I think it sounds like a good idea.
Season 5 - Race 5 - Monaco - Division 1-2
- Thread starter Valerio Vinassa
- Start date
I think it sounds like a good idea.
Frans van der Linden
Sim Racing Holland
Hi Guys.
Only just had the time to watch replay and to make my race report.....
Quali 16th :
was expected to be the last so that was a great feeling and only a .029 from pb.
Race: 13th
Great start took 4 man and ended next to Peter. Just as he said, there was no where to go and we just went on...
what results me to end up in next trafficjam ahead. no where to go...
Managed to get out of T1 in 12th position.
I knew i was not one of the fasted guys on track and so it took about 2 rounds wenn i made my fisrt mistake that costs me some places.
drove till lap 8 or so, and had to visit the pit bc of damage.
ending up 16th or so ( 1 lap down already to leaders ) the rest is history...... ;-)
I hope i was not to much i the way for the gust that where lapping me. I was looking on map and mirrors like crazy, afraid i would ruin some of this "very fine drivers" there race's...
To all i hit or what so ever IM SORRY ! ! ! !
So podium Grats and all that finished, great work, damp was allover me wenn i finished ;-)
See ya guys all later
Only just had the time to watch replay and to make my race report.....
Quali 16th :
was expected to be the last so that was a great feeling and only a .029 from pb.
Race: 13th
Great start took 4 man and ended next to Peter. Just as he said, there was no where to go and we just went on...
what results me to end up in next trafficjam ahead. no where to go...
Managed to get out of T1 in 12th position.
I knew i was not one of the fasted guys on track and so it took about 2 rounds wenn i made my fisrt mistake that costs me some places.
drove till lap 8 or so, and had to visit the pit bc of damage.
ending up 16th or so ( 1 lap down already to leaders ) the rest is history...... ;-)
I hope i was not to much i the way for the gust that where lapping me. I was looking on map and mirrors like crazy, afraid i would ruin some of this "very fine drivers" there race's...
To all i hit or what so ever IM SORRY ! ! ! !
So podium Grats and all that finished, great work, damp was allover me wenn i finished ;-)
See ya guys all later
Do you really mean this? If we are in the same race but not in the same championship there is no reason to fight for position between e.g. Peter and me. It would serve me better to just let him past in order not to waste time keeping him behind. It would defy the whole point of merging the divisions.
For me one of the main points of merging the division was for the best of div 2 and the slowest in div 1 to get more company. The loneliest place to race is in the front or at the back. Therefore I think it is better with only two “lose ends” than 4. My greatest ambition is to have close racing and exciting and fair battles with friends. The points I collect are secondary to me, even though it is of course interesting to follow the championship standings.
Another good side by only one division is that it very effectively wipes out boring elements such as Eliezer totally dominating qualify or a div 1 guy not having enough time at hand to become competitive enough.
I have been at the back of the field myself before, and I find it rewarding to set goals like trying to be in the points. The amount of point places can of course be adjusted to better fit the larger number of participants.
Please feel free to “talk back”, I am not trying to kill any discussion, because I agree that adjustments needs to be done to improve racing for all.
Tim McIver
PrestoGP Veteran
Apologies from me for a slow turn around on this report...
Qualifying
I was not looking good. Then somehow managed a miracle last lap. With 2 seconds to go I managed to put it on 3rd. Very happy!
Race
I didn't get off the line well. Looked to go into T1 conservatively in p4 and just make sure everything was smooth and safe.
It didn't go that way. Pretty disappointing. To many guys just not being careful. I had significant suspension damage and from there my race was compromised.
In trying to recover after being turned around I was too eager and made contact with Andy. After looking at the replay I must apologise to Andy, my frustration got the better of me, I should definitely have waited.
While I'm apologising, I also ran up the back of Kurt into T1. Sorry Kurt. Apologies also go to David. When he was still in P3 and was looking to lap me (which was quite early in the race) I became very confused as I llapped someone and got blue flags, I was annoyed that whilst I lapped someone I should be shown blue flags. I soon realised that I was an idiot and was holding up David. My apologies.
I managed to stay out and pit Lap 22. Repaired the suspension and went back out already a long way back. Drove a fairly smooth 2nd stint with some other disappointing moments and managed to bring it home in 9th.
Great drive from Mark and Reik who were in a league of their own this race. Great win Mark.
I may as well throw my opinion in on points and mergers as well...
