SEASON 9 RACE 6 A1 Ring INCIDENT REPORT

[Peter Marshall]

The way I see it both fail to "optimise their safety".

+1.
As Jenson once said to Seb, "so that's how we are racing". J

 

[Bob Luneski]

...In my opinion this was an avoidable incident created by Bob...

...I think most starting from the rear of the grid would opt for a "soft start", where they cruise at the back....

I promised myself I wouldn't respond and just let it pass, but since I'm an idiot that suffers from chronic "hoof in mouth" disease I respectfully disagree with both points. On the first, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I choose not to enter a circular discussion on the attribution of sync and lag induced issues.

On the second, I think it would be better to say that everyone must show appropriate caution the entire race with particular emphasis at the start of a race. To imply that some need to be more careful than others and to back off and "cruise at the back" rather than engage in racing is, in my opinion, wrong.

 

[Valter Ostman]

The cars that are driving in slalom-style in front of the pursuing cars are also partly responsible for causing first turn difficulties. It causes a series of reactions which is difficult to handle for the cars behind. If all the cars in front were able to get through the first corner smoothly, we would not have any big problems. And it's still the pursuing drivers responsibility to always adapt their driving and be prepared to slow down quick enough to avoid contact when it has become chaos ahead. Lastly, with no "Grosjeans" in front we should be okay.

 

[Peter Marshall]

I don't believe Nico was suggesting that anyone should not "get on it" when the lights go out. I do think those of us at the mid to back of the pack have little choice but to coast into the braking zone of turn 1 on the opening lap. Being open wheelers and all...

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

I promised myself I wouldn't respond and just let it pass, but since I'm an idiot that suffers from chronic "hoof in mouth" disease I respectfully disagree with both points. On the first, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I choose not to enter a circular discussion on the attribution of sync and lag induced issues.

Not answering would be a big mistake. You caused Peter's race to end after 5 seconds! You do not post a video but rather say that it looked like lag, that his car suddenly stopped in front of you. Iow you take no responsibillity. From the server replay I see no other lag than what we long ago have deemed predictable from Aussie cars. However it seems you are going full throttle all the way to about 125 meters where you have to take avasive actions to avoid Peter. I know my replay may be inaccurate, but it is you who are supposed to post video and discuss the facts.

On the second, I think it would be better to say that everyone must show appropriate caution the entire race with particular emphasis at the start of a race. To imply that some need to be more careful than others and to back off and "cruise at the back" rather than engage in racing is, in my opinion, wrong.

The point I was trying to make is that the further back the line you are, the more unpredictable it gets, and one way to tackle unpredictabillity is by coasting. If your goal is to score a maximum points over a season, causious starts is the way to go. If I was in your position, I would have had a much more coasting approach and Peter would have had a chance to race beyond turn 1.

The guys in the front row needs to go full throttle, second row almost full pace, third row also quite fast but slightly more margins, 4th row, here it starts to get more crowded etc etc.

 

[Bob Luneski]

Ok, since I don't want to make a big mistake. This is where it get's into the my opinion vs your opinion. My view is that Peter began, quite unexpectedly, braking 50+ meters before anyone else for the turn. If you notice the rate that the field(which is not braking) continues away from Peter, he's not coasting, he's under heavy braking for which it is my opinion there was no way for me to reasonably expect at that point. What I see from my cockpit is the field moving away and Peter stopping. Regardless, I successfully avoided him by a very large margin. I deeply regret the lag in Peter's internet connection that failed to communicate the position of my car accurately, but I didn't hit him. I don't know how to make a video which is why I only posted pics of me missing Peter. I would gladly send you my replay. I still disagree with you on this matter.

 

[David Turnbull]

dont know if im the best guy to be giving an opinion on this seeing as im involved with an incident from this race already but here goes.....

i think bobs speed at the point of sync/contact was way too high for the situation, if it hadnt been peter who was hit it wouldve been someone else in front, even when bob swerves out of peters way he is still doing way above a safe speed in that situation.

id also say that peter eased off/braked a little too early, the guys in front looked to have kept going a bit longer, if you look at nicos video the first part shows peter slow alot earlier than the pack which in turn catches bob out.

solution, bob needs to adjust speed according to the situation at the start, a1 ring t1 is very tight so theres a big concertina effect, i feel wether or not contact occured with peter, bob was never going to stop in time and someone else wouldve been affected.

peter could try stay with the pack a bit more and not back out too early (although ive not seen peters view which could indicate he had to slow suddenly due to the guys in front)

hope this helps.

 

[Bob Luneski]

I uploaded my replay file.

... i feel wether or not contact occured with peter, bob was never going to stop in time and someone else wouldve been affected

This is an excellent point, had there been someone in the middle of the track we would have collided and three peoples race would have been affected.

solution, bob needs to adjust speed according to the situation at the start...peter could try stay with the pack a bit more and not back out too early
hope this helps.

This helps a great deal. I concur.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

I agree with what David said except that you would have hit someone else.

The point here is that you were involved in a bad incident that had grave consequences. I thought it was obvious for all that the one thing we all need to do is to do a proper incident report. (therefore I said it would be a big mistake if you decided to not comment your own incident).

Also, we had a similar sync incident a few races ago, where it was ruled that everybody must be aware of this danger in particular around Aussie cars. You have not said anything about how close you get to Peter in your replay, only that it is a very large margin, so I assume it is alot more than in the video I posted.

