Season 21 Car Vote

David Turnbull · Mar 5, 2019

Hi guys,

As you know we have postponed season 21 and will start again when we have chose a car that we would like to go on with. The season will be shorter obviously this time due to the time it will take to sort out what we are doing and having another sign up for the rebooted season.

Vale has been very kind to do some testing for us and has come up with a very interesting mod that we can use which would allow us much more varying options and strategies if it were to be chosen as the new car, it also gets us (nearly) upto date with currant Formula 1.

The 2 choices we will have are....

Mclaren MP4/8 - Downloadable from Steam workshop

ASR F1 2018 - Downloadable from here ----> Click

We will leave this vote up for a while to see what happens, if after a reasonable amount of time we dont have a clear winner then myself and Vale will choose what we feel is best for Presto going forward.

There will be a server up with both mods running on the same track, you can test at your leisure and try and give your thoughts on what you vote for.... the main criteria will be....

Is it right for Presto?
Will it attract new members?
Does it offer easy(ish) setups but still be challenging?
Are you prepared to join most races (if possible) with your chosen mod?
Will it have some form of longevity?

its obviously hard to answer some of these but it gives you an idea of what we are looking for.

get your votes in

Valerio Vinassa · Mar 6, 2019

The McLaren everyone of us know but i have only a suggetsion about F1-2018 there is more power on rear in this cars regard at FR 3,5 i found an help to drive when i set engine mixture on low,the car becomes more drivable, here the throttle have an high sensitivity, for me

Raymond van Soest · Mar 6, 2019

I will test the f1 2018 somewhere this week and cast my vote. One thing the mclaren has though is traction control, which could help new drivers. Curious about the f1 2018 though

David Turnbull · Mar 6, 2019

we dont allow any driver aids, only autoclutch

Raymond van Soest · Mar 6, 2019

I know David, but there is a setup parameter in the mclaren, as traction control was actually used in that car. So the driver aid is still off in that case

Andrew Hollom · Mar 6, 2019

Well, I've done a few laps with each (using my Mid Ohio setup for the MP4/8 and the stock setup on the 2018 F1 car with only small changes (like turning the steering lock up and taking some fuel out), and I have a few questions.

Does the 2018 car have KERS, and if so, how do you use it? There's a "Temporary boost", "Power demand", "Increment boost" and "Decrement boost", and I've mapped the first two, but they seem to do nothing.

If we were to use the 2018 F1 car, I assume we'll be allowed to remove that ugly halo thing, which I find a huge distraction? In the 2005 F1 series I'm participating in, the car I drive (the Williams) has a huge pitot/static probe, which I wish just wasn't there (you can't see a car directly in front of you if it's more than a second ahead - grrr!).

Finally, while I generally do all my own setups, I haven't yet fiddled with the 2018 F1 car, so has anyone done so, and if so, does it respond in a logical manner to changes? I'll find out soon myself, but other opinions are always welcome.

David Turnbull · Mar 6, 2019

I'm sure youd get used to the halo just like they have in real life, I'd be for using it so as to simulate what happens in real life.

Dont think Rf2 has kers support, I may be wrong though?

Andrew Hollom · Mar 6, 2019

Wouldn't KERS be something handled within the physical model of the car and its deployment bound to some rFactor control?

If we vote for the 2018 F1 car, will we be free to either use the halo or not? Indeed, is it a parameter that the server can enforce?

David Turnbull · Mar 6, 2019

If its a parameter that can be enforced then it will be enforced that we WILL use the halo.

the whole point of a sim is to simulate real life and if we want an upto date F1 car then we need to use the halo, its really as simple as that. Some people didnt like the DRS in Renault 3.5 and wont like it in F1 2018 or real life but you cant just take it away when its part of the car and rules to have it.

If it isnt an enforceable parameter then you would be expected to use it wether you liked it or not.

The easiest thing to do here is make a list of pros and cons of the mods and use this when you come to make your choice of what car to choose obviously your first con would be the halo in F1 2018.

regard Kers, I'm sure I read before it wasnt simulated in Rf2 but I'm not 100% sure on that, someone more knowledgable might be able to help here.

Andrew Hollom · Mar 6, 2019

So why don't you disallow the use of additional mirrors and the look behind view, things that the real cars being simulated don't have. The reason is that they are there to make the already hard task of driving a virtual car a bit easier and so that we have fewer accidents, but we think it's okay to enforce an obstruction to our view!

David Turnbull · Mar 6, 2019

I personally dont use either because I like it to be as realistic as possible, but as you say in the interests of safety these options are there, be thankfull we dont still race with Race07 where you were in a virtual helmet and you only had a letterbox to see out from.