I agree with Nico that if their are 24 guys who want to race then ideally we have one division and we race hard. I am concerned however about our ability to race hard. Monaco was never going to be a great race to test the merge on, regardless of merge it had the potential to be a crazy race. I do feel that have the back of the field 2, 3 or 4 seconds a lap slower is a big problem, but one we can live with. The bigger question is whether all our drivers have the skills to race in a full grid. Its really not easy, and we mustn't forget we are now driving the fastest cars on the earth, they're not very forgiving. Maybe though we just need to push on and do the best we can.
If we are one grid, I agree with Nico, points should be awarded as one grid.
Sorry for not being more upbeat! I plan to be happy and excited for Interlagos. Long live Presto! Thanks to all who make it possible.
Tim.
Qualifying
I was not looking good. Then somehow managed a miracle last lap. With 2 seconds to go I managed to put it on 3rd. Very happy!
Race
I didn't get off the line well. Looked to go into T1 conservatively in p4 and just make sure everything was smooth and safe.
It didn't go that way. Pretty disappointing. To many guys just not being careful. I had significant suspension damage and from there my race was compromised.
In trying to recover after being turned around I was too eager and made contact with Andy. After looking at the replay I must apologise to Andy, my frustration got the better of me, I should definitely have waited.
While I'm apologising, I also ran up the back of Kurt into T1. Sorry Kurt. Apologies also go to David. When he was still in P3 and was looking to lap me (which was quite early in the race) I became very confused as I llapped someone and got blue flags, I was annoyed that whilst I lapped someone I should be shown blue flags. I soon realised that I was an idiot and was holding up David. My apologies.
I managed to stay out and pit Lap 22. Repaired the suspension and went back out already a long way back. Drove a fairly smooth 2nd stint with some other disappointing moments and managed to bring it home in 9th.
Great drive from Mark and Reik who were in a league of their own this race. Great win Mark.
I may as well throw my opinion in on points and mergers as well...
I agree with Nico that if their are 24 guys who want to race then ideally we have one division and we race hard. I am concerned however about our ability to race hard. Monaco was never going to be a great race to test the merge on, regardless of merge it had the potential to be a crazy race. I do feel that have the back of the field 2, 3 or 4 seconds a lap slower is a big problem, but one we can live with. The bigger question is whether all our drivers have the skills to race in a full grid. Its really not easy, and we mustn't forget we are now driving the fastest cars on the earth, they're not very forgiving. Maybe though we just need to push on and do the best we can.
If we are one grid, I agree with Nico, points should be awarded as one grid.
Sorry for not being more upbeat! I plan to be happy and excited for Interlagos. Long live Presto! Thanks to all who make it possible.
Tim.
I am unconcerned about the points system. The season championship is now over for Division 2 and Valter takes the win I think! Congratulations champ.:trophy: You are deserving of the title!
Worrying about who is behind instead of driving forward, one tends to look in the mirrors more and more and then that is the direction you end up going. We can but do our best. Most of the grid have no hope in getting on the podium, though together we can make it special for everyone, right?
Worrying about who is behind instead of driving forward, one tends to look in the mirrors more and more and then that is the direction you end up going. We can but do our best. Most of the grid have no hope in getting on the podium, though together we can make it special for everyone, right?
Reik Major
Premium
About division merge and points system:
After reading some opinions I changed my point of view now. It would be better for the challenge if we all drive in one points system. This would also raise the bar for everyone, because just finishing wouldn't automatically mean you get points.
But then there's the question, how to allocate the points which guys earned so far in Div.1 and Div.2? No matter which device will be used for this points merge, there'll ever be winners and loosers.
Personaly i wouldn't care if i loose some points and positions in this process, but i have easy talking about this.
If there's no good compromise to find, i would find it very interesting to make a cut after Suzuka and start a new table from Monaco onwards (since the divisions are merged). This would mean we still have 5 races for a new, shortend championship with a bigger field and more motivation for some (all) of us...
After reading some opinions I changed my point of view now. It would be better for the challenge if we all drive in one points system. This would also raise the bar for everyone, because just finishing wouldn't automatically mean you get points.
But then there's the question, how to allocate the points which guys earned so far in Div.1 and Div.2? No matter which device will be used for this points merge, there'll ever be winners and loosers.
Personaly i wouldn't care if i loose some points and positions in this process, but i have easy talking about this.
