Season 9 Race 1 Hungaroring - Preperation thread

[Kennett Ylitalo]

I'll share this graph i made for a noob explaining about different braking techniques. Mostly about too hard brakes vs light braking.

The red line is hard brakes overshooting the corner a bit (to make error more clear..), blue line is light braking and green light blue line is target speed. EDIT: updated the pic, yellow line now shows the alien curve..

It took me ages to realize the difference and what it means. The aliens can produce that red line but they know when to let go so they get the blue line end = yellow line. That means shortest brake distances combined with perfect apex and exit.. Easy... Not...Takes years unless it's inborn talent.. What i was explaining about is that the time difference between the two styles is minute. In our race class it's less than a tenth per corner.. The blue line is easy to to produce, all it takes is patience (heh, right.. easy..). But we all want to get that line closer to red...EDIT: Yellow...

Your thoughts on this? Would be nice to collect some real life data... It's possible, some driver just need to enable MoTec logging in their .PLR files.

EDIT: What i've gathered from our fastest drivers is that their brake curves is mostly blue with a steeper beginning and goes to yellow in the hairpins. amirite? And how much modulation there is or is it reserved for those "i'm not quite sure/TOO FAST!!!" moments.. I'm here to learn first, then practice and race that knowledge to a skill.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

I do not use Motec, so from a practical view I try to acheive what Kennett describes through what I can feel from the car:

If my tyres squeel all the way from corner entry to corner exit (using all grip availeble), and also that I use the whole track (outside curb - apex - outside curb) and that I decellerate all the way to apex and start accellerate no later than apex

If tyres don't squeel I am going too slow, if I miss apex I am turning in too late, if I cannot go on accelerator at apex I am comming in too hot.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

TBH I don't know how I brake. I just brake and once I lift the brake pedal I never touch it again. For this mod I've set my load cell to position 5 cause I saw too many lock ups.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

Playing for only two days is hard for me but I'm improving faster and faster. Yesterday I broke the 12s in Q, today I did this:

I'm so happy but when I made a detailed review of my lap I see big mistakes. S2 for example. Too slow out of the chicane, completely messed up the two corners after that and not an accurate entry for the fast right hander. In S3 I made a little cut and then a big mistake at the penultimate corner. If I were able to do a clean lap it would probably be somewhere around 10.0 but I'm still very happy with what I've achieved for the last two days. I'll say it once again - switching from a completely arcady game like F1 2011 to this is not an easy job. Thank you all for the help!

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Nice lap, i need to start practicing, don't yet know what pace i have.. Looks like you roll in the corners a lot (light brakes and engine braking, rolling..), could that be coming from F1 2011... BTW, how much is there difference between crapmasters F1 and Race07+MMG and what are the biggest ones?

 

[Victor Ivanov]

1st and most important - here if you go on the grass you are on the grass. You lose grip, time and you're very very prone to spin. In F1 2011 you can drive on the grass with no difference.
2nd - the mega grip there. For example in F1 2011 you can take T4 (the fast left hander on the top of the hill) on 6th and flat. Impossible here. You have super grip on corner entry and you can smash the throttle too early without being aware of spinning. Hamilton's pole lap was 20.9. My best lap is 11.9. That's because of the super grip I guess.
3rd - curbs. In F1 2011 you can ride the curbs like they aren't present at all. Only some corners have actual curb sense (the chicane at Hungaroring and Nurburgring).
4th - the setups. In F1 2011 you have absolutely basic setup.
5th - the downshifting. In F1 2011 you can downshift so freaking fast that if you do it here you'll definitely spin. I find that when I downshift too fast my back end steps which is cool This can't happen in CM's game.
6th - brakes. In F1 2011 I race with 50-50 BB but most of the people use 47F-53R and this not normal. Rear F1 cars use like 53-54F.
7th - tyres. It seems like the tyre wear is pre-programmed. No matter how you drive or set your car up the wear is the same or almost the same. Not a big difference at all. The only thing that matters is the ability to handle worn tyres and this is something where I'm really good.
8th - taking care of the car. In F1 2011 you don't care about the car in the race cause it can't brake at all. You constantly overrev the engine on either upshift or downshift - doesn't matter.
9th - turbo mega slipstream. Even with 2011 performance you can take Force India and follow a McLaren on low engine map and still keep it's pace.
10th - DRS, KERS, Pirellis - well this is something which is better than Race 07. No need to explain. It just adds more fun and tactics.
There are probably more differences.
TBH I love F1 2011. I had great fun there with the people from RD but I'm annoyed from it. I wanted something different and finally I found something that makes me happy and returned my racing will.
About the rolling - I don't know, it's just my style...

