SEASON 12 Race 3 SEPANG INCIDENT REPORT

When you mentioned it the outlap was unusually slow. I slotted in behind Jim who is faster than me, but it felt like someone further ahead was out of place. I'll check the replay :)

EDIT: Nothing too crazy, but Guus lined up ahead of David, Sean and Reik and Julius lined up ahead of Jim, Tim and Peter. I think Reik made a mistake as well on the outlap that caused further slowing down.

I've been thinking a little.

The reason why Im being as specific as below is because 1) Hours of qualy practice laps are put in. 2) The outcome of the qualy makes such a huge difference to level of enjoyment 3) I was lacking 2 nights of good sleep during the qualy so I ignited when I couldnt get a second 1-timed lap since my first got ruined (ruined because I went mad by being passed just before start-finish line and lost 1 second or so on stupid mistakes, I thought then, which I now can realize not was that bad, but still, for all participants sake Im concerned).

First. Should we say something about how to lign up at the red lights? Now people go either as cops or bandites (okok, In this example, I think of cops as they should be)

Second. How to handle the issue if first at red light manages 2 x 1-timed laps but the 5th - 6th (or 15-25th for that matter) cars do not? Even if they all do it optimized.

Third: Both above depends on in what garage one's happened to be placed.


Probably Im still lacking sleep...
 
I have no incidents I wish to report.

A remark to those it concerns:
Do not brake behind unless you are sure that you can avoid contact. Don't be so aero towing greedy:) Use your own line if you want to attack.

i am sry valter. i can remember that i was behind you for 2 or 3 laps in the end where i tried everything to overtake you because i knew i was a little bit faster and nicolas was coming for me :D i am just happy you didnt spun or something like that. there were 3 or 4 occasions when i made an optimistic move and i think i touched you two times. sry for that.

those last laps were sick :)
place 9-12 all 4 finished inside 3 seconds! awesome final laps.

9.Valter Ostman1:07:36.610
10.Nicolas Rouge1:07:37.772
11.Julius Fahlbusch1:07:38.121
12.Bob Miley 1:07:39.505
:laugh:



TS 971 - LAP 8

sorry Julius:(
I was way too optimistic in lap 8
and hit you at the rear so you spun.
I apologize and I have been waiting for you until you were gone again:(
it was not intentional !

hope I'll see you and everyone else in the next race ;)


dont worry about that bob. its racing and stuff like that happens. good thing is it wasnt a race ending incident and i lost only 4-5 seconds i guess, and the fact that you waited for me made clear that it wasnt your intention. i still had a totally amazing race and probably the most fun since joining this league.

:)
 
First. Should we say something about how to lign up at the red lights? Now people go either as cops or bandites (okok, In this example, I think of cops as they should be)

Second. How to handle the issue if first at red light manages 2 x 1-timed laps but the 5th - 6th (or 15-25th for that matter) cars do not? Even if they all do it optimized.

Third: Both above depends on in what garage one's happened to be placed.

1: We already have, we are supposed to line up according to pace. Usually this works very well. That's why I pointed out that both Julius and Guus seemed to be too far ahead.

2: Personally I do not think we should do anything with this. The way it works now everybody should be able to get one timed lap in if lining correctly up at red light.
EDIT: If everybody line up correctly in the first place then there should be a minimum of time lost for those further back in the line, all cars ahead of them are faster and should not slow them significantly.

3. What garage place you have should be irrelevant, if you want further up the line you need to be quicker.
 
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We are supposed to, but we don't. I have observed though (not last race, but others) that a few fast drivers decide to stay and exit rather late because they only want one timed lap.

As one of the drivers that should exit last, this ends up being a struggle for me. I do not want to wait until the very last car, because I want to put in a couple of timed laps (I suck at qualy). On the other hand, I do not want to exit before a much faster car than I.

After botching a couple of Q's for the pressure of having somebody catching up on me during the lap, I decided I will wait about 30 s to exit, let people behind me pass during the outlap if I recognize they are very fast, but once I start the timed laps I just don't look back.
 
nicos right, we have been through this and mainly its been working very well (edit: didnt see albertos post so ill say its been working very well in the front half of the grid) just there was maybe 1 or 2 out of position at sepang, when i started my outlap i had 2 or 3 cars in front, but all were around same pace as me with hotlaps so i hung there and waited to get a gap at the end of the outlap, i think reik had a moment and i thought about passing but then hung back again, during this there was a black car behind me, nico? jim? julius? who stayed pretty close all the way, when i started my hotlap i had plenty gap in front that id saved on the last straight, behind the black car was nearly on me into t1 and t2 with slipstream, it made it nervy having to watch the mirrors and then i made a mistake in t5 and quit instantly and went again, the next outlap i just stayed out of peoples way and worked a gap so that i had nothing in front of me for my hotlap.

i think this way makes it far more worthwhile than superpole, need to think about a lot more during these sessions and my god it doesnt half get the heart racing and addrenelin pumping :)
 
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We are supposed to, but we don't. I have observed though (not last race, but others) that a few fast drivers decide to stay and exit rather late because they only want one timed lap.