If there's no good compromise to find, i would find it very interesting to make a cut after Suzuka and start a new table from Monaco onwards (since the divisions are merged). This would mean we still have 5 races for a new, shortend championship with a bigger field and more motivation for some (all) of us...
The point solution idea I suggested was only a temporary solution for that particular race "Monaco" and was never meant to be the future solution if both divisions were to be merged permanently, so I must apologies Nico to create a confusion with my post as it never came to my mind what you were exactly after when you asked for a vote..
I thought the div 2 guys had their own unfinished championship that they were fighting for , they were fighting with each other for the whole season, they already got used to race with each other and have created their own racing rhythm , and then at the last minute they have been asked to be on track with div 1, they seemed if they were not ready for that idea yet and they found themselves in a middle of another championship and their race got more complicated..." we had our part of complication as well " but I believe according to their race report, their race was ruined or was impossible because they had to let the div 1 guys race their own race or things like that, so therefore that idea came up into my mind.
you have mentioned many interesting points Nico regarding the merging of both divisions and my personal opinion is maybe to start a new thread with " merging the 2 divisions" so all of us can participate with our opinions to create proper guidelines or rules to be implemented for the remaining races or for the start of the next season...
Regards
Anthony
Hi Guys
If we are going to merge both divisions permanently for next season, than I believe we should race for one championship. Slow drivers like I need to improve to keep up with faster cars (you need to drive with pros to become a pro). I can see a lot of problems with both divisions racing independently on the same track; I will mention one of many: I’m in D_2 racing on Interlagos, Mark & than Reik are coming behind me, I let Mark overtake me easy & make it a bit hard to Reik, than Reik looses 5 seconds or so and he is not going to like it (it’s just a theory Mark & Reik).
Monaco is a very hard track to race on, unfortunately the merging the divisions started there, I personly didn’t like it, but I believe in Interlagos will be much better, and if we are definitely merging next season than maybe avoid tracks like Monaco.
Looking forward to Interlagos one of my favourite tracks, if anyone need help with a set up than don’t hesitate to send me an email to racing@aquavistarestaurant.com.au
If we are going to merge both divisions permanently for next season, than I believe we should race for one championship. Slow drivers like I need to improve to keep up with faster cars (you need to drive with pros to become a pro). I can see a lot of problems with both divisions racing independently on the same track; I will mention one of many: I’m in D_2 racing on Interlagos, Mark & than Reik are coming behind me, I let Mark overtake me easy & make it a bit hard to Reik, than Reik looses 5 seconds or so and he is not going to like it (it’s just a theory Mark & Reik).
Monaco is a very hard track to race on, unfortunately the merging the divisions started there, I personly didn’t like it, but I believe in Interlagos will be much better, and if we are definitely merging next season than maybe avoid tracks like Monaco.
Looking forward to Interlagos one of my favourite tracks, if anyone need help with a set up than don’t hesitate to send me an email to racing@aquavistarestaurant.com.au
Frans van der Linden
Sim Racing Holland
This all wouldnt be necessary,
if all the drivers who signed in at the start of the season, eighter div. 1 or 2,
would also appear on the races.......!!!!
if all the drivers who signed in at the start of the season, eighter div. 1 or 2,
would also appear on the races.......!!!!
First of all, my apologies to Anthony, I tend to do this often, to assume that I understand what other people mean. In this situation I obviously misunderstood your suggestion
I think what we should do is what the majority of our racers think is a good idea (although it helps that I too think it is a good idea). Some might find it sacrilegious to suddenly start the championship all over, but I actually found Reik's proposal very refreshing. Any other thoughts around this?
Frans mentions that this would not have been a problem if those who sign up actually show for the race. I can tell you that after 5 seasons this has always been a problem, but it is a problem we can tend to. This is exactly why this season several things are mandatory, such as:
Reading all info from Race Director
Reading and understanding the Race Document
Handing in a well done incident review after each race
Read the drivers meetings thread and try to participate in the forum.
Putting in a competitive online time well before race day
It is a great correlation between these factors and attendance. I usually know roughly who will show and who will not show just from observing these parameters. For each round we are getting closer to where we should be, where 100% of the members do their part of the job (all of it).
Now it is 13 hours past the deadline and I have received race reports from all but David Turnbull, Janek Grabowski and Nicolas Rouge. In addition it is obvious that all racers do not read the information they should before the race, or what do you think Frans?
My point is that it has taken us 5 seasons, learning as we are going, how to host such a league (no past experience) but now we are very close to have fully adapted a system (based around "The Document") which should give us much more stability.
