far a way, green line in the horizon we associate immediately with treelines, you can make up a really crude drawing with those colors in right order and we know immediately what is what. I think it has something to do with it, since we are talking about 2D projection of 3D world, ie no depth perception...

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

I dont think its a problem really, only noticed a part round back of circuit that background kinda moves funny but other than that ive never noticed before. I think we had a wet race to with high finishers old season.
Its also a really good track to drive, i was on last night and forgot how awesome it was

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Yeah, the track itself is amazing, keep losing my backend, have very little experience driving around heavily cambered circuits ( i thought i was radical when doing cambers in Cicada. lol.. how wrong i was..), the exits lightens the load on the rear but it's interesting as hell! I think it's because of that different angle that i have on tracks, it just detaches me everytime so that the focus switches to that phenomenon (yahuu, first time i spelled that right the first time..), with lower horizon it appears after the crest so it's not distracting (so much, with time i think the rest of it will fade away.). There are similar phenomenons in music that detaches the player from the flow, ti becomes more conscious effort and the more techical section, the more errors you then get.. There are a lot of similarities between learning to play an instrument and racing but let's not get into that right now...

It's good if others don't suffer from my "conditions" but if anyone finds the main straight a bit odd, try the texture fix. If PrestoGP wasn't something i consider "serious racing" as in, all aspects of the race are thought of, in RD club races i would be probably just laughing, enjoying the "trip" each time that shift happens (it's quite psychedelic, kind a like driving in a movie, since they use that effect quite a lot in cinema...). But here it may destroy somebodys race. I'm just happy that it's not a problem anymore... And i continue being quite anal about tracks, hope it's contributing positively (i do have doubts about everyone approving these fixes, i'm happy to get thoughts on that.. and then defending heavily, like i do, get use to it since i'm here to stay..)

 

[David Turnbull]

seeing as your inviting comments about this i'll throw mine in, merely a debate dont take this as trying to start an arguement.

i think making fixes for tracks shouldnt be allowed, i remained quiet at monaco when you made the flag fix, in my opinion your changing files to suit your own needs, in other online game that would be cheating or hacking whatever you want to call it, i was quite annoyed that you made a visual reference on monaco to give yourself an advantage at the entry to swimming pool, you may or may not be gaining an advantage here at watkins with your fix but again your changing files to suit your needs, why i say your own needs is because youve not been asked to make a fix for the leagues benefit, and no one has ever complained that watkins needed fixed and weve used it a number of times and has been one of prestogp most safe events.

i race with the default game and the mmg mod, every track in my locations folder is an unmodified version of what that particular modder released, not only is this how the modder released the track and as such is intended to be, but its also what everyone else will use so no one gains an advantage we all use the same version with the same flaws if you like.

like i said this isnt to start an arguement, you can continue making fixes if you like and use them but im afraid i wont be id rather race on a track the way it was intended wether the author/designer has included a flaw or not, i'll work round it like everyone else does.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

You do hit a point there, tracks should be the same for everyone. I agree on that 100%. At least i offer the solution for all. Hard to judge what is the right way here, on the other hand it's unfair if one has a different version of the track, on the other hand i've been pretty consistent on my quest of getting rid of stupid stupid mistakes left in the track, instead of waiting for author to fix them i'll do it myself.

One sentence that kind a stuck "not only is this how the modder released the track and as such is intended to be" and this is total BS.. Most of the mistakes are done in conversion stage, as most of the tracks we use are conversions from another title (rF or GTR2) and converters are not all very good and almost all of them are very lazy (they don't even load them ingame to test if everything works, just a batch conversion and release) I've fixed only clear mistakes that haven't been the intention of the modder. Monaco was something that remains questionable, won't be doing such again. I really hoped that all would've used the fixes so that we all would have the same track, not that i'm the only one using them.

This is not easy subject and needs ruling (even thou i'm pretty sure it's not to my liking..). If i can't use the horizon fix in Watkins, i'm afraid i will be DNS (or DNF..), it is really distracting by myself (it could be that it's actually easier with cars around, don't know). I'm not trying to push my goal thru blackmailing about participating, no, i'm just conserned. Wouldn't touch it if it wasn't a problem and i feel odd that it's been fine for everyone so far.. Really really odd.

Mostly i feel ashamed in behalf my modding brothers, the amount of errors in addon track are so high. Every other track has a major flaw and 99% seems to be it's 1 minute fix. MAKES ME EFFIN CRAZY!

EDIT: Oh, track geometry has never been changed by me so in that sense our cars have identical track in all cases.

 

[Reik Major]

Well, Kennett I think you have one serious problem - you know toooooooooo much!

The normal driver (like me) has no modding knowledge and sometimes even doesn't notice the flaws which drive you crazy. And when such a flaw is known there have always been two options - life with it or substitute the track(version).

Now that we have such a smart modder onboard, it's a great help to detect anoying flaws when it comes to check new tracks. But when a track has been proved by having good events there, it should remain as it is.

(That doesn't mean that already used tracks can't be discussed prior a season...)

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

You're right, i dropped the ball when i didn't inspect this track. Should've could've, too late now. I'll remove the fix and try to survive..

The reason why i'm so annoyed about small mistakes is the countless hours spent testing and triplechecking everything, every god damned object is looked at, what purpose does it server, does it work ingame.. Is the cut corridors 10cm right or left. And then you see track that has 5000 downloads and the guy receiving the credits is a total cretin, has never looked at the project, doesn't respond to feedback or pleas to fix it. It's a dump&leave operation, never look back where good modder has work ethic, tenacy and enough care about their "art" to make sure it as flawless as you can make it. Then i see a track that has the inner signs of lazyass "modder" (converters aren't modders... they convert other modders material...) Don't get me worng, there are awesome converters around, like motorfx, meck and NeelJ (huge backlog and 100% working track, no bugs, excessive testing.) and then there are those (ronnie82) that blatantly steal... They are the necessary evil, mostly useless bunch but has few golden fellows. And if all converters really had asked permissions, our track selection would be smaller

Newsflash: they haven't.. for ex all GPL tracks are illegal... that means all those 70Monza, 70Montjuich etc... If i'm not mistaken, so is Montreal79, Hocke99 etc.. They are all from none gMotor2 titles, they all have track geometry copied from GPL and updated to Race07 standards) Spa08 and Hungaroring08 are rF conversions both, Watkins Glen is from GPL.

 

[David Turnbull]

i still stand by my last post, my position on that wont change but id really like to know what is causing you problems with watkins, ive watched seans vid in the other thread upwards of 10 times, ive drove countless laps on watkins and dont see the flaw your talking about, when i come onto the back straight i notice the horizon meeting the track and it looks quite odd but i put this down to an elevation change in the track, this comment is not aimed at you as an insult or anything just an observation of where you may be going wrong...... myself and sean discussed our view the other night, both of us only look at around 10m further ahead which works out to around 2-3 inches above the nose of the car, this is with low fov around 45-55 we have look to apex turned off so the only time we move our head is to look at a corner when turning in, so straight ahead and corners is all we look at, obviously when in a pack your view changes and youll look around more but on the whole you should be fixed on the track or corner, i think maybe subcontiously due to you being a track builder and modder that your looking around for flaws in backgrounds and textures and whatever else, thats not your fault and im not saying it is but its maybe an occupational hazard your suffering, us guys who dont build tracks or mod games just go out and drive them, we may look at the scenery once or twice and say wow thats nice, or in valencia streets case wow thats incredibly boring, but the main focus should be on the track, i hope you understand what i mean by this and dont take it as a critisism.