Season 5 rules discussion

[Harry Platt]

They would all need to be tested, to make sure they are drivable and not have an unfair advantage in anyway (I believe anyway) as they all have a huge variation in power.
But I'm sure that would work if we added them to the 2WD class. Last year I believe there weren't that many people keen on 2WD, good to see a few more interested this year.

Perhaps you could set the rules so that the 2WD class is R1, R2, R3 or if a competitor would like to use a particular car from N1, N2, N3 or A5, A6, A7, then they apply to have it 'homologated' into the championship, by which you then test that car against the Group R's to see how it compares in performance. That way you don't have to go through testing every single car from Group N and A, just the car(s) that people would like use

 

[Jack Hintz]

Fair point, sounds like a plan

 

[Sion Williams]

I also like this idea, I could help out with the 'homologation' if needs be, only really use the FWD cars in the game so quite experienced on them! haha

Sion

 

[Deleted member 950]

Perhaps you could set the rules so that the 2WD class is R1, R2, R3 or if a competitor would like to use a particular car from N1, N2, N3 or A5, A6, A7, then they apply to have it 'homologated' into the championship, by which you then test that car against the Group R's to see how it compares in performance. That way you don't have to go through testing every single car from Group N and A, just the car(s) that people would like use

That's like what I said in offseason of S4 (see the first post).
But a homologation will be great, maybe WRC can also do that so that the Focus can be used

Busy forming WRC/ERC team for rallyesim as well. As well as new car for video.

 

[Juen-Jen Wang]

Yeah I like this idea as well. This way people can drive cars that can complete with the "default" class of cars and not get upset if the groups picked for the classes aren't a part of their plans. it is also helps focuses the organizer's work and removes a lot of redundant testing. Hopefully this will be accepted... just waiting to shout in the Alfa 33 for the 2WD champ as soon as something like this is open

 

[Alasdair Beck]

They would all need to be tested, to make sure they are drivable and not have an unfair advantage in anyway (I believe anyway) as they all have a huge variation in power.
But I'm sure that would work if we added them to the 2WD class. Last year I believe there weren't that many people keen on 2WD, good to see a few more interested this year.

Yeah I think if all the people like myself and others do end up in 2wd it could be quite a nice little battle.

 

[Jonatan Åcerclinth]

I also want a finger in this battle although I'm slow but consistent

I've tested most of the FWD cars and the ones I like the most is the VW Polo 1.4, the Golf IV/VI (GTI) and the Alfa33

 

[Michael Nelson]

I would be really keen on an "RDRC Academy" Category. Either one-make Fiesta R2 like in real life's WRC Academy (now Junior WRC), or the entire R2 category. I felt like the N4 cars were the beginner options for the RDRC, but I was still crashing a lot , and feel like R2 would be a better option.

That said, I don't think it should be mandatory, some people could definitely find it too slow. But for beginners I think it could be helpful.

I also think grading should just go away and be replaced with the option of changing class during the season. This would lessen the work load on the directors, and I can't really think of any negatives - if someone picks a car too fast for themselves then they can just move down.


I find the new classes kind of confusing, but I'd think something like this:

Overall (includes all Rx, Nx, and S2000 cars as well as A8W_11/12/13)
WRC-2 (includes R5, R4, S2000 and N4) (and RRC?)
-WRC-2 Production (includes R4 and N4)
WRC-3 (Includes R1, R2 and R3) (And other 2WD cars?)
-RDRC Academy (Includes R2)

 

[Jack Hintz]

Anything over 4 categories is too much work for the team, and removing grading altogether simply wouldn't work. it would make things much more confusing for all the organisers if everybody is constantly changing cars and such, and its better to have grades because of each drivers personal level, putting everybody with the same driver levels together makes for better competition too. You don't see somebody of Academy driver level start the championship in an R2 Fiesta, then jump to a DS3WRC for the second round, then to a Peugeot S2000 for the third round etc. It just doesnt work.
It would also ruin the championship for everbody that takes it seriously.
Grading is staying, but we will be looking into changing it slightly. We may end up regrading everybody, so we can start the new season fresh and everybody is driving in the right classes for their driver level.

