Season 8 Race 10 Monaco Setup

I have a couple general questions about setup and driving style.

- With Reik's setup (and any other I tried) I've never found braking oversteer, yet for race you recommend to put it even further front. Am I doing something wrong? Because my feeling is you could put it even more to the back to help turn in. Maybe I am not using enough engine brake, but I drop gears like a machine gun (cannot go faster unless I program a button to skip gears) and still I don't get an unstable back.

- Any advice for the extremely slow turns (hairping and rascasse)?
 
I do not have a direct answer, but I can tell you that I do not use brake bias to make the car better to drive at all (even though I know many do). Mine is always between 56/44 and 60/40, and I tend to adjust it only to help towards even tyre wear over a whole stint (if my rear wears more than front I might click bias towards rear). I also never adjust engine braking, maybe a mistake reading what others do, but I like to have virtually the same setup all the time so I get super-comfortable with it, on the other side, if engine braking could be adjusted ingame I probably would have adjusted it :)
 
Brake oversteer is rare occurrence except if the front brakes fade out due to high temperatures, then the rear might snap, i had this in China. For me, i click few times to front in the race because of higher fuel load then click it back at the end of stints with light load. Mostly it's as far back as i can get, 55/45 is the median. There are tracks where i want the front to lock up sooner but that's just me..

Hairpins.. hmmm... i take Loews wide entry and angle it tight for exit, don't know if it's the fastest way. I don't use heavy braking, somewhere around 50-60%, it locks up so easily in slow speeds. In Rascasse it's sharp heavy brake early and then let it roll on light brakes and follow the line, easy on exit as the rear kicks up easily. Small oversteer slide is allowed there, the wall is so close that it doesn't do any damage. I would also like to get more tips on how to do Loews, you can easily lose a second there.

BTW, we are using the tighter Rascasse, they have opened it since. I don't think that it was in this form in 2007, if i remember correctly, they opened it up in 2001 by moving it full 10m... Next season, let's use the 2008 layout, pls..

EDIT: Just noticed that i take two sharp brakings in the Rascasse, brakepedal movement follows the corner shape.. Funny, never consciously knew i did that.
 
I have to say, my qualy laps are so close to this, every throttle press to max is exactly in the same place in each corner. Except i have a BIG problem in Tabac, i just can't get the line correct, can't seem to find any visual clues of where to turn so i take it in 3rd gear and very easy. In 2008 version and in real life there are those white lines in the Armco, also i see that in Tabac there is one black line and one red too, would be so helpful to have those.. There is the gap in the armco but it's visible after turn in so it just helps the exit not the initial turn in. Also, check the Rascasse, it's very different in our version.

 
I've made setups for both 1 and 2 stop. Both feels nice throughout the stint (even tyre wear) and the pace did not seem too bad either, but I do not think the 1 stop setup is within 0,5 sec of the 2 stop one, it is closer to 1 sec difference (Best lap with 18 lap setup = 1:13,999, 27 lap setup = 1:15,390) :)

Next season, let's use the 2008 layout, pls..
Next season Monaco isn't on the calendar (naturally), you'll have to wait for season 10 if you want to promote the 2008 version :)
 

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Ok.. This is going to be controversial. I found what was wrong in the Tabac corner. The trackbuilder had made a mistake and bury three flags under the grandstand, each had Y axis off exactly 8m. I fixed it and tested online, no mismatches, of course (visual aspects of the game are very loosely enforced..)... But if anyone has objections with this solution, i won't use the fix and take the link down. Here are screenshots of Tabac corner after the fix:

Tabac1.jpg

Tabac3.jpg


I haven't yet tested if they help at all but when i inspect the corner in game, i saw those flags just about peeking thru the grandstand and crowd. Since they all were the exact same amount off in one axis onlyi knew that it was a mistake (or last minute decision, hasty and poor one, might i say...simple delete would've been the correct way to do this, easier too so i suspect a human error)

The fix is here, download, unpack and move the three objects to GameData\Locations\Monaco\2007\Models, confirm overwrite. But first i need some sort of approval for this, i'm honorable man and we all need to trust each other here. Anyone can use this fix without others knowing it, it would be considered as a cheat if not all have the exact same version of the track..

Give me your opinion on this.. I will confess that i'll do my practice today with the fix installed and change my track accordingly of what we decide to do. Too bad i didn't notice this a week ago.
 