As one of the drivers that should exit last, this ends up being a struggle for me. I do not want to wait until the very last car, because I want to put in a couple of timed laps (I suck at qualy). On the other hand, I do not want to exit before a much faster car than I.

First of all this needs to be reported, this is the first time I hear it, and what you describe is not how it is supposed to work.

I don't understand why someone would chose not to line up as it is the optimal qualify strategy. One are not allowed to disturb cars ahead. It is really the same rule for all, but those who line up don't have this problem as those ahead are faster anyway.

I want to remind everyone that reporting problems from the event is a vital part of how PrestoGP works. @Julius Fahlbusch and @Guus Verver should reply to the out-of-order in qualify issue. It might be that they are not aware of that possibly unwritten rule, as always we are only looking to improve/evolve, not blaming or punishing.
 
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... during this there was a black car behind me, nico? jim? julius? who stayed pretty close all the way, when i started my hotlap i had plenty gap in front that id saved on the last straight, behind the black car was nearly on me into t1 and t2 with slipstream, it made it nervy having to watch the mirrors and then i made a mistake in t5 ...

oh damn, that was me. i didnt think about that it might make you nervy. i had no intention to attack you. i just saw the opportunity to get some drag on the first straight and maybe gain one or two tenth. i knew you are 1-2 seconds faster on a hotlap than me thats why i thought it shouldnt be a problem. seeing you making a mistake and crashing out i didnt think much about it. at that point i was to concentrated on my own lap.
thinking about it now i guess it could get me nervous if someone is so close behind me.

sry for that.
 
I want to remind everyone that reporting problems from the event is a vital part of how PrestoGP works. @Julius Fahlbusch and @Guus Verver should reply to the out-of-order in qualify issue. It might be that they are not aware of that possibly unwritten rule, as always we are only looking to improve/evolve, not blaming or punishing.

i am sry. i really wasnt aware of it. until now. how are we supposed to line up? i thought the one who is there first can go first?!
 
I have always attempted to get out as soon as possible to start in front because I have had bad experiences with having cars in front of me in qualy. I dont think I ever caused anyone trouble since im usually on similar pace of the front guys. I can slot in behind the top 3 next time if thats the way we do it now.
I dont think we should force it like this, it brings a lot of excitement trying to get yourself some room on track.
 
i like to just work it out in my head by hotlap pace from the presto times page, if i think of the hotlap times then if i go out and see sean, reik and you at the front of you line and yous have all been faster than me in hotlap practise ill slot in 4th and hold position and make a gap, if i feel im quite a bit faster than you or reik or sean ill try slot in accordingly and repeat the same, hold position and make a gap.

thats just the way i tend to do it though, probably not everyones way, nicos best to explain the proper way.
 
Haven't had any problems at the back. I'm one of the last to start outlap and i've had plenty of time to do two attempts in one outing. Trying to make two in separate outings is just too much stress and luck... I have watched from track map how the pack forms ahead and wondered is there really any reason for it.. But i have the "luxury" of being one the slowest hotlappers in the grid so qualy ain't a big deal anyway for me. Often there has been so much space, like Sepang where apart from couple of us, everyone else were within one sector.. I couldn't live with that much front downforce loss and having to look mirros or car ahead..

I would say, underestimate your qualy pace, you won't run in to problems trying to get the right slot. Of course it depends on the drivers, some don't do banker laps, safe first lap but just go at it already on the outlap to get to right mentality.
 
i am sry. i really wasnt aware of it. until now. how are we supposed to line up? i thought the one who is there first can go first?!
You should line up roughly according to your pace. So that you don't catch up to anyone and don't get caught by anyone unless mistakes are done.

I have always attempted to get out as soon as possible to start in front because I have had bad experiences with having cars in front of me in qualy. I dont think I ever caused anyone trouble since im usually on similar pace of the front guys. I can slot in behind the top 3 next time if thats the way we do it now.
I dont think we should force it like this, it brings a lot of excitement trying to get yourself some room on track.
We don't force an exact order, but a rough one. The goal is what is important, that everyone can go flat out on their timed lap without risking catching up with the guy ahead (and not demanding a large gap). In other words, if there is only a few tenths between you it doesn't matter what order you are in (which is probably the case between Reik, Sean, David and you).