I go with what the real drivers say about the halo, that at first they thought the same as you, that the view would be blocked and it would be unsafe, but after a weekend of driving mostly changed their views on it and said it actually doesnt make any real diffrence, Vettel was the biggest complainer and then had the biggest about turn when he realised it didnt take long to adjust.

I also think that if you take away too much realism we'd be as well playing the F1 games from codemasters (where incidentaly youd be using halo too), I want the league to be as close to real F1 as possible, If I had my way it would be exactly like a full race weekend with a 70 lap race at the end but I know that the amount of practise this would take and the risk of having it all ruined in 1 corner is too much so we do the 2 races to give 2 chances at a decent race.

Like I said add it to your cons list you dont need to vote for it if it causes you so many problems.

Raymond van Soest · Mar 7, 2019

One thing to keep in mind with the halo is that it's a lot easier to look past it in 3d than in 2d. Havent had any problems looking past it in vr, but for screen users it's a lot harder.

Andrew Hollom · Mar 7, 2019

I know Vettel whines a lot, and I know that’s what I’m doing now, but he has no choice - it’s his job and the device is there as part of the rules, its sole justification being improved safety - he cannot get away from that. However, safety is no concern of mine, as a wheel is unlikely to fly through my monitor, and I’m also unlikely to get my lower legs mangled in a crash, etc. Consequently, I have no qualms about driving cars without a halo or where my legs are part of the crumple zone (I also don’t enhance the reality by wearing a helmet and fireproof overalls). I didn’t mention it in my first whine, but I did imagine having to use a letterbox view that simulates a helmet (and the new F1 approved helmets have even smaller apertures!) and thought that having to do so would be really silly. Also, in real life, the drivers have binocular vision and so with the two points of view can effectively see through the central pillar, and as Raymond pointed out, this is the case if VR is used, but with a monitor, I effectively have one eye right on the car’s centre-line. I’d be happier if this could be mimicked somehow, like making it translucent, for monitor users.

There are probably lots of things people do that fail to mirror reality, like removing shadows so they can see the track better, turning the tyre noise up so they can sense how close to the limit they are, turning the driver’s arms off so they can see ahead with lock on, etc. My opinion is that we should accept that what we are doing is not real and that we should compromise in such a manner that the enjoyment of what we do is enhanced, and this is an individual thing (I only turn the tyre noise up).

Life is a line drawing exercise and since this is your league, it’s up to you where the realism line is drawn. I do something else that may cross your line, but which doesn’t cross mine - I only drive in cockpit view, but in another league we have a formation lap, and since I cannot see where the grid box lines are when I get close, I switch to the external view to line myself up, at which point I go back to the cockpit view for the start (there’s also a very unrealistic flashing red box on the road so that I don’t have to remember which grid box is mine!). I actually quite like the formation lap as the race’s prelude, but accurately positioning my car in its starting box is not the reason. For me, the fun is in the driving experience - about the interaction between me and the controls and how they influence the behaviour of the car in relation to those I'm racing against, so I enjoy a manual clutch and even an H-pattern shifter, as these can enhance the realism in a useful and fun manner, but things like a halo just get in the way. I’d like a VR headset, and when I get one my view may change (excuse the pun).

I know we’re going to have to agree to disagree, but for me, the halo should be optional. After all, do you really think you’d be disadvantaged if you used it and others didn’t?

David Turnbull · Mar 7, 2019

lets have a vote.....

Does Andrew whine alot? +1

Does Andrew not whine alot? 0

I honestly get what your saying and Raymonds post made it a bit better explained in sim racing terms for me, and I can see the points made, it may be best to let you decide to use it or not as you mention would it give any real advantages not using it over someone who is? I dont think so, so I am open to that possibility so for the folks who want to use it for realism then they can, for the folks who dont then they dont need to.

MOOOOOOOOOSCHT · Mar 10, 2019

I am still undecided

The more I drive the ASR the more I like it, but only with disabled Halo and engine sound of the V10.
But this car is very fast and I don`t know if my old body gets through this

Andrew Hollom · Mar 10, 2019

I, like you Martin, am undecided also. I like the rawness of the MP4/8, but the F1 ASR 2018 is also quite drive-able and fun. I, unlike you Martin, find them both equally taxing to drive.

The balance of the MP4/8 is good and it's easy to tune and, like the FR 3.5, I get equal tyre wear front to rear. However, the ASR seems to eat front tyres, and I've found this hard to tune out (it gets quite tail happy as you approach balanced wear). I can get about 12 laps on the hyper softs, but the rears still have life left in them, so has anyone got truly good balance out of the ASR car yet, and if you have, can you post your setup please?

I guess we'll find out on Wednesday how the tyres wear in a race, so long as it's 15 laps or more.