So the rules are simple and fair I think. Doing your part contributes to making the league move forward (safer, better and more consistant), not doing so is creating obstacles for reaching our goals and is not fair to the rest.
I will spend some time with the Monaco replay and try to point out where drivers have room for improvements. As I have said before, it is important that we all are "syncronised" so that our actions will become predictable for all. This has nothing to do with raising the finger at somebody; it is just the most effective way to improve the quality of racing. I feel we can quickly get much better league racing, there are just a few "elements" that needs to be removed or improved to put it nicely
Bottom line, we have a lot of patients with drivers that are interested in improving and learning, while the opposite is the case for those drivers who seems uninterested in e.g. submitting an insightful incident review or reading the incident report from the Race Director.
On a different note, I think the best medicine our league can get now that all are driving in the same division is to try to minimize that gap between the fastest and slowest. At Monaco this was 4,5 seconds while currently it is 3,3 seconds at Interlagos. Sharing setups is one way to improve this gap, being helpful in general another.
The sharing of setups have unfortunatly had a declining development. Almost halfway to the next race only I and Anthony have posted anything, I must say I am disappointed. The idea was that we all can be open about what we think, wing settings etc, so that we know we are roughly on the right page when it comes to race setups and can rather focus on our driving (which we all can agree is important for the race quality). Posting a setup shortly before a race is for me personally of no value. I need to get used to a setup from the start, and I only do minor adjustments the last week before race. If I am to do 1 hour of stable racing without mistakes I cannot be unexperiensed with the setup I use.
Remember, at the end of the day it is the 20-25 drivers racing the race that are responsible for making it into a good experience!
I think what we should do is what the majority of our racers think is a good idea (although it helps that I too think it is a good idea). Some might find it sacrilegious to suddenly start the championship all over, but I actually found Reik's proposal very refreshing. Any other thoughts around this?
Frans mentions that this would not have been a problem if those who sign up actually show for the race. I can tell you that after 5 seasons this has always been a problem, but it is a problem we can tend to. This is exactly why this season several things are mandatory, such as:
Reading all info from Race Director
Reading and understanding the Race Document
Handing in a well done incident review after each race
Read the drivers meetings thread and try to participate in the forum.
Putting in a competitive online time well before race day
It is a great correlation between these factors and attendance. I usually know roughly who will show and who will not show just from observing these parameters. For each round we are getting closer to where we should be, where 100% of the members do their part of the job (all of it).
Now it is 13 hours past the deadline and I have received race reports from all but David Turnbull, Janek Grabowski and Nicolas Rouge. In addition it is obvious that all racers do not read the information they should before the race, or what do you think Frans?
My point is that it has taken us 5 seasons, learning as we are going, how to host such a league (no past experience) but now we are very close to have fully adapted a system (based around "The Document") which should give us much more stability.
So the rules are simple and fair I think. Doing your part contributes to making the league move forward (safer, better and more consistant), not doing so is creating obstacles for reaching our goals and is not fair to the rest.
I will spend some time with the Monaco replay and try to point out where drivers have room for improvements. As I have said before, it is important that we all are "syncronised" so that our actions will become predictable for all. This has nothing to do with raising the finger at somebody; it is just the most effective way to improve the quality of racing. I feel we can quickly get much better league racing, there are just a few "elements" that needs to be removed or improved to put it nicely
Bottom line, we have a lot of patients with drivers that are interested in improving and learning, while the opposite is the case for those drivers who seems uninterested in e.g. submitting an insightful incident review or reading the incident report from the Race Director.
On a different note, I think the best medicine our league can get now that all are driving in the same division is to try to minimize that gap between the fastest and slowest. At Monaco this was 4,5 seconds while currently it is 3,3 seconds at Interlagos. Sharing setups is one way to improve this gap, being helpful in general another.
The sharing of setups have unfortunatly had a declining development. Almost halfway to the next race only I and Anthony have posted anything, I must say I am disappointed. The idea was that we all can be open about what we think, wing settings etc, so that we know we are roughly on the right page when it comes to race setups and can rather focus on our driving (which we all can agree is important for the race quality). Posting a setup shortly before a race is for me personally of no value. I need to get used to a setup from the start, and I only do minor adjustments the last week before race. If I am to do 1 hour of stable racing without mistakes I cannot be unexperiensed with the setup I use.