We need to secure everyone at least 1 clean timed lap, this was central when changed from the super pole format.

i like to just work it out in my head by hotlap pace from the presto times page, if i think of the hotlap times then if i go out and see sean, reik and you at the front of you line and yous have all been faster than me in hotlap practise ill slot in 4th and hold position and make a gap, if i feel im quite a bit faster than you or reik or sean ill try slot in accordingly and repeat the same, hold position and make a gap.

thats just the way i tend to do it though, probably not everyones way, nicos best to explain the proper way.
I think you explained it very well David :thumbsup:
 
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Also, make the gap EARLY in the lap, not in the last three corners. Start slowing down, the guy behind you should keep the distance and not try to slot ahead. If everyone does that all the way to the back, there will be no problems (apart from mistakes that'll mix up the slots a bit...). It'll help with the tires too, making those gaps early gets you space to do burnouts when leaving hairpins, at least for me i can keep front tires about where they should be amongst the pack but rear tires need a bit more space on the road.

I don't think this will be a large issue, the choice for going from single hotlap to more traditional qualy was right move. It has increased the interaction between drivers as we see each other more on track, which is the most positive thing to come out of it. Start practice, then qualy beginning, we are all on track at the same time, there is a real sense of working together for a best possible race for all. There is an element of random and chance, those come from mistakes people make.. So one can't expect a clean lap every time, lowering expectations could help ;) So that clean good run is a pleasant surprise instead of it being a certainty.
 
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i am sry valter. i can remember that i was behind you for 2 or 3 laps in the end where i tried everything to overtake you because i knew i was a little bit faster and nicolas was coming for me :D i am just happy you didnt spun or something like that. there were 3 or 4 occasions when i made an optimistic move and i think i touched you two times. sry for that.

those last laps were sick :)
place 9-12 all 4 finished inside 3 seconds! awesome final laps.

9.Valter Ostman1:07:36.610
10.Nicolas Rouge1:07:37.772
11.Julius Fahlbusch1:07:38.121
12.Bob Miley 1:07:39.505
:laugh:






dont worry about that bob. its racing and stuff like that happens. good thing is it wasnt a race ending incident and i lost only 4-5 seconds i guess, and the fact that you waited for me made clear that it wasnt your intention. i still had a totally amazing race and probably the most fun since joining this league.

:)
Thanks for the fight Julius:) One of the best parts of the race. I guess I was driving like the grumpy old man I am. I did what I could to keep you behind. I may have stepped over the line of gentleman style there, sorry if I did:(
You only touched and the car only moved slightly. As you can see in my Incident report, I don't consider it as an incident worth mentioning here. I enjoyed the giving and taking very much.

I'm trying to learn how to preserve the rubber. I try to brake a little bit earlier to avoid locking. For a following driver that could be difficult to deal with I imagine. The usual violent braking style I'm used to wears out the tires too fast.
 
Incident with Gus as he said, mistakes happen all we can do is try to be more cautious and possible avoiding action where we can, np tho apology accepted :thumbsup:

Also my game hanged around lap 13 or so 2nd last corner and I did a 2m50 odd secs lap, so must have been there stuck for around 30 40 secs including pit stop at that corner. Hopefully I never caused any problems for anyone else there not quite sure what you guys would have seen of my car there if anything.
 
First of all I'm very sorry if my out lap mistake caused a traffic jam. I didn't realise it much, because the car behind din't come much closer after this mistake.

I know what Alberto means. In the past I sometimes decided to make one super pole lap when everyone else had left the pits so I would be on my own. I thought this tactical move is clearly noticeable, because ohterwise I would've lined up as quick as possible.

So if a slower driver notices this behavior from a faster driver, he shouldn't worry to go on track, because when it comes to the timed lap, the faster driver shouldn't be allowed to make pressure on the slower driver or in other words, the timing from the fast driver would've been wrong so it would be his punishment to catch up on a slow driver and stay calm behind him.

The slower driver should simply drive his timed lap without a care, as long as he feels, he's on a good lap...
 
Sorry I should have chimed in on this days ago. And I am sorry for ruining your first Q run Peter.

My problem was, I had settled into what I thought was a reasonable gap with you ahead (who I felt was at a similar pace to me) and a car quite close behind I thought I could keep ahead of. I had done a little bit of work establishing the gaps earlier in the lap.

When you slowed on the final straight to give yourself a bit more room in front, suddenly everything behind becomes a coiled spring. So as I felt I was getting squeezed, I just didn't lift and went past you. My other issue was that I wanted to start my timed lap with some rhythm and take the final turn at normal pace.

My understanding of the etiquette is that on the out lap we sort ourselves out generally but if someone's driving slow I think its reasonable to drive on by.

Having said all that, I've come into this one late, so feel free to ignore everything I said!! It seems like its been well discussed and sorted now.

Tim.

(No other incidents to report, though tito did randomly appear in front of me at one terrifying moment, luckly he disappeared as quickly as he appeared.)
 

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