PS: if you have time you can watch my videos in my channel and you'll notice most of the differences.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Nice review, that's what i expected but in so ridiculous amounts, 9 seconds faster is not realistic at all..

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

I tried to join server but it says Hungaroring 2011 and kicks me out for "possible cheat". I have the non-fixed version and weren't it suppose to be the earlier version?

EDIT: Got it, 11 version has the same name in the tracklist as the earlier one, no problems anymore..

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

I tried to join server but it says Hungaroring 2011 and kicks me out for "possible cheat". I have the non-fixed version and weren't it suppose to be the earlier version?

It should be this one:

Wed. 29th of Aug, 8pm-9.30pm – Race 1 – Hungaroring​

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

It should be this one:

Yeah, got it. They have exactly the same name and path.. EDIT: Doing 1:13-14 ATM, nothing to worry, i'm on target Couldn't find a suitable setup so i'm starting from scratch, based on last season Barca setup. It proves to be good starting point, instantly felt better. Car is sliding a lot, maybe is cause of lo grip circuit, i'll check the gripvalues..

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Gripvalues for Hungaroring:

DryGrip: 1.00
WetGrip: 0.82

For new members, those are directly translated to percents, 1.00 is 100%. That is the default SimBin grip, it's a bit slippery. About 50% of addons use that and the rest use more, none use less, AFAIK. Default SimBin tracks.. hmm.. haven't checked that.. But they feel more grippy. If you want to check gripvalues yourself, locate the trackfolder, then locate a file called [trackname].GDB, for ex Hungaroring.GDB. Locate a line that starts RoadDryGrip and RoadWetGrip. Those values are the grip modifier used for human drivers (vehicle grip x RoadDryGrip = Total grip). AI has it's own gripvalues (so that trackdesigners can adjust the AI behaviour/lap times on track...).

There are total of 15 different materials on track . 12 of those are driveable (plus one default that has no feedback and is not driveable, for default smooth collisions..). Read this post for better understanding: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/race07-materials.46345/

RoadDryGrip only affect roada, b1-b3roads. From trackbuilders view, this is very limiting but when applied carefully, is sufficient. SimBin has locked a lot of stuff, hardcoded so they can not be changed. This simplifies the track learning process a lot. You don't have to worry if one corner has more grip than other or inside is grippier than outside, 9,9% of tracks use the same material for the whole road width. Some use patches of different colored tarmac, those may be different material.

There is very small advance of staying on the racingline, so small that no test so far has proven any considerable changes in lap times but it is suppose to be there. Things change in the wet, there is a wetline, it dries more quickly and has the max grip (the one mentioned in the RoadWetGrip..) available. The width of the line is defined in the AIW file (AIW has all the driveline in them, pit and garage paths and locations.), search for GrooveWidthWet. But once you know this things, you may pick up what is being used and where. That may help dealing with a tricky corner.

I might produce some screenshots that reveal the map in it's entirety and i will be checking the track inner workings, like i did last season. It's very educational for me, albeit frustrating with all the errors i find and you have to suffer hearing about. It is my simulation of walk around the track, something real life teams does. But i won't be doing any fixes this season, purely analytic service.

I'll be happy to share any information and answer any questions.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

I do not use Motec, so from a practical view I try to acheive what Kennett describes through what I can feel from the car:

If my tyres squeel all the way from corner entry to corner exit (using all grip availeble), and also that I use the whole track (outside curb - apex - outside curb) and that I decellerate all the way to apex and start accellerate no later than apex

If tyres don't squeel I am going too slow, if I miss apex I am turning in too late, if I cannot go on accelerator at apex I am comming in too hot.