Remember, at the end of the day it is the 20-25 drivers racing the race that are responsible for making it into a good experience!
Race Report ( Turn 1 Report) from Per Andersen
Before i start my long report on my long and exhausting race, i will first apologise to the people that got involved in my incident.
It may seem like i started a crash derby..
I started good of the line and felt in good controll, but as different from other tracks, Monaco tends to give some framerate issues when we have a lot of cars on it. Still i felt i had good controll into turn 1, but that was not the case as i suddenly started to climb some tyres in front of me. Im not blaming my frame rate, but it was an addition that made me misjudge the speed of the car in front. I have been away from my race07 pc since wednesday, so i havent had a look at the replay to see what adittional damage i made.
So for the guys involved, im truly sorry..
I will keep a couple of millimeter distance the next time.
Per Andersen
Before i start my long report on my long and exhausting race, i will first apologise to the people that got involved in my incident.
It may seem like i started a crash derby..
I started good of the line and felt in good controll, but as different from other tracks, Monaco tends to give some framerate issues when we have a lot of cars on it. Still i felt i had good controll into turn 1, but that was not the case as i suddenly started to climb some tyres in front of me. Im not blaming my frame rate, but it was an addition that made me misjudge the speed of the car in front. I have been away from my race07 pc since wednesday, so i havent had a look at the replay to see what adittional damage i made.
So for the guys involved, im truly sorry..
I will keep a couple of millimeter distance the next time.
Per Andersen
Reik Major
Premium
Nico, thx you like my idea with a new startup.
I think it could help to get more attention on this debate if you make a new thread, because not everyone will have a look into this "Monaco-Thread"...
I think it could help to get more attention on this debate if you make a new thread, because not everyone will have a look into this "Monaco-Thread"...
I'll do it tomorrow, in case there are some more viewpoints before I suggest this highly liberal idea in a thread
I'm curious to see what the guys that follow this thread thinks of it.And for those who have no idea what we are talking about, it is if the best solution is to "start over" the championship with the Monaco race, making that the first of 5 races with a merged division.
David Turnbull
PrestoGP Veteran
whatever is decided ill go with, i enjoy the competition with fellow drivers, so starting again or continueing is fine with me.
Tim McIver
PrestoGP Veteran
I'm not in favour of the start again idea. I've been fighting hard to win this championship for three seasons now. The battle with Chris was epic last season. This season Reik has dominated, and if anyone but Reik is to come away as presto champion then they are going to have to come up with a pretty amazing end to the season. In the seasons I have watched Ventis, Arno and Chris have been very worthy champions, I think the next in that line should have worked for it for a whole season.
That said, I do agree with Nico's basic philosophy that we are here to race and race as close as possible, so I'm happy to sacrifice all sorts of things to that end. I should also say It is very good of Reik to be on board with the 'start again' idea considering his powerful points standing. (Is it possible for the points ladder to be updated? I think its two races behind now).
As always I'm happy to go with the majority or decision of those who have put time and energy into making presto presto. And starting from zero would give me a good sniff at getting across the line first! but I don't think I would quite feel like I had joined the lineup of champions.
Tim.
That said, I do agree with Nico's basic philosophy that we are here to race and race as close as possible, so I'm happy to sacrifice all sorts of things to that end. I should also say It is very good of Reik to be on board with the 'start again' idea considering his powerful points standing. (Is it possible for the points ladder to be updated? I think its two races behind now).
As always I'm happy to go with the majority or decision of those who have put time and energy into making presto presto. And starting from zero would give me a good sniff at getting across the line first! but I don't think I would quite feel like I had joined the lineup of champions.
Tim.
First I'd like to say that I think Nico is doing a great job organizing this league. The effort going into this is enormous, just think of going through the incident reports, finding the incidents and ajudicating them, and that is just one small piece.
I was tortoising my way to the top part of the table in Division two. It has been enjoyable and I have felt that hanging in there, avoiding trouble and being as consistent as I can I have earned my points. I will lose that with the merger. After the merger even if I survive in what is now an even more "hostile environment" I will not get any points. Never mind, I am not crying over that. I have had my fun. I have a new challenge ahead. Regarding Div. 2 points halving them is more than generous for me, as I have looked at total race times in Div 1 and 2 and I believe my 3rd place finishes in Div 2 would have left me out of the points in Div 1. My guess is that only the race winners and guys finishing within 10-20 seconds of that would have had chance of any points in Div 1.