Currently classes is looking like this:

RDRC
RDRC-2
RDRC Production
RDRC-3

Over the next few weeks we will be testing out different cars/stages for RDRC in Rally Club, only after that will the final cars be confirmed.
This season will be featuring some new additions, and we will be trying to follow the actual WRC closely (in regards to cars/ rules etc).

 

[TTupsi]

How about limiting the numbers of car changes? Maybe just one change per year. In my opinion if people want to drive different car every round they should do Rally Club, not RDRC.

I personally wouldn't want the current grading system if it forces me to use WRC cars

 

[Jack Hintz]

It is to make the playing field fair for everybody, and prevents easy winning/cheating
Everybody will be getting a regrade now that I think about it, so everybody is in the right classes for their level.
We could do a mid season swap like we did last season, but it would be the same as last season in regards to you would lose that classes points if you go up to the next level (pretty sure thats how it worked)
@Taipo, are you in one of the higher grades currently? If so you'll either need to use WRC (MAYBE, still yet to confirm car classes) or stop being so good!

 

[Michael Nelson]

Anything over 4 categories is too much work for the team, and removing grading altogether simply wouldn't work. it would make things much more confusing for all the organisers if everybody is constantly changing cars and such, and its better to have grades because of each drivers personal level, putting everybody with the same driver levels together makes for better competition too. You don't see somebody of Academy driver level start the championship in an R2 Fiesta, then jump to a DS3WRC for the second round, then to a Peugeot S2000 for the third round etc. It just doesnt work.
It would also ruin the championship for everbody that takes it seriously.
Grading is staying, but we will be looking into changing it slightly. We may end up regrading everybody, so we can start the new season fresh and everybody is driving in the right classes for their driver level.

Currently classes is looking like this:

RDRC
RDRC-2
RDRC Production
RDRC-3

Over the next few weeks we will be testing out different cars/stages for RDRC in Rally Club, only after that will the final cars be confirmed.
This season will be featuring some new additions, and we will be trying to follow the actual WRC closely (in regards to cars/ rules etc).

Good points.

I had kind of assumed that drivers would be self-selecting when it comes to the class of car they'd be driving to get a close competition, but I can see that wouldn't necessarily be the case.

Also yeah, I hadn't thought about drivers switching cars constantly throughout different events - which wouldn't work well at all in terms of the championship and in terms of organization required.

I think your point about it ruining the enjoyment for people who take it seriously is a very good one, if there's a close championship and someone gets bored in that class and wanders off, that could indeed be a bad thing.

Certainly faster drivers picking slower categories would be bad for beginners who may get discouraged.

I think you've justified the grading system, I just hadn't really understood it prior to your post.

I still would so dearly love an Academy class though . As a beginner I would love a car that is competitive amongst other beginners, but still easy to drive. But I understand that the workload would be too great.

 

[Jack Hintz]

Yeah I would love to have it too, but I believe the software we use can only do 4 classes unfortunately. And I know there are lots of people that love doing 2WD and Group N, so we really can't take any classes out.

Drivers will still get free reign over whatever car they want within their certain class like in previous seasons.

My only worry is that with the grading, I'm worried people will purposely go slow in order to get into a lower class and obliterate the competition. But I'm sure I'll find some way of getting around that

 

[Warren Dawes]

As a beginner I would love a car that is competitive amongst other beginners, but still easy to drive.

The Group N cars are really quite stable and should be fine for beginners, in most cases, just as easy (or easier) than some of the 2WD cars. The 4WD Group N cars are also better "training" cars for the higher powered WRC cars, experience in the Group N cars will stand most drivers in good stead for further promotions. They are also much more closely matched cars too, making competition "theoretically" much better between drivers in different cars. The 2WD cars have much bigger variation between them, which can spread the results more depending on the car a driver chooses.

All based on my experience anyway, others may not agree.