That is different, i try to minimize tire squeal and maximizing tire scrub. Got into mid 1:12s, also expected. Setup is coming nicely, starting to downgrade wings now. I'm 8/38 ATM (if i remember correctly..), couldn't find enough mechanical grip. My downforce starts really working after 160kph, having hard times on corners slower than that. Mostly it feels like the throttle is a triggerhappy, have to be really careful with revs, lots of shortshifting.. Gearing is going to be crucial for me, need to work next on those, they are close to ideal but i could use some help on some corners so i'll work on that. Also don't know if switching to 6-speed would be useful, using 2nd on slow corners and 1st on start/pits only.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

Can you tell me what time difference give 10 L more fuel and what's the difference between the SS, S and M tyres? For now I found that softs can last 17 laps with no problems but if I push hard and set low 12s the front left tends to overheat. Oh and how much time cost one pit stop cause I've never done any yet

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

I'll get more accurate data soon, but for now:

Pit stop: It greatly depends on what you are doing there. Just stop and go will cost you.. 5-7 sec perhaps. If you add 60 liters of fuel and change tyres... maybe 45 seconds all together.

How much time fuel cost you... I wonder if I found out some time ago that 10 liters is very roughly 0,2 sec.

Kennett, scrub or squeel, I do not know the difference. What I mean is that when my tyres are on the edge of grip level they create a squeeling sound. This sound I have boosted 50% in the menu so I more easily can listen to my tyres and when I am on the edge of grip.

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

Nice lap Victor nice to see you have came from f1 2011 you will like this sim world alot better
On the pit stops, its also worth knowing that you have to call for pits, i usually do this start of lap im coming in to get your pit crew ready saves a few seconds and also once tires changed you can start the car up also saves a second or two with mapping the starter and ignition keys ingame. Being exact in your pit box is also difficult and i myself have lost time by missing the box a few time more than i would like . This is worth a little practise before races and also during practise night of race once you know your pit box.
Also with no speed limit somtimes you can take limitor off on entry if pit box is near the end.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

Man if I were only able to combine my best sectors in just one Q lap it would be the best for me! The ideal lap I was able to set today was 1.09.951! But it's only ideal... I just couldn't make it but it will happen sooner or later. At least the good thing is my race pace dropped a lot since sunday when I was doing 13s. Now I can do 11s in the first 6-7 laps. Jeez I love this track have I told you this before?

 

[Victor Ivanov]

Jeez 10.480 with huge error in the last corner. I lost more than half a second there. I was -0.9 after the penultimate corner but after that mistake I finished only -0.3xx of my previous best lap. I'm still searching for the best steering lock. Before today I was using 540 with 27 lock. Today I lowered the lock to 25 and there's huge difference in tyre temps. Does anybody know how can I make the in car wheel to have 540 degrees and match my real wheel?

 

[Reik Major]

I have in game steering lock between 14 - 15. I use a black momo. Maybe the G 25 and G 27 users can help better?

 

[David Turnbull]

270 degrees in logitech profiler and 14-15 steering lock ingame

 

[Reik Major]

Oh and how much time cost one pit stop cause I've never done any yet

In addition to the tips from Sean and Nico I like to show you the pit stop procedure wich sums it all up. I made this vid some month ago at Silverstone...

This is the setp by step procedure:

1.
Being on track you press the asigned button for pit request.

2.
Crossing the pit entry the game automatically engages the limiter, so you have to disengage it immediately with an asigned button. Some times your spot is so close to the pit entry you have to brake before crossing the entry line (so you can disengage the limiter when being refilled). Otherwise you go flat out through the pits to brake as late as possible to hit your spot.

3.
When crossing the entry line the presets window pops up (you have to create those presets in the options before entering the grid). If you are in sync with your scheduled strategy you should already have selected the rigth preset, so you have to press "confirm" before you reach your spot to get your crew working immediately. Otherwise you may want to make changes to the settings when standing at your spot - the crew will wait that time. (I some times change presets or make small adjustments when driving on a longer straight but I also had bad trouble when doing so. So I better make bigger adjustments in the pits to be safe).

4.
The engine gets automatically turned off under refilling. Once the crew starts changing tyres you should engage it manually again (asign a button for "starter" or "ignition" I think). This should save you ~ 5 seconds because otherwise the engine would get started after dropping you down.

5.
Leave the pit as quick as possible but without crossing the white pit exit line with any wheel (like real F1). If there's incoming traffic from behind and you are in a defending position on the inside line like at Hungaroring, of course you are allowed to defend but you should be able to hold a tight line through the corner.

Last and important thing:

When you enter the server on race day, you receive your pit spot for the whole event. So you should find out in this practise session where it is and when to brake for it. But the general pit in/pit out should be practised prior each event to be safe for yourself and for others.

I wrote it so detailed in the hope that every new comer gets the best idea of our pit stop system. A short click on "like" would let all others know you read and understood the procedure.