Monaco was a shock, and as has been mentioned it was an unlucky choice of merger venue. I believe we will not have such problems racing at more open tracks. I also think that next time at Monaco we will be better prepared and hopefully more able to deal with it.
One thing that made it hard for the guys being lapped is that we were probably being "too considerate". We didnt want to be in the way. If a guy is trying to pass "in the pits" (while someone else is pitting) then being caught behind a backmarker could spoil your race. But then, such is racing.
There are those in real-life Formula 1 and here that feel that people who can be as much as 4 seconds behind do not belong. Believe me the slow guys are acutely aware of those drivers opinions. The league will just have to decide what they want to do about it. A bigger field with more spread or a smaller elite field with maximum time pre-race qualification. Beware, pre-race qualification lies! Being able to do a low time in qual setup pre-race is no guarantee that you will be able to do consistent laps in race.
There is another factor that affects the "time before meeting backmarkers". On a 1.30 lap you should be able to do about 20 laps before meeting backmarkers. But that is greatly reduced by incidents. Those incidents include backmarker incidents of course, but I believe backmarkers get held up disproportionately by front and midfield incidents, (yes even backmarkers love to blame other people ). Monaco was a perfect illustration of this, and again this is worse on a narrow track. Standing patiently at the back of the T1 accident cost me 15 seconds (from the replay). Specially first lap incidents allow leaders to build very large leads and tailenders are hurt by all of them which reduces the time to being lapped.
We dont have safety cars to close the field up again and I dont have a solution to this except to drive more carefully reducing incidents, and to encourage people to keep the track clear when they have had an incident.
I completely agree with Nico regarding sharing setups. If you guys want a closer field post your race setups. Qually setups you can keep as secret as you want. Giving tips about where time is lost on a track would also probably be more useful for the back markers than your rivals at the front.
To sum up:
1. Don't worry about Div 2 points - whatever you decide we can live with.
2. If you allow us to drive learn to live with us and we will learn to live with you.
3. More care is required to avoid incidents all the way up to the front of the field
4. If you are in an incident, unblock the track as fast as possible, if necessary get OFF track, and dont reenter at more than a 30 degree angle.
5. Post race setups, give racetrack tips - where time is lost.
I was tortoising my way to the top part of the table in Division two. It has been enjoyable and I have felt that hanging in there, avoiding trouble and being as consistent as I can I have earned my points. I will lose that with the merger. After the merger even if I survive in what is now an even more "hostile environment" I will not get any points. Never mind, I am not crying over that. I have had my fun. I have a new challenge ahead. Regarding Div. 2 points halving them is more than generous for me, as I have looked at total race times in Div 1 and 2 and I believe my 3rd place finishes in Div 2 would have left me out of the points in Div 1. My guess is that only the race winners and guys finishing within 10-20 seconds of that would have had chance of any points in Div 1.
Monaco was a shock, and as has been mentioned it was an unlucky choice of merger venue. I believe we will not have such problems racing at more open tracks. I also think that next time at Monaco we will be better prepared and hopefully more able to deal with it.
One thing that made it hard for the guys being lapped is that we were probably being "too considerate". We didnt want to be in the way. If a guy is trying to pass "in the pits" (while someone else is pitting) then being caught behind a backmarker could spoil your race. But then, such is racing.
There are those in real-life Formula 1 and here that feel that people who can be as much as 4 seconds behind do not belong. Believe me the slow guys are acutely aware of those drivers opinions. The league will just have to decide what they want to do about it. A bigger field with more spread or a smaller elite field with maximum time pre-race qualification. Beware, pre-race qualification lies! Being able to do a low time in qual setup pre-race is no guarantee that you will be able to do consistent laps in race.
There is another factor that affects the "time before meeting backmarkers". On a 1.30 lap you should be able to do about 20 laps before meeting backmarkers. But that is greatly reduced by incidents. Those incidents include backmarker incidents of course, but I believe backmarkers get held up disproportionately by front and midfield incidents, (yes even backmarkers love to blame other people
). Monaco was a perfect illustration of this, and again this is worse on a narrow track. Standing patiently at the back of the T1 accident cost me 15 seconds (from the replay). Specially first lap incidents allow leaders to build very large leads and tailenders are hurt by all of them which reduces the time to being lapped.We dont have safety cars to close the field up again and I dont have a solution to this except to drive more carefully reducing incidents, and to encourage people to keep the track clear when they have had an incident.