My only worry is that with the grading, I'm worried people will purposely go slow in order to get into a lower class and obliterate the competition. But I'm sure I'll find some way of getting around that

Jack, we already have lots of history for regular drivers, so any experienced driver trying to "sandbag" the Grading events should be obvious. I'd suggest using historical data in addition to grading results when Directors are allocating Grades. That is why we have previously taken previous seasons results into the equation. ie. A driver winning a lower Class must "step up" for the following season.

 

[Jack Hintz]

That is exactly what I was thinking

 

[John Cunningham]

so everybody is in the right classes for their level.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaa-ha So there IS gonna be a 2cv class, I will get painting my skin!

Nah but seriously (!) Grading from historical data from previous rounds is a sort of 'proven' method. After that new drivers do a grading.

In our local moto-x club if someone applies for a grade D race and is obviously a grade A rider, the first time they dont 'sandbag' basically all the riders kinda laugh them over to the marshall who then promotes them to grade A on the spot. Usually with a slow, finger-waving, dissappointed, 'you should be ashamed' look on their face.

The humiliation caused usually keeps these occurances to a minimum. Though sometimes, verrrrrry rarely, it can b a genuine discovery of an 'alien' in our midst...

 

[Viesturs Priede]

I`ve been away for some while but now I hope Im back..partly

Happy to hear about re-grading for everyone since I have moved back to keyboard (which is not entirely correct because I have never been using it.. I mean I have tried it a couple of times but even when I started my SimRacing career I had wheel from the first day). And now Im back in the RBR beginners lounge. Im slow, I crash a lot hence I get angry very often.. But I do love RBR so much I just cant live without it So I`ve decided to keep playing it till I get back to my wheel no matter how many nerves it costs Basically I just wanted to say that in my case the historic data of my past results while taking a re-grade event would not be really valid.

Now, feeling like a total beginner (and being one actually) I understand that FWD is the way to go. Well, at least for keyboard users for sure. 4WDs are not as easy as they would seem, not even the "easy" N4 group cars. FWD is perfect for starters and now Im sure more than ever that beginners here should be lead to FWD either way. Thats just a personal opinion, of course.

I cant wait to start the new season and Im really looking forward to drive some fun FWD car here. Thats why I liked the idea about homologated cars as I would probably prefer using some old Lada which might not be very competitive but as I my self cant be no where near being competitive then I think I should be allowed to at least have some fun in a fun car

 

[TTupsi]

@Taipo, are you in one of the higher grades currently? If so you'll either need to use WRC (MAYBE, still yet to confirm car classes) or stop being so good!

Well that's the case because I consider myself pretty fast with Group N cars which were used to grade people last year and I apparently did pretty well because I achieved Grade 1 in my grading event a year ago.. But when I'm put in a WRC I become less consistent and slower and I'm not sure whether I take part at all this year if I'm forced to use one latest models. Early 00's WRC's on the other hand are much more of my liking, especially that sweet sweet Seat Cordoba. Was it Ole Marius who also liked that car a lot?

 

[TTupsi]

Just thought about this. Let's assume we will have four grades next season:
RDRC (WRC)
RDRC-2 (R5, R4, Production, RRC)
RDRC-Production (R4, N4)
RDRC Academy (FWD)

Why not make it possible for every grade to allow people to pick a car from the lower grades? Eg. RDRC driver could pick S2000 car to fight for RDRC points but he/she would not be eligible for RDRC-2 points although he has the right car choice. But this wouldn't be the the other way around eg. RDRC-Production driver couldn't choose a WRC or R5 car but could choose a RDRC-Academy eligible car.

This would allow drivers in higher grades to choose the car of their likening and still keep the competition close in lower grades. If I happen to grade myself again into Grade 1 or RDRC or whatever it will be, I could choose for example a S2000 car if I find that I'm more competitive in one than in Citroën DS3 WRC. Of course I would still only fight for RDRC points.

 

[Juen-Jen Wang]

I'll be happy with anything as long as we're allowed to apply for homologations for cars that are excluded from the default class