I agree that Peter might have braked too early and or/too hard, or in other words over-reacting to what happened ahead of him. It looks like that was a contributing factor. But this is information you should come to without me interfering and being on the receiving end of sarcastic remarks.

 

[Bob Luneski]

There was no sarcasm intended and I'm sorry if you interpreted any response in that manner. I thought I had posted a proper incident report with pictures from my replay and comments. I thought the incident had been resolved. I don't know how to make videos on my triple screen, I will upload my replay with any future incident reports.

 

[Peter Marshall]

RE my incident:
I was mentally and emotionally "over it" before I hit the ESC key. From my side it was "all good". My most excellent run of consecutive races finished is over, but that had to happen didn't it?

I consider myself to be a very calm driver. I control my own vehicle to be very predictable [IMO] which is a responsibility I take seriously in order to avoid being the focus of any post race incident discussions [such as this one]. Massive FAIL two races in a row!!! Bugger!!!

I was not going to immortalize such a paltry low-point of my PrestoGP racing carreer with an U-Tube video but after reading all this above, well here it is:

The 1st three clips are from my Local replay file and the last two are from the Server replay file. As I stated in my report, they appear to be close to identical/ same. This gives me no comfort, however, as I do not understand whose Internet Connection [Bob's, mine, CISCO Systems,etc...] "is to blame". Bob suggests it is my Internet Connection and I do not wish to argue that point as it really is a Telecommunications Companies' Internet Connection and they [the Telcos] are all considered bastards here in Australia; unless you work for them... J

From my clips, did I brake too early? I would do the same thing next time so perhaps I have a judgement problem....

I plan to start the next few races from the back of the pack. I am not going to Qualify. My confidence in racing is well and truly shot to pieces. Although I have participated in every race in the Euro PrestoGP series and one complete Pacific series, I simply do not have thousands of hours experience many members have [687.1 hrs]. I believe this is also becoming a problem as I do not practice practice practice....

I make no apology for my long post J

 

[David Turnbull]

like i mentioned in my post about the incident i was unsure of what happened in front of you, now its clear that you were braking for the concertina effect of the pack slowing down, the guy in front of you slowed suddenly so it was natural for you to slow too.

i'll give you 9 out of 10 for the big air though.

 

[Valter Ostman]

There is no reason for you to start from the back Peter. Me and the other guys far back must make sure that we will do a better job in the future. A state of balance between competitiveness and safety must be restored. How many hundredths would Bob have lost from easing off enough to make a clean pass there?

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

In the back it's pretty normal to start braking at 250-300m mark, i ususally lift just a bit and start pressing brakes slowly at those distances. The deceleration is very gradual and i've found that it causes less confusion for those unfortunate following my fat ass. First sign of deceleration starts the chainreaction behind me and i want to give my signals as soon and clear as possible. Apart from Monza, hadn't had any rear endings so it must've been working... Last race from 15th to 12th and safe. Last season it was much harder for me until i found that "trick", it was mainly good luck that i didn't cause massive Grosjeans.. Lots of locked brakes, last minute swerves etc. but that gradual braking has been the best solution for me. In the front, you need to brake a bit more sharply, otherwise you get rear-ended, midpack i think this will work too but needs to be sharper than my 250m brake distances from half speed..

 

[Reik Major]

Peter, I hope you get back your confindence very soon and feel encouraged by all the supporting posts. I mean who else can call such a long incident free periode his own? There are many quicker drivers with more incidents in their account. That doesn't mean they have many incidents, but you have very, very few over the whole periode.

From my point of view you did nothing wrong. And honestly for me it looks like Bob just made a mistake by braking too late simply not adding enough extra meters to his braking zone to properly react on a possible traffic jam in front. The sync issue finally just makes it a little bid harder to judge who's connection failed to make it a close call instead of a big crash. But that doesn't really matter, because from my view on all the vids above it is certain, that Bob was too late.

Bob, please don't feel punished by my wording. I'm just mentioning my observations and ask everyone in advance to treat me the same straight way when I make a mistake.

Please let me add, that I also wouldn't exactly know where the right braking point is, if I had to start from the back or in the middle. So I support Kennetts methode to better start coasting sooner than later to be predictabel and to be able to react properly (smooth -> no over reaction).

PS: Thank you for your "long" post Peter! It's very much apreciated as it adds a differnent view on the situation. Also thx to Bob for your honest words.

 

[Anthony Ishak]

I agree with Reik, i also can’t see anything wrong with the way Peter slowed behind that car; he simply did what to be expected from a safe driver.

You deserve to qualify like anyone of us on the grid Peter.

Bob, it is not the end of the world, let’s have some great racing at Abu Dhabi

 

[Reik Major]

Yup, full steam ahead to Abu Dhabi. I hope to find some time to...

practice practice practice....

J

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

After seeing Peter's video I to agree that he did nothing wrong. Besides that I stand 100% behind Reik's post and wish that I was as good with words as he is

 

[Reik Major]

 

[Bob Luneski]

Has anyone looked at my replay file???? Since a sync issue is involved it's not inconceivable the both of us responded reasonably given what was presented to them. It's very disappointing that no one has mentioned having viewed it.

I respectfully withdraw from further participation in this season. My wrist injury has prevented me from sufficient time behind the wheel to feel confident in my driving. I wish everyone the best of luck in the remaining races.