I completely agree with Nico regarding sharing setups. If you guys want a closer field post your race setups. Qually setups you can keep as secret as you want. Giving tips about where time is lost on a track would also probably be more useful for the back markers than your rivals at the front.
To sum up:
1. Don't worry about Div 2 points - whatever you decide we can live with.
2. If you allow us to drive learn to live with us and we will learn to live with you.
3. More care is required to avoid incidents all the way up to the front of the field
4. If you are in an incident, unblock the track as fast as possible, if necessary get OFF track, and dont reenter at more than a 30 degree angle.
5. Post race setups, give racetrack tips - where time is lost.
Reik Major
Premium
@Tim:
Don't make me ashamed mate! I'd like both possible scenarios:
1. Go on with the already earned points and hopefully grap the title. (I don't want to say it's already certaibn i get it!)
2. Start up from Monaco with a new championship, giving everyone a new chance. Would have the nice side effect, that good drivers like you, who didn't have much time in the beginning of the season, would also get their chance.
@Graham:
I completely understand your points and as I said before, their'll always be winners and loosers in such a process. But finally we all (the commited drivers) are more winners than loosers, because thanks to the not so commited guys we now have all drivers in one division, offering more interesting races.
We can't take Monaco as a reference about what happens if you merge Div.1 and Div.2. The same incident on another track would have influenced 3 cars or so and regular lapping would have begun from the middle of the race or so (and never that often!)
Last season in the FPWS we also had 2 divisions with each ~20 drivers for the whole season. Already in the more professional Div.1 ther was a usual time spread ~3-6 seconds. But the high level of race etiquette made it not to be a problem. I think it's also possible for us, because the standard increased very, very much from the 1st race untill now. So the key is to reduce incidents at all, than normal lapping won't be a problem...
Don't make me ashamed mate!
I'd like both possible scenarios:1. Go on with the already earned points and hopefully grap the title. (I don't want to say it's already certaibn i get it!)
2. Start up from Monaco with a new championship, giving everyone a new chance. Would have the nice side effect, that good drivers like you, who didn't have much time in the beginning of the season, would also get their chance.
@Graham:
I completely understand your points and as I said before, their'll always be winners and loosers in such a process. But finally we all (the commited drivers) are more winners than loosers, because thanks to the not so commited guys we now have all drivers in one division, offering more interesting races.
We can't take Monaco as a reference about what happens if you merge Div.1 and Div.2. The same incident on another track would have influenced 3 cars or so and regular lapping would have begun from the middle of the race or so (and never that often!)
Last season in the FPWS we also had 2 divisions with each ~20 drivers for the whole season. Already in the more professional Div.1 ther was a usual time spread ~3-6 seconds. But the high level of race etiquette made it not to be a problem. I think it's also possible for us, because the standard increased very, very much from the 1st race untill now. So the key is to reduce incidents at all, than normal lapping won't be a problem...
This kind of describes exactly what I feel as well. There are two sides to the matter as Tim have described neatly in two paragraphs. In his third paragraph he sais "(...)but I don't think I would quite feel like I had joined the lineup of champions.", and that kind of sums it up.
I'm leaning towards not starting over, and what should be done with the points my countryman Graham articulated much better than me:
iow I agree that halving them is too generous
We'll find out what is fair (remember, several div 1 guys will be passed by div 2 guys on the table, so I think it is importent to find the correct formula)
Sorry Reik. I did like your idea, but Tim reminded me that it would be a little "crime" the the Presto legacy.
Jim Hawley
PrestoGP Veteran
Just thinking outa the box here,
How about the div 1 & 2 points remain and we continue to race as two divs within one, but... to make it interesting from the next race till the season end we have a little overall comp running along side, so div1, div 2 and the combined championship which starts next race?
just a thought
Jim
How about the div 1 & 2 points remain and we continue to race as two divs within one, but... to make it interesting from the next race till the season end we have a little overall comp running along side, so div1, div 2 and the combined championship which starts next race?
just a thought
Jim
Reik Major
Premium
Hey, no problem at all.
I'm only one opinion here and finally take things like they are decided by those guys, who organice this great pleassure for us. So just make your call without worrying...Sounds nice, especially the Div.2 guys could have their motivation by takeing points away from the Div.1 guys, without influencing their championship as it is so far. But I also think that it is more (maybe too much) work for the staff and finally the most simple system creates the most fun. This would make it too complex.
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