The fix definitely helps me, i can now get to 5th gear in the swimming pool chicane. Mostly it's coming from consistency, before there was just a grey barrier with just a little hint in the outside corner adbanners. Now i can aim better and do it the same way everytime. I bet that after todays practice, i won't need those flags anymore.. But i'm glad that they are there now.
 
I have a couple general questions about setup and driving style.

- With Reik's setup (and any other I tried) I've never found braking oversteer, yet for race you recommend to put it even further front. Am I doing something wrong? Because my feeling is you could put it even more to the back to help turn in. Maybe I am not using enough engine brake, but I drop gears like a machine gun (cannot go faster unless I program a button to skip gears) and still I don't get an unstable back.

- Any advice for the extremely slow turns (hairping and rascasse)?

Well, maybe it's a good prove that most of the setup are well balanced. To give you the best feedback it would be great to see your best lap, for example via youtube or by posting the replay file. Otherwise I can only guess the reasons so far.

One guess would be that you are completely ready with braking when turning in. So braking hard and downshifting fast in a straight line holds the car in a line and afterwards when turning in the car's weight is back to neutral so it doesn't over steer.

In most cases I brake as late as possible and when I turn in I'm still braking by constantly releasing the brakes. By doing this, the rear is still lighter when turning so it wants to overtake me. If I downshift in the wrong moment in such a situation, the rear tyres will lock easier because of the lighter rear. Then I spin. But most likely I'm able to controll this effect so the slightly oversteering rear helps to turn the car quicker.

If the car's rear is very nervous in the early phase of braking (and the start of turning) I add few clicks to rear wing to put more load on the rear by more downforce and/or I move the brake balance some clicks to the front.

If the oversteer comes late when turning in I increase engine brake mapping by one or two numbers in the svm-file.

Why I do those changes for longer stints? Well, I think my setups have some "agressive" touch (sometimes harder/stiffer than usually). So the car tends to slide a little bit earlier as it would do with a softer setup. On the other hand it's quicker when you drive it well (smooth). But when tyre wear increases during a longer stint sliding increases too and the rear becomes harder to tame. To compensate that I soften the rear here and there and move braking more to the front.

Finally such effects depend very much on driving style. If you don't experience turn in over steer you can be happy and maybe increase your agressiveness. Why increase agressiveness? The tricky effects occure when you're very close to the edge. Maybe you still aren't close enough to the edge so there's something more to gain? That's why I always show the speed indicator when showing my laps, so you can compare the corner speeds.

You could try the following:
Lets say there's a corner you are significantly slower than the one you compare to. First focus on taking the corner with nearly the same speed and without caring for the (late) braking point in the first step. If you manage to hit the same entry point and the same line like the other one you should be able to do the same speeds. This way you learn the line and explore the grip limit of the car. If you're done with that you can move the braking point closer to the corner but still try to take the corner the same way you learned before. You'll finally notice the naturally loose rear if you brake at the latest possible point, turn in still under braking and still carry the highest possible speed into and through the corner. Now taming the rear by style and setup is the task... :)

Hmm..., advices for the hairpin and rascass.

For the hairpin you need to find the right braking point, brake hard and turn in when you are nearly ready with breaking so the car likes to turn. Exiting the corner you can help turning with a controlled power oversteer. By shortly hitting the brakes then and counter steering you could benefit from the counter reaction to enter the following right hander quickly. But donig it just clean should allways be good. Overshooting it means you have to turn much more and drive it much sharper so you'll loose time.

Rascass should also been taken very tight and clean. I brake hard on the left track side when the black rubber on the track begins. I'm ready with braking when I turn to the right. Taking the right hander very tight is important becasue it's the grippy racing line and takes you the least time. The car likes very much to power oversteer at the exit so I often need to make an anticipated counter steer.
 
The fix definitely helps me, i can now get to 5th gear in the swimming pool chicane. Mostly it's coming from consistency, before there was just a grey barrier with just a little hint in the outside corner adbanners. Now i can aim better and do it the same way everytime. I bet that after todays practice, i won't need those flags anymore.. But i'm glad that they are there now.

Half a sec off from PB, 1:13.505 now, was not happy about the lap. Almost spun at Loews exit, had to push brakes to straighten it... The Tabac corner is easier with the fix.

I'm probably going with mixed tires in the race, only thing hindering is that qualy vs race setup becomes very different.. That would mean less confidence during qualy lap... Also Casino corner is slow and hard with the race setup.
 

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